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Remember when we all thought 'We can't win with this defense"?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JJDChE, Dec 11, 2012.

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  1. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    Well 'this defense' just shut down the second highest scoring offense in the NFL.

    Hopefully the Talib injury is minor, he has transformed this pass defense. Arrington all of a sudden looks like a stud inside, Dennard is living in receiver's hip pockets, McCourty is hitting his stride at safety.

    It's been a long time since I felt confident about 'this defense' going against anybody, let alone a good offense, but here we are. You put Gronk back on the field and it's hard to imagine any team in the NFL hanging with these guys on either side of the ball.

    Another litmus test next week. If we can beat the 9ers, I think you can legitimately say this team has beat the top 3 teams in the NFL (outside themselves).
  2. Double TE

    Double TE The Best in the World PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We underestimated the quality of our SEC LBs as Gruden kept calling them over and over and over and over again.
  3. Bhelmet

    Bhelmet Rookie

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    No doubt there has been a transformation since Talib started playing - hope we see them all on the field Sunday.
  4. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not everyone did. Some thought it was a matter of time, plus making a few key changes, which the coaching staff did. It's all gone as predicted:

    - Move McCourty to FS and protect the deep part of the field
    - Get Arrington away from the outside CB; he's been unexpectedly great in the slot
    - Acquire Talib and pair him with Dennard outside and play aggressive press-man coverage
    - Once your secondary can actually cover, start letting your talented front 7 play to its talent level, instead of holding them back

    The defense is now unrecognizable from earlier in the year. And it should get better once Chandler Jones is fully recovered.
  5. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

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    Those three players in their roles have made this Defense better and i will add Gregory over Chung has made the Group much better as well. Chung only should Start if there is an injury if not use Chung in a reserve role.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  6. Double TE

    Double TE The Best in the World PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The D is aggressive now and dictating the action rather than being passive. Blitzes work.
  7. randomk1

    randomk1 Rookie

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    This is not the same D.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  8. Double TE

    Double TE The Best in the World PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am curious to see what the D does vs. Kaepernick. I hope Spikes punishes him every time he runs!
  9. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    Except it's not "this defense" anymore.

    It's a completely reworked secondary, it's a team that blitzes much much more than it did, (based on impressions, haven't seen stats to back that up) and it's a team that challenges receivers much more aggressively than it did.
  10. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    That's the point.
  11. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :yeahthat:

    The early season defense WAS a mess. Stabilizing the secondary with McCourty in charge at safety and a couple of legit press corners has changed everything, and permitted the aggressive scheming up front. (Here's to the health of the top 3 cb's!)

    To be fair, though, back in TC we all noted how young the defense was and knew that some patience would be required in the early going. But as much as we might know that intellectually, it turns out to be hard to accept emotionally in the middle of a football game.
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's semantics.

    No one every thought that the team would win playing soft zone coverage and BBDB defense with no pressure. That just doesn't work. The problem was, without the defensive personnel to cover effectively, anything else just resulted in huge plays. So it was a choice between death by paper cut vs. getting decapitated.

    Part of the problem was injury related, part of it was youth and inexperience, part of it was changing personnel weekly, part of it was playing people out of position, part of it was just not having enough talent at the right positions. The front 7 always had the talent, but it was effectively paralyzed by the problems on the back end. Those problems have been rectified. Call it a "whole new defense" if you like, or a "new scheme", or an "adjustment", or a "fix". It's all the same thing.

    I suspect that BB has wanted to play like this for a long, long time, but he hasn't had the personnel. He had some of the back end personnel in 2009 (the secondary was quite good with that year) but didn't have the personnel up front. The secondary fell apart in 2010 and last year. He's finally got the horses up front and enough talent on the back end to get creative without fear of being torn apart.
  13. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How do the Patriots value Arrington in free agency? A great slot CB, but only a slot CB. Hopefully no team stupidly overpays him thinking he can play outside, would 3mil/year be too high for a nickel CB?
  14. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    The defense people were complaining about (and rightfully so) had 2 gaping holes in the secondary. After the Talib signing and Dennard starting to prove he's a capable CB2, those holes appear to be gone. If you put Kyle Arrington back at CB2 rather than the slot where he is thriving, McCourty back at CB1 rather than FS where he's playing like a stud, and Gregory/Wilson/Chung are our only safeties, we likely won't win with that defense.
  15. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That sounds a bit rich, but the market will decide. I'd guess a bit less than Steve Gregory's 3 year $7.05M contract.
  16. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Don't look now, but this defense is legitimate.

    Up to the Week 7 struggles against the Jets: 23.2 PPG
    Since: 18.5 PPG

    18PPG in this modern NFL is a top 5 scoring defense.


    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  17. AzPatsFan

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    I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats face the 49ers with Devin McCourty and Marquis Cole at CB and Pat Chung and Steve Gregory at Safety with Tav Wilson playing the slot.

    I suspect we have lost Talib, Dennard and Arrington for at least a few weeks and maybe Dennard until the Playoffs, depending how severe his hamstring injury is.

    Back to square one...
  18. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday Rookie

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    ... Talib is fine. Arrington came back on the field as well for a snap.

    Dennard is the only person I am worried about - he has the dreaded Hamstring injury.
  19. Dutchmaster617

    Dutchmaster617 Rookie

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    HOU made a lot of mistakes and at times looked mentally weak. We have always had these games and with a tougher execution from the opp we give up the usual 24+.

    I like whats happening but would it shock me if JAC scores 30+ and throws all over us? No. We said the same thing in 2010 and 2011 and all it took was a well executed game from NY QBs to embarrass us. I want to see them hold a SB lead first.
  20. livinginthe past

    livinginthe past Rookie

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    What I thought fascinating was the consistent pattern of defensive improvement that the D shows this time of year.

    The stats............1st half of season.................2nd half of season

    Opp PPG.................22.6.....................................18.7

    Opp QBR...............68.6 (30th in NFL)..................37.4 (2nd in NFL)

    Good read from Jackie McMullan:

    New England Patriots defense comes of age when it counts - ESPN Boston
  21. ForThoseAboutToRock

    ForThoseAboutToRock Rookie

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    There was a point last night in the 3rd quarter where the offense had just committed it's 4th punt in a row (3 of which were 3 + out) and the score was 21-0. I was worried. Talib was out (injury mid 2Q I believe). The Texans are easily prolific enough to overcome a 3 score deficit with ~28 minutes of clock left.

    Then:
    Foster runs left 3 yards (Ninko, Deadrick)
    Foster runs up the middle -2 yards (Deadrick)
    Schaub completes pass to A. Johnson for 8 yards (Dennard)
    Punt on 4th & 1.

    So, with the opportunity ripe for a drive to make it a 2 score game with TONS of clock left, Hou used it's best offensive players and the Pats forced a 3 and out! 2 runs for 1 yard in an important drive followed by a textbook tackle short of the 1st down is a defensive stand.

    The next series was the bomb to Stallworth. Game over.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  22. livinginthe past

    livinginthe past Rookie

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    Typical downer Pats fan.

    The Giants offense put up all of 19 points on us in the Superbowl - you call that an embarrassment?

    The problem in the SB was the offenses inability to acore more than 17.

    Really.

    Get a clue.
  23. PatriotSeven

    PatriotSeven Rookie

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    Not all of us. While I definitely thought we need improvement in the secondary, I believed we could win with last year's defense and they did not disappoint in the playoffs or Superbowl.

    This D looks improved in some aspects, and are better than what proved to be a playoffs and Superbowl caliber defense last year.
  24. Danger Zone

    Danger Zone Rookie

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    What I heard on Patriots Radio was that we blitzed 15% of the time before Talib and 30% of the time with Talib and the readjusted secondary.
  25. PatsWickedPissah

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    Postgame Wilfy said as much opining that finally BB had the talent to be able to move capable guys around to different positions in different packages
  26. PatsWickedPissah

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    You're right. With Edelperson out the Pats absolutely cannot afford to lose yet another 7th round pick for a game.
  27. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    Too suggest that significant changes have improved our defense? How is that "semantics"?

    And yet that's exactly the way we played these last few years. It was only after we were giving up a record number of big plays earlier this year that a change was made.

    Well O.K. But that's like saying the Colts drafting Andrew Luck was an "adjustment" or a "fix". We completely changed the secondary, we traded for a player and we noticeably got more aggressive. It was a moved forced upon us because our defense was so bad. I don't see how that's debatable. credit to BB for making the move.
  28. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What you wrote is:

    That's semantics by definition. The Pats' defense is never the same at any 2 points in time. Personnel and scheme constantly change. Obviously, we're not playing Pat Chung as the deep cover safety anymore. You can call that a "new defense" or a "new scheme" or "significant" changes or whatever. What you call it is "semantics". It's obviously changed from earlier in the season. No one disagrees about that. No one is arguing that we could win win Arrington outside, Chung as the deep cover safety, soft zone coverage, and no pass rush. I'm not sure why you're making an argument out of it.
  29. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    I really can't be bothered anymore.

    If you don't think significantly changing the secondary and doubling the number of blitzes almost overnight are "significant changes" then fine. I'm not going to bother arguing the point.
  30. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You're not even reading what I wrote. I never said it wasn't significant. We're obviously not communicating, which is a shame, since I think the world of you, so I suggest we just cool off.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
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