Reminder: We are 4-0 despite an all-time awful offseason and key injuries.

[PATSYLICIOUS]

And yet the FACTS say they went to the Superbowl and allowed 13.25 points per game throughout the playoffs.

Ok. Ignorance is bliss I guess if it matches the acceptable mantra.

Where'd you get 13.25 from? The D allowed 10, 20, and 19 in those playoffs which comes out to just above 16.

 

[sb1]

I have a hard time describing a defense that got torched by Chad Henne (416 yards), Jason Campbell, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Vince Young (400 yards), Dan Orlovsky (353 yards and 113 passer rating) and Rex Grossman with anything other than "they suck".

 

[Ring 6]

I have a hard time describing a defense that got torched by Chad Henne (416 yards), Jason Campbell, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Vince Young (400 yards), Dan Orlovsky (353 yards and 113 passer rating) and Rex Grossman with anything other than "they suck".

Until you consider they won all those games and the stats were mostly useless garbage time.

 

[PatriotSeven]

I have a hard time describing a defense that got torched by Chad Henne (416 yards), Jason Campbell, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Vince Young (400 yards), Dan Orlovsky (353 yards and 113 passer rating) and Rex Grossman with anything other than "they suck".

And I don't believe yards mean ****. Neither does our coach. And he's never give a damn if fans don't agree.

They don't count on a scoreboard. How many yards a defense gives up means nothing about them begin a good or bad defense. Nada.

There's old school defenses who stop teams cold, and limit the time of posession and yards as well as points. But there's another completely different type of philosophy which will NEVER show up in traditional NFL stats, and one BB has been putting on the field, year after year, because he has the type of offense to do it.

It absolutely benefits this team to allow opposing offenses to drive 80 yards downfield and come away with either NOTHING or 3 points when our O is capable of scoring efficiently. And it makes for more exciting football. It's what you want and it's absolutely demoralizing to the other team. The defense gets to beat up on an offense for that entire time and they come away with nothing. Let them drive in short bursts, make them earn it, and you get to beat up on them and try to force a fumble and get a pick, and at worse try to keep them to 3. It's a viable strategy.

That's exactly what forces the other team's offense into being inefficient.

The idea defenses are the only ones who get gassed when they usually dish out most of the punishment is antiquated. Most defenders are true athletes who can go the distance, not just big fat guys running around like in the old days.

 

[sb1]

Until you consider they won all those games and the stats were mostly useless garbage time.

Young was killing the Pats early in that game. So did Grossman. So did Henne. Fitzpatrick's performance wasn't in garbage time it was when the Pats had a lead. Orlovsky's "garbage time" performance got the Colts close enough to be playing for a tie if they made an onside kick.

Good defenses don't get lit up by those guys. They just don't. Allowing a 113 passer rating to Dan Orlovsky is not defensible in any way.

I always thought "Bend don't break" is just a polite way of saying they're not very good. When was the last great defense that was described as "bend don't break"?

 

[sb1]

And I don't believe yards mean ****. Neither does our coach. And he's never give a damn if fans don't agree.

They don't count on a scoreboard.

Until you see the team that gives up a lot of yards and clutch drives against mediocre QB's do it against good teams that can defend the Air Brady show, like the Ravens and Giants in the playoffs.

A defense that gives up a lot of yards =/= a good defense

 

[Oswlek]

I could see the first part -- a team could make the SB on the strength of its offense.

But how does a bad defense only give up 13 ppg come playoff time?

Because they were better in the playoffs than they were in the regular season.

And, yes, points per yard can be useful, but when you are 15th in points allowed and the only reason that number isn't equally poor in points/yard is because you allowed an ungodly amount of yards, well... then the number is absolutely meaningless. You don't get extra credit for being average at scoring defense because you were terrible at yards.

 

[Deus Irae]

There's our giggle for the day!

I could see the first part -- a team could make the SB on the strength of its offense.

But how does a bad defense only give up 13 ppg come playoff time?

Trent Dilfer sucked, and he won a Super Bowl.
The Saints won a Super Bowl with the 20th ranked scoring defense.
The 2011 Giants were 25th in points allowed, but they won the Super Bowl.
The 2006 Colts were 23rf in points allowed, but they won the Super Bowl, despite the often poor play of Peyton Manning.

I know people here love the 'gotcha' moment, but this wasn't one of them.

 

[PatriotSeven]

Until you see the team that gives up a lot of yards and clutch drives do it against good teams that can defend the Air Brady show, like the Ravens and Giants in the playoffs.

A defense that gives up a lot of yards =/= a good defense

Our defense was a defense that gave up a lot of yards and DIDN'T give up a lot of points. Our D wasn't the one who didn't perform up to what a D should have. They allowed LESS POINTS than what an average D allows, and played like a top D. Our offense didn't even score an AVERAGE amount of points against those teams.

It's the very definition of what causes the other team to have an INEFFICIENT offense. To drive across the field in long drives and come away with 3 or no points. Or worse a turnover.

If you don't understand this, then there's no point in going any further. And the traditional stats will never show this.

 

[sb1]

Our defense was a defense that gave up a lot of yards and DIDN'T give up a lot of points.

Perhaps not, but giving up a lot of yards is not a trait you want a D to have. See last point.

Our D wasn't the one who didn't perform up to what a D should have. They allowed LESS than what an average D allows, and played like a top D. Our offense didn't even score an AVERAGE amount of points against those teams.

It's the very definition of what causes the other team to have an INEFFICIENT offense. To drive across the field in long drives and come away with 3 or no points. Or worse a turnover.

If you don't understand this, then there's no point in going any further. And the traditional stats will never show this.

And I would counter that by the fact that we have an all time great QB. So letting the other team drive down the field for a long time, giving up 3rd down conversions (and they were horrible at getting 3rd down stops)...keeps #12 off the field. See Giants, NY, Super Bowl. That makes the fact they give up yards even more egregious than other teams.

So in my book that isn't a trait I'd brag about when I'm talking about the defense.

 

[Ring 6]

Young was killing the Pats early in that game. So did Grossman. So did Henne. Fitzpatrick's performance wasn't in garbage time it was when the Pats had a lead. Orlovsky's "garbage time" performance got the Colts close enough to be playing for a tie if they made an onside kick.

Good defenses don't get lit up by those guys. They just don't. Allowing a 113 passer rating to Dan Orlovsky is not defensible in any way.

I always thought "Bend don't break" is just a polite way of saying they're not very good. When was the last great defense that was described as "bend don't break"?

The point is to win the game, not to be proud of Dan Orlovskys stats.
Fans just don't understand that.
To say a team sucked in a game they won, or in this case, many games they won is ignorant.

 

[Ring 6]

Trent Dilfer sucked, and he won a Super Bowl.
The Saints won a Super Bowl with the 20th ranked scoring defense.
The 2011 Giants were 25th in points allowed, but they won the Super Bowl.
The 2006 Colts were 23rf in points allowed, but they won the Super Bowl, despite the often poor play of Peyton Manning.

I know people here love the 'gotcha' moment, but this wasn't one of them.

The fact that you don't even realize it was a gotcha moment is what makes it so funny.
Teams that go 5-11 suck. Teams that win SBs do not.
Stats are for losers.

 

[Oswlek]

The fact that you don't even realize it was a gotcha moment is what makes it so funny.
Teams that go 5-11 suck. Teams that win SBs do not.
Stats are for losers.

You can win and do something poorly. I wouldn't say the offense covered itself in glory against the Jets a few weeks ago. :confused2:

It's the very definition of what causes the other team to have an INEFFICIENT offense. To drive across the field in long drives and come away with 3 or no points. Or worse a turnover.

Defense A allows three drives, two for 75 yards that lead to field goals and a 60 yard that ends in a turnover

Defense B allows three drives, one for 3 yards, one for 17 and a 40 yarder that results in a field goal.

Which is better?

 

[jmt57]

I'd rather have a defense that creates a lot of turnovers but allows a lot of yardage, than one that is near the top of the league in yardage but creates no turnovers.

Case in point would be the Steelers. Last year they they led the league in yardage but couldn't force any turnovers. This year they're still well above average in yardage but don't have a single takeaway. Though the team has other problems as well, their defense is overrated because so many people pay so much attention to yardage rankings and so little to turnovers.

 

[chicowalker]

Because they were better in the playoffs than they were in the regular season....

(Only addressing this part because points per yard must have been a response to somebody else)

That's fine, but it means they didn't suck in the playoffs.

 

[Oswlek]

(Only addressing this part because points per yard must have been a response to somebody else)

That's fine, but it means they didn't suck in the playoffs.

Never said they did. I defend their performance, even in the superbowl, all the time. But boy were they terrible during the regular season and no amount of stat wizardry can cover that up.

 

[chicowalker]

Trent Dilfer sucked, and he won a Super Bowl.
The Saints won a Super Bowl with the 20th ranked scoring defense.
The 2011 Giants were 25th in points allowed, but they won the Super Bowl.
The 2006 Colts were 23rf in points allowed, but they won the Super Bowl, despite the often poor play of Peyton Manning.

I know people here love the 'gotcha' moment, but this wasn't one of them.

None of that actually addresses what I said. I acknowledged that a team could win (or go to) a Super Bowl with a bad defense.

I think what I asked was a legit question. Not sure why you view it as a "gotcha" moment.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Gronk coming back!?!!?!?!?!?!!

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Gronk coming back!?!!?!?!?!?!!

I would say either this week in Cincy on a limited basis or New Orleans for sure. Probably against NO.

 

[jsull87]

Agreed, Have to always account for Sproles dinks and dunks and beatin linebackers down sidelines.

This is this team's weakness in my opinion currently. Most LB's can't cover Sproles out of the backfield. but i think especially ours. I personally think if offenses are patient enough and are willing to use their RB's as targets we sometimes struggle especially when the RB responsibility moves over to Hightower.

I think we will have Mayo on Graham as much as possible with Gregory help. Talib will take Colston 1 on 1 and McCourty will help in the middle. But that usually leaves Hightower on a RB. Which is a good matchup in the running game but not so much in the passing game.