Welcome to PatsFans.com

"Religion of Peace" rioting again

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by QuiGon, Sep 15, 2006.

  1. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    6,123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Once again, showing how open minded, peaceful and tolerant they are, Muslims are all up in arms with their usual routine of rioting and death threats over something Pope Benedict said (actually, it was something Benedict quoted some other guy said about 600 years ago).

    Hey Patters, these are the people you want us to learn to understand and be friends with right...? I guess it's OK to have death threats against the Pope... but if they ever had a death threat against a homosexual, then you'd really be upset...!!
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,778
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +170 / 4 / -4

    QuiGon, you and I have roughly the same goals: We both want to defeat the terrorists, and we both oppose the reactionary ideals of the radical Muslims. Where we disagree is how to go about defeating them.

    Try to get it through your head that liberals despise people like Osama bin Laden more than many conservatives do. After all, bin Laden is against gay rights, women's rights, blew up a part of liberal New York City, and believes that there should be no separation between church and state. So, conservatives can find something to like about him, but liberals can find just about nothing. (Well, actually, I agree with him that one of the greatest crimes in history was when we used nuclear bombs on Japan.)

    But, again, we don't think the way conservatives favor wiping out terrorists is the right way. We think anyone who objectively looks at the world today should see that the world is a more dangerous place since Bush went into Iraq.
  3. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2004
    Messages:
    3,804
    Likes Received:
    45
    Ratings:
    +89 / 7 / -13

    #37 Jersey

    Did you miss the Christian riot that was held today? Oh wait, hmmmm, sorry :bricks:
  4. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    6,123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Oh, there's plenty liberals have in common with Osama..!! You both hate Israel, you both hate Christianity, you both stifle free speech at every opportunity, you both have no problem resorting to violence to reach your goals, you both favor oppressive governmental regimes and you both hate America, freedom and the West.
    Well, considering I probably wouldn't be here right now if we hadn't, then I'll have to disagree with you on this one.
    Exactly. Liberals think sitting around singing "Give Peace A Chance" will make America's enemies stop attacking. As far as I'm concerned, we gave peace a chance, it didn't work and all it got us was 3,000 American civilians dead.

    With all respect to John Lennon: All we are sayyyyyyy-ing... is give war a chance..!! And when I say "war" I mean real war. Not this half-assed fighting with both hands tied behind our backs more worried about the civil rights of terrorists than in our own soldiers' lives.

    I want to wipe the Islamo-fascists from the face of the planet before they nuke NY, LA or Washington DC. Unless we do something, then there will someday come a terrorist attack on America that makes September 11 look like a Sunday picnic at the beach.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2006
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,778
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +170 / 4 / -4

    What are you talking about? Liberals don't hate Israel at all, and up until the the Christian right came along were the leading proponents of Israel's right to exist. You're mixing up liberals and communists, I think. And, pleez, we do not hate Christianity. That's absurd. Jesus was the greatest liberal in history. And as far as free speech goes, you can't have it both ways, many liberals, like those in the ACLU support free speech for groups that we all detest. Liberals have always pushed the boundaries of free speech, and have always fought against conservative restrictions. That doesn't mean we won't play politics when necessary, but both sides do that.

    And war has killed another 3,000 Americans, not to mention 10s of 1000s of Iraqi civlians.

    What evidence do you have that the war on terrorism is making the terrorists weaker. One Senator has cited intelligence reports that say Al Qaeda has grown from 20,000 people in 2001 to 50,000 today. All we are doing is giving the terrorists a raison d'etre, giving them target practice, and allowing them to learn more about our military strengths and weaknesses. The terrorists are growing stronger the longer the war goes on. Soon they will be strong enough to attack again, so I don't think the war will make us safer.
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,956
    Likes Received:
    180
    Ratings:
    +408 / 5 / -2

    Well shet, had he only blown up the conservative part of NY, then heck, why would you care?


    One of the greatest crimes in history? Dude, have you any clue with respect to history? Do you know what invading the Japanese mainland would have been like? The costs in both Allied and civilian lives would have been 10-20 times worse. You people scare me.
  7. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,956
    Likes Received:
    180
    Ratings:
    +408 / 5 / -2

    QuiGon, quit wasting your time. They'll never get it.
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,778
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +170 / 4 / -4

    I would have, but we have our Ann Coulters and Pat Robertson's, too.

    The American propaganda from the time of the bombing until at least 25 years ago was that the Japanese were thoroughly insane and would have fought us to the last man. If you buy that piece of propaganda, then it could be argued that the A-bomb was necessary. On other hand, if you believe that the Nazis were at least as bad as the Japanese, it seems we had alternatives.
  9. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    6,123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Jesus was pro-choice, wanted to tax and spend and promotes homosexuality..? That's news to me...
    Bullcrap. The ACLU despises certain forms of free speech. If you want to pray before a football game in school or if you're a valedictorian that wants to thank the Lord, they will bring the hammer down on you so fast your head will spin.
    Well, there's the little fact that they haven't killed anyone on American soil since 9/11. What did you think..? They just stopped trying...?
    What evidence do you have they are stronger..? The fact that we've driven them to the caves of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, or the fact that we've killed and captured most of their command structure...?
  10. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    6,123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Yeah I'm starting to think you're right. Anyone that looks the Japanese D-Day we avoided by dropping the atom bombs and calls it "American propaganda" is just beyond hope.
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,956
    Likes Received:
    180
    Ratings:
    +408 / 5 / -2

    American propoganda? ROFL! The Japs slaughtered over 10,000,000 civilians in IndoChina from 1937 to 1945. They mutulated entire towns. Do you have any clue as to what you are talking about? Ever heard of the Kamakazee? How about how surendering japs used to put grenades in their arm pits so that when captured, and subsequently told to raise there arms, the nades would fall out and explode on them and the allied soldiers. Please dude. You need a clue. Watch the History Channel sometime, watch how the Japs had to be blown out of the caves on Iwo jima and Okinawa. You need a histroy lesson.
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    39,701
    Likes Received:
    157
    Ratings:
    +496 / 2 / -9

    You will never get a Liberal to believe something they don't want to believe, also, to a true Liberal America is always the "Bad Guy", always, except maybe when Clinton had his little war, they Idolized Clinton, he could do no wrong, ever.
  13. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    38,660
    Likes Received:
    374
    Ratings:
    +796 / 6 / -15

    #87 Jersey

    All I have to say is that the "Quran" is an amazing book. It is much more concrete in what it says than the Bible is. There are a few differences here of course.

    - Both believe in the same God but the Quran says that is "1" and the Bible goes with the Trinity theory.

    -Jesus is also God in the Bible but he is a prophet in the Quran.

    -Muhammad is a prophet in the Quran.

    One can get extremely technical here and this post would be way too long. For simplification, the theory(Christian view) vs Fact(Quran view) that Muhammad was a messenger of God causes all the problems and has led to Islamo-Fascism. Muhammad supposedly lived his life perfectly according to the Quran and his faith(servant) in(of) Allah.

    Now....the strictest Muslims say that only the Quran is acceptable.

    Along the way...Islamic Hadiths have been written. Some are valid, others are shams and the shams supposedly bred Islamo-Fascism. So, though these fanatics are clearly wrong...the Pope would have kept his pie hole shut...because even though he did not say it...he was referencing something that has little to no validity. He cannot say Muhammad was evil...because the factual story of Muhammad is a total mess.

    IMO ... if God were on the ball ... he could make a quick visit and tell the fanatics they have it wrong on Muhammad and he could tell the fanatic Christians they have no right telling others how they should live and there would be allot less killing in the world....Where are the Buddhists when you need them?
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,778
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +170 / 4 / -4

    The Japanese were awful during WWII, and they would have been a difficult enemy, but it was not necessary to use nuclear weapons, as most experts now agree. Further, killing so many innocent people and establishing nuclear weapons as a legitimate tool of war will prove more dangerous in the long term. I think you're a victim of WWII propaganda.

    Consider some of these quotes from Wikipedia:

    "The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace the atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan." Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet.

    "The use of [the atomic bombs] at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender." Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to President Truman.

    Here's another one:

    http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0806-25.htm:

    The question of military necessity can be quickly put to rest. "Japan was already defeated and dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary." Those are not the words of a latter-day revisionist historian or a leftist writer. They are certainly not the words of an America-hater. They are the words of Dwight D. Eisenhower, Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces in Europe and future president of the United States. Eisenhower knew, as did the entire senior U.S. officer corps, that by mid 1945 Japan was defenseless.

    You also might want to check this out:

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/kohls7.html

    I think you might have difficulty finding a scholar today -- left or right -- who still holds that view.
  15. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    6,123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Correction: As most liberal experts now agree when esposing their "blame the West" propaganda you enjoy so much. There are still plenty of experts - I would say a majority - who believe the atomic bombs were instrumental in saving tens of thousands of American lives.

    If you want to partake in a discussion, please give us some legitimate references. Quoting Wikipedia is no more accurate than quoting Nem. And quoting commondreams.org is like me quoting worldnetdaily.com. I mean, seriously... why don't you just quote the archives of Communist Russia while you're at it..? They're a little more unbiased than commondreams.org.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2006
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,778
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +170 / 4 / -4

    Please provide links to support your claim. I think you are wrong.

    Wikipedia is fine, and if you'd like you can crosscheck its references. Plus, I did provide two other references. Now, rather than give me that cop-out argument, why don't you provide something of substance for a change, rather than just sound like an ignorant old grouch.
  17. ELOrocks17

    ELOrocks17 Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Dont forget about the rape of Nan-King and dropping rats infected with Bubonic Plague into the population of China to kill more easily.
  18. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,778
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +170 / 4 / -4

    ELOrocks, no one is defending the Japanese. What I'm saying is that I trust Eisenhower, General Nimitz, and many others -- that it was unnecessary to use the atom bomb on Japan. So far, none of you who favored the nuclear mass slaughter of Japanese civilians has posted evidence to support your view.

    http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm

    A couple Eisenhower quotes

    "...in [July] 1945... Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. ...the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.

    "During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude..."

    - Dwight Eisenhower, Mandate For Change, pg. 380

    In a Newsweek interview, Eisenhower again recalled the meeting with Stimson:

    "...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."

    - Ike on Ike, Newsweek, 11/11/63

    Seems ironic than I'm attacking Truman, and you righties are defending him!
  19. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    39,701
    Likes Received:
    157
    Ratings:
    +496 / 2 / -9

    Thank your God that the Japs didn't get the Bomb FIRST
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,778
    Likes Received:
    132
    Ratings:
    +170 / 4 / -4

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>