Remember when we all thought 'We can't win with this defense"?

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JJDChE, Dec 11, 2012.

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  1. JJDChE

    JJDChE 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    Well 'this defense' just shut down the second highest scoring offense in the NFL.

    Hopefully the Talib injury is minor, he has transformed this pass defense. Arrington all of a sudden looks like a stud inside, Dennard is living in receiver's hip pockets, McCourty is hitting his stride at safety.

    It's been a long time since I felt confident about 'this defense' going against anybody, let alone a good offense, but here we are. You put Gronk back on the field and it's hard to imagine any team in the NFL hanging with these guys on either side of the ball.

    Another litmus test next week. If we can beat the 9ers, I think you can legitimately say this team has beat the top 3 teams in the NFL (outside themselves).
  2. Double TE

    Double TE 4 LIFE Supporter

    #91 Jersey

    We underestimated the quality of our SEC LBs as Gruden kept calling them over and over and over and over again.
  3. Bhelmet

    Bhelmet Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    No doubt there has been a transformation since Talib started playing - hope we see them all on the field Sunday.
  4. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    Not everyone did. Some thought it was a matter of time, plus making a few key changes, which the coaching staff did. It's all gone as predicted:

    - Move McCourty to FS and protect the deep part of the field
    - Get Arrington away from the outside CB; he's been unexpectedly great in the slot
    - Acquire Talib and pair him with Dennard outside and play aggressive press-man coverage
    - Once your secondary can actually cover, start letting your talented front 7 play to its talent level, instead of holding them back

    The defense is now unrecognizable from earlier in the year. And it should get better once Chandler Jones is fully recovered.
  5. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 In the Starting Line-Up

    #87 Jersey

    Those three players in their roles have made this Defense better and i will add Gregory over Chung has made the Group much better as well. Chung only should Start if there is an injury if not use Chung in a reserve role.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  6. Double TE

    Double TE 4 LIFE Supporter

    #91 Jersey

    The D is aggressive now and dictating the action rather than being passive. Blitzes work.
  7. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    This is not the same D.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  8. Double TE

    Double TE 4 LIFE Supporter

    #91 Jersey

    I am curious to see what the D does vs. Kaepernick. I hope Spikes punishes him every time he runs!
  9. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Pro Bowl Player

    #24 Jersey

    Except it's not "this defense" anymore.

    It's a completely reworked secondary, it's a team that blitzes much much more than it did, (based on impressions, haven't seen stats to back that up) and it's a team that challenges receivers much more aggressively than it did.
  10. JJDChE

    JJDChE 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    That's the point.
  11. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member Supporter

    #50 Jersey


    The early season defense WAS a mess. Stabilizing the secondary with McCourty in charge at safety and a couple of legit press corners has changed everything, and permitted the aggressive scheming up front. (Here's to the health of the top 3 cb's!)

    To be fair, though, back in TC we all noted how young the defense was and knew that some patience would be required in the early going. But as much as we might know that intellectually, it turns out to be hard to accept emotionally in the middle of a football game.
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    It's semantics.

    No one every thought that the team would win playing soft zone coverage and BBDB defense with no pressure. That just doesn't work. The problem was, without the defensive personnel to cover effectively, anything else just resulted in huge plays. So it was a choice between death by paper cut vs. getting decapitated.

    Part of the problem was injury related, part of it was youth and inexperience, part of it was changing personnel weekly, part of it was playing people out of position, part of it was just not having enough talent at the right positions. The front 7 always had the talent, but it was effectively paralyzed by the problems on the back end. Those problems have been rectified. Call it a "whole new defense" if you like, or a "new scheme", or an "adjustment", or a "fix". It's all the same thing.

    I suspect that BB has wanted to play like this for a long, long time, but he hasn't had the personnel. He had some of the back end personnel in 2009 (the secondary was quite good with that year) but didn't have the personnel up front. The secondary fell apart in 2010 and last year. He's finally got the horses up front and enough talent on the back end to get creative without fear of being torn apart.
  13. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow Supporter Supporter

    #87 Jersey

    How do the Patriots value Arrington in free agency? A great slot CB, but only a slot CB. Hopefully no team stupidly overpays him thinking he can play outside, would 3mil/year be too high for a nickel CB?

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

    #12 Jersey

    The defense people were complaining about (and rightfully so) had 2 gaping holes in the secondary. After the Talib signing and Dennard starting to prove he's a capable CB2, those holes appear to be gone. If you put Kyle Arrington back at CB2 rather than the slot where he is thriving, McCourty back at CB1 rather than FS where he's playing like a stud, and Gregory/Wilson/Chung are our only safeties, we likely won't win with that defense.
  15. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic Supporter Supporter

    That sounds a bit rich, but the market will decide. I'd guess a bit less than Steve Gregory's 3 year $7.05M contract.
  16. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

    Don't look now, but this defense is legitimate.

    Up to the Week 7 struggles against the Jets: 23.2 PPG
    Since: 18.5 PPG

    18PPG in this modern NFL is a top 5 scoring defense.

    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  17. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats face the 49ers with Devin McCourty and Marquis Cole at CB and Pat Chung and Steve Gregory at Safety with Tav Wilson playing the slot.

    I suspect we have lost Talib, Dennard and Arrington for at least a few weeks and maybe Dennard until the Playoffs, depending how severe his hamstring injury is.

    Back to square one...
  18. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

    ... Talib is fine. Arrington came back on the field as well for a snap.

    Dennard is the only person I am worried about - he has the dreaded Hamstring injury.
  19. Dutchmaster617

    Dutchmaster617 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    HOU made a lot of mistakes and at times looked mentally weak. We have always had these games and with a tougher execution from the opp we give up the usual 24+.

    I like whats happening but would it shock me if JAC scores 30+ and throws all over us? No. We said the same thing in 2010 and 2011 and all it took was a well executed game from NY QBs to embarrass us. I want to see them hold a SB lead first.
  20. livinginthe past

    livinginthe past Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    #12 Jersey

    What I thought fascinating was the consistent pattern of defensive improvement that the D shows this time of year.

    The stats............1st half of season.................2nd half of season

    Opp PPG.................22.6.....................................18.7

    Opp QBR...............68.6 (30th in NFL)..................37.4 (2nd in NFL)

    Good read from Jackie McMullan:

    New England Patriots defense comes of age when it counts - ESPN Boston
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