Remember when we all thought 'We can't win with this defense"?

[Off The Grid]

"We"??

What You Mean "We"...White Man??

Pending: A Return to Dominance!!

Cmon Grid. You were in the forefront of the "this defense is better than last year's brigade", but you were the ONLY one there.

Hah!! True enough, Brother Ken!!

But the title of this Thread does say "we ALL thought..."

 

[mayoclinic]

Talib's been the key:

Without Talib, Chung is starting with Gregory.
Without Talib, McCourty is still at corner, and Arrington is the CB2.
Without Talib, this team is still stuck playing almost exclusively zone coverage.
Without Talib, this team is not doubling its blitz percentage.
Without Talib, the linebackers would be in coverage instead of pressuring the QB.

Without Talib, we're still hoping for "gradual improvement over the course of the rest of the year".

It's a bit OT, but Michael Silver at Yahoo Sports had a great article yesterday on Seattle CB Richard Sherman:

Seahawks' Richard Sherman wants to 'destroy' the NFL and become the best CB of all time - Yahoo! Sports

Now I know it's fashionable to trash Sherman as a punk on this board because of what on when he played Seattle, but he's a phenomenal CB. He was one of my draft binkies in 2011, and I badly wanted the Pats to take him. The article is a great read, and really highlights his competitiveness and how he is playing with a huge chip on his shoulder that drives him, much like Brady. We can call him a punk, but if he played for the Pats we'd love this kid. Hopefully Alfonzo Dennard is driven by a bit of the same think from falling to the 7th round.

The reason for bringing up the article here was the following quote from Larry Fitzgerald:

"[Sherman] and Browner are really good. They mean everything to that defense. This allows Earl [Thomas] and Kam [Chancellor] to fly around and be disruptive at safety. Earl flies around like Troy Polamalu minus the hair. They have a really underrated front four, but they can really rush the passer, which goes hand-in-hand with strong secondary play.

It all goes hand in hand. Having Talib and Dennard at CB allows McCourty to "fly around" more - and he will start spreading his wings more and more as his instincts develop - and let the front 6/7 be more creative and aggressive. Talib's not Sherman, but he's good enough to let the rest happen.

 

[Off The Grid]

this is not the same defense that gave up 500 yards to the ravens

this is not the same defense that gave up 2 late TD's to the seahawks

it just isn't

1 ~ That kind of thinking is precisely why almost everyone got it wrong.

And it's precisely why virtually everyone is astonished that we dominated ~ yes!! dominated!! ~ Planet Hoosten on Monday Night!!


2 ~ This is the same Defense, allowing for the usual personnel fluctuations that every year sees: We've lost Ras I Dowling, and Kyle Arrington regressed ~ though I'm almost certain it was because of an undisclosed Injury that appears to've since completely healed, based on'is recent play. And we replaced Dowling's slot ~ and upgraded it, in my opinion, though his play has been admittedly inconsistent up until Monday ~ with Aqib Talib.

But the Turn Around began 3 weeks before Talib arrived.

This is the same Defense.

3 ~ They've just evolved over the course of the Season...as Belichick Defenses tend to. To expect the same crew to play the same in December as they played in September...is ludicrous.

4 ~ The difference...is that this is the most talented crew we've had since 2004...perhaps ever.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

...Talib was out (injury mid 2Q I believe). The Texans are easily prolific enough to overcome a 3 score deficit with ~28 minutes of clock left.

Then:
Foster runs left 3 yards (Ninko, Deadrick)
Foster runs up the middle -2 yards (Deadrick)
Schaub completes pass to A. Johnson for 8 yards (Dennard)
Punt on 4th & 1.

So, with the opportunity ripe for a drive to make it a 2 score game with TONS of clock left, Hou used it's best offensive players and the Pats forced a 3 and out! 2 runs for 1 yard in an important drive followed by a textbook tackle short of the 1st down is a defensive stand.

The next series was the bomb to Stallworth. Game over.

Great example. A lot better than (the fact that we might disagree with one or the other of the Penalties called will, when combined with 25 cents, get us a three minute local call from any payphone that can still be found):

1st and 10 at BAL 8 J.Flacco pass short middle to R.Rice to BLT 20 for 12 yards (J.Mayo).
1st and 10 at BAL 20 (No Huddle) J.Flacco pass incomplete deep right to T.Smith. PENALTY on BLT-M.Yanda, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at BLT 20 - No Play.
1st and 20 at BAL 10 R.Rice left guard to BLT 16 for 6 yards (D.Hightower).
2nd and 14 at BAL 16 (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Flacco pass incomplete deep right to T.Smith. PENALTY on NE-D.McCourty, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at BLT 16 - No Play.
1st and 10 at BAL 21 (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Flacco pass short middle to J.Jones to BLT 42 for 21 yards (S.Gregory).
1st and 10 at BAL 42 (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Flacco pass short right to T.Smith ran ob at NE 42 for 16 yards.
1st and 10 at NE 42 (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Flacco pass short left to D.Pitta to NE 37 for 5 yards (S.Moore).
2nd and 5 at NE 37 (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Flacco pass short right to R.Rice to NE 10 for 27 yards (K.Arrington). NE-K.Arrington was injured during the play.
1st and 10 at NE 10 (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Flacco pass incomplete short left to D.Pitta.
2nd and 10 at NE 10 (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Flacco sacked at NE 22 for -12 yards (sack split by C.Jones and K.Love). PENALTY on NE-B.Spikes, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at NE 10 - No Play.
1st and 5 at NE 5 (No Huddle) J.Flacco pass short right to T.Smith for 5 yards, TOUCHDOWN. 30 27
J.Tucker extra point is GOOD, Center-M.Cox, Holder-S.Koch. 30 28

 

[jnug]

But this is NOT that defense. Kudos to the guys that thought Talib would have a huge impact because he has. Certainly some of us have been nearly shouting for a big CB with some athletic ability that can challenge receivers because we simply have to many of these pregnant roller skates running around in our secondary.

However Talib has done one thing that even I did not expect. He seems to have imbued the other CB's with a sense of challenge...something like if Talib can do it, so can I. Sure the entire DB corp seems more confident with Talib on the field but they also seem more like they are more accepting of the challenge when he is off the field. Did not see that one coming.

And for those that want to argue that it is the same defense, tell me who in the secondary of three weeks ago would have had the size the skills and the confidence to have taken Houston's most dangerous receiver one on one all over the field?

 

[BananaRepublican]

1 ~ That kind of thinking is precisely why almost everyone got it wrong.

Whether this is the same defense or not is similar to whether a person is the same person after growing from age 15 to age 45. Yes (you are the same person) and no (you're not because you've grown.)

It's a paradox. I love paradoxes especially when they take the rest of the league by surprise. :-D

Now what happens if the Pats' D out performs the Niners' D Sunday night? That's a paradox that will make heads explode in all of the radio booths across NFL Land the next day. It will be like a bunch of electrical transformers blowing one by one and then a dozen at a time. I can smell the smoke now.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Except it's not "this defense" anymore.

It's a completely reworked secondary, it's a team that blitzes much much more than it did, (based on impressions, haven't seen stats to back that up) and it's a team that challenges receivers much more aggressively than it did.

Don't forget the maturity coming to our very young, very talented, and very big, "SEC connection" LB corps. That LB corps has the potential to all be ProBowlers, IMHO.

 

[Rob0729]

Not to pat myself on the back.... Ok, I am patting myself on the back.... but I said early in the season that like most years this defense was going to get significantly better than it was at the beginning of the season. I was scoffed saying that there is no way this defense will get better.

As I said, the Pats were very vanilla on defense and as the year went along and the players got more cohesive together, they would open up more of the playbook and have a lot more disguised coverages and blitzes. That is exactly what happened.

I can't remember the last Belichick defense that hasn't gotten better as the year goes along. This year has the potential of a 2001 turnaround where the defense was mediocre at best by the beginning of the year and one of the best defenses by the end.

I think that might be a little too high to set our sights on, but considering how bad the defense was at the beginning of this year it could be about as drastic of an improvement even if the Pats' defense gets nowhere near elite.

 

[jnug]

But without Talib I don't think the secondary would have made anything like the progress it has made. It would have been better but it would still have been very vulnerable to just the kind of receiver that Talib excels at covering and the Pats would not even be able to run some the defenses they are running without Talib. So I am sorry. I buy the BB defense gets better as the year progresses. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that. However I don't think it would have had anything like the potential it has now if it did not have Talib.

My hope is that BB sees what the heck is happening and resists the temptation to continue to bring in these cookie cutter, DB's that are all of a kind, are mostly jacks of all trades but masters of none, generally smallish and recognizes that he needs more balance in his secondary between the kinds of guys he has generally drafted back there and a guy like Talib. BB has gotten really lucky with Talib as he became available for BB to pluck him. Clearly BB was smart enough to figure out what was lacking in his secondary and all improvements aside without Talib would still have been lacking.

 

[neuronet]

We were right: we couldn't win with that defense, but we can win with this defense.

 

[Coach42]

I'd love to see Ninkovich get some more love. I feel like he makes at least 2 huge plays every game for this team. Not to mention the versatility/depth he provides. I love that guy.

 

[mayoclinic]

Ian Rapoport jumps on the "Pats have solved their defensive puzzle" bandwagon:

On Sunday night, the New England Patriots and the San Francisco 49ers will take the field in an epic showdown that features the game's best defense against the game's most electric and versatile offense. That, we knew. Patrick Willis, Aldon Smith and company will have the unenviable task of disrupting quarterback Tom Brady's Patriots offense that functions like a Swiss Army Knife. For the Patriots, hoping to hone in on a No. 1 seed after dismantling the Texans last week, that's always the way it is. They are an offensive team, which is fine.

But in surprisingly undercover fashion, they also have a stout defense now. No, not like San Francisco. But led by Jerod Mayo, Vince Wilfork and a slew of young'ns like Dont'a Hightower and Chandler Jones, they are 12th in the league in scoring, but a whopping seventh in total defense. That's a real number.

I mention this because when I was covering them last year, they were a jigsaw puzzle defensively right up until the playoffs. Guys like Julian Edelman were playing in the secondary, and he joined guys off their couch like Nate Jones. This year? Not so much. It's all changed, which should make them much tougher to face in the postseason. When I was talking with Mayo this week following his appearance for a Subway charity event that included random acts of kindness, he explained. But he also noted that with 49ers QB Colin Kaepernick, it's no easy task for anyone.

"This is a physical team we're playing against, and I feel like we're a physical team as well," Mayo told me. "But at the same time, they have a lot of weapons on both sides of the ball and the quarterback is doing a lot of different things that you don't normally see each and every week. He's running the ball, passing the ball, running the option, things like that. We have to prepare for a lot of different looks. I think the biggest thing (on defense, why it feels different) is just having the continuity of the group of guys out there. And that's if you ask any great defensive team or any great offensive team, it's always about having guys healthy and having the same group of guys going out there each and every week, getting used to their playing style, knowing where they're going to be and how they're going to play. That's huge for us."

New England Patriots' defensive improvement central to success - NFL.com

Increased talent + better schematic fit + continuity improves a lot, and opens up opportunities to expand the defensive repertoire.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ian Rapoport jumps on the "Pats have solved their defensive puzzle" bandwagon...

...Increased talent + better schematic fit + continuity improves a lot, and opens up opportunities to expand the defensive repertoire.

Are you sure it's not because they fired all the defensive coaches?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Are you sure it's not because they fired all the defensive coaches?

Shhhhh! You're giving away BB's surprise, shocking move once the regular season is done.

 

[DarrylS]

Jackie McMullen was on the radio the other day, and she made a comment that she overheard at ESPN.. and it went something like this, about the incredible winning record for the Pats in the second half of the year..

She claimed that the defensive QBR for this team averaged something like a 68 in the first half of the season, and something like a 34 in the second half..

Very interesting, telling stat.. not my numbers may be off, but they are close.

At one point in the season our D backfield, had a total of 5 years of NFL experience...

 

[wistahpatsfan]

Since the demolition of the Rams in London, when the D gave up just 7, they have given up 31, 24, 19, 16, and 14 points. That's a great trend. Looks like the 49ers won't even get two TD's this week.

 

[Reckedtrek]

Remember when we all thought 'We can't win with this defense"?

What's with this "we all" BS?

I expected the D to improve over the season, and go 12-4. I still think 12-4 is very likely, and 13-3 is certainly possible. On the flip side, I DO remember when some of "YOU all" were saying 'We can't win with this defense". :singing: Am I still a homer when I'm right?

Sometimes the glass is half empty.
Sometimes the glass is half full.
I say the glass is too big.

 

[Off The Grid]

We were right: we couldn't win with that defense, but we can win with this defense.

No, you were dead wrong.

That Defense ~ having lost one player, Ras I Dowling ~ added only one ~ Aqib Talib.

And the turnaround began 3 weeks before he started playing.

The Defense ~ the very same defense that you and most everyone else was bagging on ~ has gradually evolved ~ precisely as predicted ~ and is now really starting to kick @$$...precisely as a few of us predicted!!

 

[Off The Grid]

Am I still a homer when I'm right?

Beautiful, Brother Trek!!

:rocker:

I find it hilarious that so many of the Chicken Littles who actually gave me crap about my Prediction because they failed to conceive that this Defense was loaded with talent when the season began ~ and has since merely traded one talented CornerBack ~ Dowling ~ for another ~ Talib ~ are now squealing that "that" Defense ~ you know: way back in the PreHistoric "September" Era ~ was a completely different Defense from "this" Defense...and claim, therefore, that they weren't dramatically, idiotically, hilariously WRONG!!

Funny thing, though...

The Players on at that Defense ~ back in the ancient, prehistoric "September" Era, of days long past ~ had Players whose names are remarkably similar to the names of the Players on this Defense...Imagine that!!