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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Rob0729, Mar 2, 2012.

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  1. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Funny, I remember two years ago the media demonized the Pats for heading to an inevitable divorce between them and Brady. The media said the Pats were playing games with Brady and he may leave while Jim Irsay was going to make sure that Manning would retire a Colt and the Saints would reward Brees long before his contract expires and insult him with a franchise tag.

    Two years later, Brady is happy and productive in New England, Peyton and the Colts are in the mist of a kinda messy divorce, and contract negotiations between Brees and the Saints are getting ugly with Brees very likely to be insulted with the franchise tag and at his age he might spend the next two years on it. Jason Cole is now reporting that Brees and the Saints are $5 million a year apart on a new contract and Mickey Loomis thinks Brees is a "very good" not a "great" QB.

    If Drew Brees gets franchise tag, Saints doomed - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
     
  2. Truck

    Truck Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    To be fair, the Brady stuff was way overblown -- I think the whole 'last year of the contract' when it comes to players, and especially to coaches is way overblown.

    And the Manning stuff couldn't have been predicted. I bet if things were reverse -- Brady missed the entire season again and we have a chance to get the most talked about college qb since vick or manning, many of us would be completely for it -- although the scenario here would probably be to let the qb stay on the sidelines for 1-2 years and then trade brady later since we are a superbowl contending team -- if we weren't then we'd be getting rid of brady and rebuilding.
     
  3. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    contract negotiations are touchy situations.

    with brees, the deal will get done......simply typical posturing going on now

    the manning situation is different. if manning was 5 years younger, like when brady missed the season, then the colts would be looking to trade the top pick and load up on much needed talent across the roster. there is a massive bonus looming for manning and nobody knows if he can even play. I think both sides are still trying to figure out what his value is.......not an easy thing to do.
     
  4. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Loomis is getting killed by the mediots, but he's right. Mr. NFLPA is reportedly looking for $23M per, the first 3 year average of Manning's $18M per deal. He should just tag him x 3. He won't hold out, image matters too much to him - locally and nationally. He's 33 years old and 6'0" and a prolific passer who struggles a bit outside of his dome where he's been surrounded with a talented OL and expansive cast of offensive skillplayers, some of whom they may not be able to retain much longer if they have to invest almost 18% of their cap in the QB. $14.5M + $17.2M + $24.8M = 3 years $56.5M <$19M per AAV...unless he's willing to "settle" for 5 years $90M ($18M AAV actually a little more than a bodefide great QB who resides here and is just a year older but 4" taller and a lot more accomplished did). I know he's been a good soldier playing out his 6/$60M deal. But so was Brady on the same deal he didn't even get until he'd already won 2 more rings on a deal worth half that.

    Waiting eagerly for our resident Saints fan to weigh in on the debate.

    T - 5 days and counting 'til Colts fans wave goodbye to Peyton...and test their Luck.
     
  5. bucky

    bucky 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Yes, the term "media" just doesn't have the same meaning it used to. These days, the media is all about making loud noise. And by doing so, they drown out anything that could be considered real music.
     
  6. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here is a link to an insightful piece Andrew Brandt did back in September on how the Brees negotiations might unfold. I'd almost fotgotten momentarily that Condon is his agent, too. Bet Mickey is pointing to how the Manning deal worked out for the Colts about now.

    Negotiations not a Brees | National Football Post
     
  7. conway

    conway Practice Squad Player

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    I think instead of suggesting Brees is not a "great" quarterback, a better approach might be to emphasize the sacrifices the team would have to make to keep him at the price he's asking. Saying he's not great will probably offend him and cause him to be more firmly entrenched in his position. If emphasizing team needs didn't work, I'd franchise his ass and start talking about a trade with the Browns.
     
  8. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    And we didn't hear a Peep about Payton and the Colts being astranged when they didn't address his contract situation right away. Funny how that is. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  9. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Irsay has totally blown how he has handled Manning plain and simple. Deciding to dump Manning and his salary isn't wrong considering the state of his franchise, but he started a public war with Manning the week of the Super Bowl because the guy just can't shut up. The Colts are a team devoid of talent with the #1 overall pick with the most hyped QB prospect in probably two decades. It is time for them to rebuild. He just could have handled it better.

    But my overall point was that the media demonized the Patriots unfairly by contrasting their negotiations with Brady against two QBs who didn't end up coming close to what happened with any of the QBs. Brady got the contract he wanted. The Colts and Manning had as many problems getting a deal done as Brady and the Pats did and Manning is getting cut either today or next week. Brees and the Saints are now having similiar contention as the Pats and Brady did.
     
  10. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ummm . . . how so? Brady never actually reached FA, unlike both Manning (who IIRC was slapped with the exclusive franchise tag) and Brees (who almost certainly will be tagged).
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  11. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is similiar in that there were reports that Brady was frustrated in how the Pats were handling the negotiations and what they thought he was worth. Not that the situation was exactly the same and Brady was franchised.
     
  12. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    I'm not sure that's true. If I was Irsay in that situation, I would be looking to move beyond manning. they're not going to contend in his remaining time as all their key positions are old. they're at a point of either blowing up the team and starting fresh or having manning and his cap hit interfereing with the team getting younger and ready for the longer haul. we are not talking about a team that a player away anymore. I think Irsay is behaving deliberately. nobody retires when they should anymore because there's too much money in it. the last thing I want to watch is brady in his last 2 years simply because he can earn 10M per and be a poor ROI
     
  13. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    Talk about the dome and his height all you want, Brees is an elite QB in this league and he just shattered the NFL passing yards record. Of course he's going to demand top dollar. He would be crazy not to because this is his last chance at a big contract. If Vick can command a 100m dollar deal, there's no doubt that Brees is worth more monetarily than that. Saints fans also love Brees, so the negotiations might be tough, but I doubt the ownership wants to lose the face of the franchise.

     
  14. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Its not about the money its all about the cap hit. Even if your QB is worth, or deserves the MONEY, you cannot have 20-22% of your cap number tied up in one single players. Brady and Manning were 2 of the most durable QBs in NFL history, but both have been lost for full seasons. Brees is a lot less physical a player than either Manning or Brady. He is always only a single hit away from the IR. To put all that cap space into one player, just doesn't make sense.

    BTW- I think its time for St. Drew to be exposed. The Saints are offering a better contract that Brady got, and Brees is demanding a number he must know will badly hurt his own team. What is it? $18MM/yr not enough to "feed the family" :rolleyes: Time for the real Drew Brees to step forward. Drew "greedy and grabbing for the last dollar" Brees, just like every other over entitled athlete.

    BTW- nice pick up, Robo. I had forgotten how the Pats were flayed by the ball washing media for not immediately giving Brady everything he wanted. Its just ANOTHER example of why this organization is superior to the rest of the league.....most of the time
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  15. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Again, I am not saying moving on from Manning is not wrong. I am saying getting into a war with Manning in the media the week of the Super Bowl is wrong. It is also stupid, but in character for Irsay.

    I agree everything Irsay does is deliberate. Everything he does is to draw attention to himself no matter how much of an idiot he looks from his unintentially comical and bizarre Twitter account to drawing attention to himself the week of the Super Bowl getting into a squabble with Manning.

    There is no strategic reason to do what he did. In fact, all it did was hurt himself because he definitely lost the PR battle. Nothing he did ultimately changed the ultimate outcome of the Manning situation which will end in Manning being cut next week. It just made him look like an arse for kicking Manning in the groin as he went out the door.

    Irsay is a typical NFL owner who inherited his team rather than buying himself. He is an idiot who proved it with the Manning situation. He is "up there" with Mike Brown in inheriting the managerial talent of his father.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2012
  16. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's simply not true. If anything is wrong with the Colts it's that their roster is too young and inexperienced and light on talent as Polian backfilled a lot of holes with UDFA's as opposed to veteran FA. He seldom even hung on to his own FA. And when he did he overpaid them. So his rosters were top heavy. If Manning remained and they traded the Luck pick for a boatload of picks they could be competitive in a hurry again because Polian and his aversion to FA are now history. With Manning still on the roster they are at $107M against the cap. Cutting him will only save them $7M (and $28M in cash). His cap hits are more manageable under this deal than they ever were under the old one.

    Irsay just found himself in a situation where opportunity (to reassert himself as an owner) knocked in the form of a 2-14 season and a #1 draft pick in a year when the next great QB prospect since Manning is being hyped. Making the move now will cost him short term. Whether it pays off long term remains to be seen. It took Manning 3-4 years to make them a consistent contender and 9 years to make them champions. Could take Luck longer, if ever and turn out to be a case of be careful what you wish for.

    Colts.com | Roster
     
  17. Fixit

    Fixit In the Starting Line-Up

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    He's elite indoors; he's good to good+ outdoors. Check his splits.
     
  18. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Vick's deal is really a 5 year $80M ($16M AAV) deal, or less. The Eagles FO aren't the sharpest tools in the drawer, but it can also be a 2-3 year deal with little dead cap.
    Vick got $32.5M fully guaranteed in the form of his 1st and second year salaries and a minimal signing bonus and a small roster bonus fully guaranteed and $3M of his 2013 salary guaranteed for injury only. So they can walk away after this year or next no problem and he will have made $32-$48M or $16M per.

    I'm sure Loomis would be happy to offer it to Brees. And when Condon finished laughing (or cursing him out) the sides would be further apart than they already are. Brees is a year younger than Brady so he's probably got 5 years left and who knows how many of those will be elite years. He wants more AAV money than either Manning or Brady and a lot more AAV and guaranteed money than Vick got on his second phony baloney $100M deal.




    More Vick contract details | ProFootballTalk
     
  19. Ivan

    Ivan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Weren't Felger and Borges going off about how well run the Colts were in comparison to the Patriots and claiming the Brady deal would become a nightmare for the Patriots while the Colts would have no problems with Manning?
     
  20. Joey007

    Joey007 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Once again New England showed why they are the class of the NFL and kthat they now what they're doing.
     
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