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Report: Drew Brees gets his deal, will make insane money


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I pointed out Brady's superior numbers (and didn't use the dome as part of the equation) for both 2 and 3 years back. Additionally, the fact that you used PFF makes your work useless. Dear God, man, you should be ashamed of yourself for using that site.

When they go in and negotiate a deal the two numbers that are brought up are these:

YPG- 308
% of Saints Offense- 72.8%

The guy throws for a ton of yards. More than Brady. Like Brady he is the teams offense. When they discuss the lower YPC they are going to simply say thats the offense they run in New Orleans, he doesnt have great YAC receivers, and he could throw the ball further if asked. He fits in with what they do.
 
Hes clearly not better career wise, but when looking at a contract that rarely comes into play. Its mainly the "what have you done for me lately" that matters. Anyway this was my old matrix I used a few months back on the valuation of the QBs based on 3 year averages across a few all inclusive metrics to put a fair price on the QBs.

NFL Value Pricing of Quarterbacks

On the dome vs outside argument when it comes to a contract it means almost nothing. Brees plays in a dome and is signed by a team that plays in a dome. Its his worth to the dome team that justifies the contract, not his relative value to a team in the northeast that has to play outside. Denver should be concerned with that when it comes to Manning, but its a non-factor for New Orleans who play at least 9 games a year in a dome.

It's a team game but you never know where you might have to play in the playoffs and while Brees is 5-3 in his career in the post season with NO, all 3 losses came on the road outdoors.

Metrics alone remain fairly meaningless in assessing QB value for a variety of reasons - particularly when the metrics involved are known to be at least somewhat flawed. In the case of PFF they may be flawed to the point of uselessness despite any traction they may have gained courtesy of Peter King and a handful of mediots.

Brady has consistently done more with less, something none of the metrics account for. Since Drew joined NO in 2006, he's thrown 23 more TD's and 44 more INT's than Brady, who missed an entire season. Brees has thrown for more yards, several thousand in one more season - so maybe 3000 more if not for the missed season or about 500 yards per season or 31 yard per game . But they don't award points for yards the way they do for TD's.

Stick to the cap. It's not subjective. Value assessments on the other hand usually are. ;)
 
Interesting timeline leading up to his signing ...daily columns in the N.O. Times-Picayune by the beat reporters...

New Orleans Saints Football NFL News - NOLA.com

three days ago Triplett wrote this piece about Brees and the WR corps there in N.O.

New Orleans Saints receivers are a model of consistency - New Orleans Saints Football NFL News - NOLA.com

Meachem running a sub 4.3 in the 40 post ankle surgery? That IS a very impressive 4 man receiving corps with experience in the Saints system.Colston,Moore and Henderson round out the unit with Arrington in the mix. My limited guess would be the Saints decided to make sure the offense is set up for success going forward and will relegate the defense to a lesser priority level.

"You know, sometimes we take that (depth) for granted," Payton said. "And it's difficult to (maintain) that. (General Manager Mickey Loomis) has done a great job with that.

"It's an unselfish group. They recognize that there's gonna be games where their number's gonna be called more based on the coverage and based on the looks they're getting. And they understand the quarterback they have is gonna find the open guy."

So the legend goes -- Brees' favorite receiver is the open one.


It's not my money, and I'm not sophisticated in the vagaries of pro football contracts, but as someone looking in, it looks like the Saints have decided the face of their franchise going forward the next five years is Brees and that contract reflects it.
 
When they go in and negotiate a deal the two numbers that are brought up are these:

YPG- 308
% of Saints Offense- 72.8%

The guy throws for a ton of yards. More than Brady. Like Brady he is the teams offense. When they discuss the lower YPC they are going to simply say thats the offense they run in New Orleans, he doesnt have great YAC receivers, and he could throw the ball further if asked. He fits in with what they do.

You didn't say "Brees has thrown for more yards during the past 3 seasons". You said Brees was better. The first would have been correct. The second is not.

And any team that is stupid enough to pay a QB solely based upon those two numbers should probably be shut down for stupidity. YPG is a particularly foolish QB stat to base salary on.
 
My eyes tell me Rogers, Brady, Peyton Manning, Brees.

Brees played behind the best o-line of the 4, and had the best weapons around him and played in a dome.
 
When I hear all these figures and other commentary, they are just numbers, but here is what I care about..

Since Tom Brady has been our QB:

we have gone to the playoffs 9 of the 11 years...
been to the Superbowl 5 times and won 3 times...

These are the best years that I have had in my 50+ years of athletic fandom..

That is all I need to know, and all I need to care about..
 
It's a team game but you never know where you might have to play in the playoffs and while Brees is 5-3 in his career in the post season with NO, all 3 losses came on the road outdoors.

Metrics alone remain fairly meaningless in assessing QB value for a variety of reasons - particularly when the metrics involved are known to be at least somewhat flawed. In the case of PFF they may be flawed to the point of uselessness despite any traction they may have gained courtesy of Peter King and a handful of mediots.

Brady has consistently done more with less, something none of the metrics account for. Since Drew joined NO in 2006, he's thrown 23 more TD's and 44 more INT's than Brady, who missed an entire season. Brees has thrown for more yards, several thousand in one more season - so maybe 3000 more if not for the missed season or about 500 yards per season or 31 yard per game . But they don't award points for yards the way they do for TD's.

Stick to the cap. It's not subjective. Value assessments on the other hand usually are. ;)

Every metric in sports in flawed and none are perfect. But you need them to come up with numbers for any player. Do other factors come into signing a QB moreso than other positions? Yes they do (see Ryan Fitzpatrick and Matt Cassels contracts), but you have to have a baseline for comparing players. The teams regularly battle over numbers, the supporting casts they have, and what those players mean in the grand scheme of things.

Brees essentially means the same thing to New Orleans as Brady to New England. They are the whole offense. They run similar offenses when you breakdown their pass selections. They have identical regular season records. The Saints run more offensive plays and Brees puts up nutty yardage.

Nobody goes back and looks at stats from 2006 and 2007. If they did Favre would still be in the NFL. Its not a question of who is better for his career. Brees isnt even in the same ballpark as Brady and Manning. He has a terrible playoff record and has his share of losing teams he played on which was never the case for the other two once they got experience under their belt.

Teams, for the most part, look at the prior three years. Where QBs get more of a pass is that they discount injuries much more when signing contracts (Manning, Pennington), whereas its devastating for other positions on the field where they are treated as finished. They also go back and compare statistics when contracts were signed. The real comparison for Brees is Brady post-injury in 2009 and Manning pre-injury in 2010. How much better was Brees when those guys got 18 million dollar deals?

If you wanted to compare Brady in 2007 to Brees today, Brady would still be the highest paid player. New Orleans would not have gone over the 18 million number because there was no way to justify paying Brees the same as Brady, even taking the importance of the player to the team into account. If Rodgers already had a contract extension Brees would have fit somewhere between Brady and Rodgers rather than re-setting the market. I cant recall one agent or anonymously quoted scout/GM in the last few months that said Brees would make less than either Manning or Brady. It was always a given he would get a bigger contract because of those numbers he puts up.

As for PFF, Im not sure why you guys discount it so much. I used their basic pass scoring system for the sake of simplicity but the work they do is actually very good. I adjust alot of their stats for other things, such as pass protection, pass rushing, coverage, etc... but its a good database for numbers, I just think some of their statistical takeaways need adjustments. Their basic grading system is very similar to the way most NFL teams review game film. That doesnt mean its free of flaws (a good/bad play is always going to be subjective especially without knowing the playcall, and rating players per play rather than an aggregate total would normalize the numbers better) but its a tool that can be used to take a bigger overall look at a player.
 
Every metric in sports in flawed and none are perfect. But you need them to come up with numbers for any player. Do other factors come into signing a QB moreso than other positions? Yes they do (see Ryan Fitzpatrick and Matt Cassels contracts), but you have to have a baseline for comparing players. The teams regularly battle over numbers, the supporting casts they have, and what those players mean in the grand scheme of things.

OK. Brady generally loses the supporting cast battle from an overall talent supporting cast standpoint. That translates into a win comparatively speaking for the purposes of assessing his value.

Brees essentially means the same thing to New Orleans as Brady to New England. They are the whole offense. They run similar offenses when you breakdown their pass selections. They have identical regular season records. The Saints run more offensive plays and Brees puts up nutty yardage.

Both take what the defense gives them yardage wise. What that yardage translates to, however, is what really matters.

Nobody goes back and looks at stats from 2006 and 2007. If they did Favre would still be in the NFL. Its not a question of who is better for his career. Brees isnt even in the same ballpark as Brady and Manning. He has a terrible playoff record and has his share of losing teams he played on which was never the case for the other two once they got experience under their belt.

OK. I'm good to go on last 3 even including Brady's rebound season from the ACL. Brady's consistency is part of his value. He plays well in all settings. He plays well hurt. Brees may not be hurt as often, but when he is the wheels fall off the wagon to a greater extent. Durability matters, but in a league where almost everyone is hurting on some level over the course of a season, how well you play through that is part of the durability assessment.

Teams, for the most part, look at the prior three years. Where QBs get more of a pass is that they discount injuries much more when signing contracts (Manning, Pennington), whereas its devastating for other positions on the field where they are treated as finished. They also go back and compare statistics when contracts were signed. The real comparison for Brees is Brady post-injury in 2009 and Manning pre-injury in 2010. How much better was Brees when those guys got 18 million dollar deals?

You're mistake here is in comparing Brady in 2009 when his deal was signed in 2011 - making 2010 his year to which Brees 2011 season should be compared. Brady didn't throw for a ton of yards in 2010, but he somehow managed to be league MVP too. And looking at a pure stats adjusted for level of opponent metric, as FO does with their stats, Brady ranked #1 in both DYAR and DVOA that year. Brees at the same time ranked 5th and 12th. That was his 22 pick season, something Brady has never approached no matter what injuries or circumstances he was being asked to play through.

In fact over the all important last 3 years Brady has ranked more consistently (always within the top 3 in DYAR and DVOA) if not always higher than Brees. And in an offense otherwise in the midst of personnel flux and transition being asked to front a defense being overhauled in full blown transition... Brees has ranked as low as 12th in DVOA in 2010 and outside the top 3 in DYAR in 2009 and 2010.

Meanwhile, impressive as Rogers has emerged to be, he's got to do it for more than two regular seasons and one post season before I rank him ahead of Brady for any meaningful purposes. He was in the top 5 in DYAR and DVOA in 2010, in the 20 in 2009. He's younger but he has yet to prove he can be consistent over the long run. He was abyssmal this post season, not that Brady or Brees are ever perfect. But they've both shown the ability to rebound, either from individual or team performance failures. Rogers is poised to now but he isn't there yet.


If you wanted to compare Brady in 2007 to Brees today, Brady would still be the highest paid player. New Orleans would not have gone over the 18 million number because there was no way to justify paying Brees the same as Brady, even taking the importance of the player to the team into account. If Rodgers already had a contract extension Brees would have fit somewhere between Brady and Rodgers rather than re-setting the market. I cant recall one agent or anonymously quoted scout/GM in the last few months that said Brees would make less than either Manning or Brady. It was always a given he would get a bigger contract because of those numbers he puts up.

I don't put a lot of stock in agent or media speculation or annonymous scout banter because it's largely subjective and/or perception based. And last man up usually tops the position irrespective of actual comparative value. Eli reset the bar in 2009...and he still struggles to crack most pundits top 5's, while back then aside from the ring he struggled to make top 10's. Just like the most recent shiny new QB's drafted used to impact the bar before the new CBA was entered into. Before Brady and Manning did their last deals (in 2011) the media and agents were convinced one or both would top $20M, perhaps by as much as $4-5M. Didn't happen. And anyone who understood the model and where the CBA was headed knew it wouldn't because the model wouldn't sustain it.

As for PFF, Im not sure why you guys discount it so much. I used their basic pass scoring system for the sake of simplicity but the work they do is actually very good. I adjust alot of their stats for other things, such as pass protection, pass rushing, coverage, etc... but its a good database for numbers, I just think some of their statistical takeaways need adjustments. Their basic grading system is very similar to the way most NFL teams review game film. That doesnt mean its free of flaws (a good/bad play is always going to be subjective especially without knowing the playcall, and rating players per play rather than an aggregate total would normalize the numbers better) but its a tool that can be used to take a bigger overall look at a player.

The problem most here have with PFF is it's machinations are based on a bunch of amateur viewers attempting to grade per play assessing broadcast film based on their varying levels of understanding of certain fundamental concepts. I wouldn't use it at all, but if forced to I would weight against it for that reason. I won't get into your own POTY metric as i think it's immaterial in comparing these top tier players (and it passes the sniff test given how closely each of their ratings track - the sniff test PFF fails consistently). Eliminate PFF from your analysis and the players rank Brady, Rogers, and a gap to Brees... That resonates with what my old eyes tell me. These rankings are a snapshot in time, any one may trump the other in a given timeframe, as might a still or again healthy Manning (which is why Denver extended themselves to secure him even at 36 and coming off a potential career threatening injury). Ben and Eli or Rivers could all round out a top 5. Personally I'd give the nod to Eli and Ben based on post season performance, which none of the rankings contemplate. Rivers has pretty consistently outperformed them in the regular season, as had a healthy Peyton. But while you have to get there, once you do it doesn't really matter how you did if you win there or even get there more often than not (comparatively speaking).
 
Florio is reporting that Brees' signing bonus is $37M... If so that will amortize against the cap at $7.4M per. So if his salary this season is $3M to equal that $40m in the first year, his cap hit will drop to $10.4M or so this season. Will make for some whopping cap hits in a couple of years... The cap average would at that point be up to $22.2M per, so any cap hits lower than that beginning next year just ups the ante more on the back end.

Mo - Brees is only making 60 million across the first three years.. If he's making 40 this year, that leaves 10 for each of the next two. That means his cap hit would be 17.4 for 2013 and 2014. Now, to make 40 million across the last 2, he'd have cap hits of 27.4 (20million salary and 7.4 from the signing bonus). But that doesn't happen until 2015. And, they'll either have plenty of cap space or signed him to another extension by then.
 
Mo - Brees is only making 60 million across the first three years.. If he's making 40 this year, that leaves 10 for each of the next two. That means his cap hit would be 17.4 for 2013 and 2014. Now, to make 40 million across the last 2, he'd have cap hits of 27.4 (20million salary and 7.4 from the signing bonus). But that doesn't happen until 2015. And, they'll either have plenty of cap space or signed him to another extension by then.

We covered all that yesterday when I posted the actual cap numbers.

ProFootballTalk‏@ProFootballTalk

Drew Brees cap numbers: $10.4M (2012), $17.4M (2013), $18.4M (2014), $26.4M (2015), $27.4M (2016)


If the cap remains flat through 2014 and only goes up slowly but steadily thereafter, Drew's probably gonna need a couple of phony years added on to the back end of this deal in 3 years.

The problem for NO will remain that with him on a $16.4M tag this season they were down to $2M under the cap and had to let some of their pieces go. And he will retain leverage even in year 4 because of his $14.8M in dead cap...
 
Hes clearly not better career wise, but when looking at a contract that rarely comes into play. Its mainly the "what have you done for me lately" that matters. Anyway this was my old matrix I used a few months back on the valuation of the QBs based on 3 year averages across a few all inclusive metrics to put a fair price on the QBs.

NFL Value Pricing of Quarterbacks

On the dome vs outside argument when it comes to a contract it means almost nothing. Brees plays in a dome and is signed by a team that plays in a dome. Its his worth to the dome team that justifies the contract, not his relative value to a team in the northeast that has to play outside. Denver should be concerned with that when it comes to Manning, but its a non-factor for New Orleans who play at least 9 games a year in a dome.

I have to disagree with your conclusion.

A player isn't worth this kind of money because he can consistently get his team to 13--3 or 12--4.

This is Championship money and, so far, Brees has shown that he can't win outdoors in the Playoffs. If the road to the SB goes through Philly or the Meadowlands or Lambeau or even San Francisco, this is a questionable decision.

What's more, with SB XLVIII outdoors in the northeast, even Number One Seed might not be enough for him.

I can understand why the Saints did this, but, for what it's worth, I think they're overpaying in comparison to Brady or Rodgers. Even moreso because, saddled with these numbers against the cap, Home Field every year in the playoffs won't be a given.
 
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We covered all that yesterday when I posted the actual cap numbers.



ProFootballTalk‏@ProFootballTalk

Drew Brees cap numbers: $10.4M (2012), $17.4M (2013), $18.4M (2014), $26.4M (2015), $27.4M (2016)

Conclusion: Brees and the Saints will pretty much have to be signing a new extension by 2015. Those last two years of cap hits pretty much can't be allowed to happen if they want to stay competitive.
 
I have to disagree with your conclusion.

A player isn't worth this kind of money because he can consistently get his team to 13--3 or 12--4.

This is Championship money and, so far, Brees has shown that he can't win outdoors in the Playoffs. If the road to the SB goes through Philly or the Meadowlands or Lambeau or even San Francisco, this is a questionable decision.

What's more, with SB XLVIII outdoors in the northeast, even Number One Seed might not be enough for him.

I can understand why the Saints did this, but, for what it's worth, I think they're overpaying in comparison to Brady or Rodgers. Even moreso because, saddled with these numbers against the cap, Home Field every year in the playoffs won't be a given.
That's my one contention with Brees. I believe he's a magnificent player and Quarterback but I don't see the same level of success outdoors as he enjoys indoors.
 
it's crazy how his guaranteed is a NFL high..yet not even close compared to the NBA. But i bet injuries have a part in it
 
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it's crazy how his guaranteed is a NFL high..yet not even close compared to the NBA. But i bet injuries have a part in it

NBA teams has rosters that are less than half the size of an NFL team's, and they play 82 games versus 16, with far less chance of catastrophic injury.

If NFL contracts were guaranteed, then so much cap space would be tied up in injured players that the healthy ones would see a lot less money. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is a separate issue, but that's more or less the dynamic that's at work.
 
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Let Brees have his money. I bet NO will not go back to the SB during the length of his contract.
 
Conclusion: Brees and the Saints will pretty much have to be signing a new extension by 2015. Those last two years of cap hits pretty much can't be allowed to happen if they want to stay competitive.

That all depends on how much the salary cap increases in 2014 and 2015...
 
So sick of the good guy bull**** persona Drew Brees puts out there. He has tried very hard to create this good guy image, but it's all bull****. I've seen through it for a while now, but now it's getting easier to get people to agree with me. Whenever he does something "for the community" it's shoved down our throats. He's all about making sure he gets credit, etc. In my opinion, he does things for community for selfish reasons. Granted, yes it's still nice that he does them, but come on people. He's not the white knight of the NFL like some people like to think he is.

He even tried to come out today and claim that it wasnt about being highest paid in this last deal. WHAT?!!!?!?
 
That's my one contention with Brees. I believe he's a magnificent player and Quarterback but I don't see the same level of success outdoors as he enjoys indoors.

(my edit above)

Agreed. As "buts" go, it's a darn big "BUT."
 
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So sick of the good guy bull**** persona Drew Brees puts out there. He has tried very hard to create this good guy image, but it's all bull****. I've seen through it for a while now, but now it's getting easier to get people to agree with me. Whenever he does something "for the community" it's shoved down our throats. He's all about making sure he gets credit, etc. In my opinion, he does things for community for selfish reasons. Granted, yes it's still nice that he does them, but come on people. He's not the white knight of the NFL like some people like to think he is.

He even tried to come out today and claim that it wasnt about being highest paid in this last deal. WHAT?!!!?!?

Interesting perception. Becoming very popular. Reminds me of the early Brady talk. When he got in the public eye, and other fans got sick of him. The golden boy I think they called him. So, your saying defacto, Brees is really a jerk right. Pads his stats, laughs at us all. He's a fake right ?
Hes not a good person at all. Lies about caring for kids, as a front to make money of course.
Pads his stats to make other QB's look bad, interesting.
Brees is quite the little evil genius.
Guess your smart to pick that up.
 
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