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"Religion of Peace" rioting again

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by QuiGon, Sep 15, 2006.

  1. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Once again, showing how open minded, peaceful and tolerant they are, Muslims are all up in arms with their usual routine of rioting and death threats over something Pope Benedict said (actually, it was something Benedict quoted some other guy said about 600 years ago).

    Hey Patters, these are the people you want us to learn to understand and be friends with right...? I guess it's OK to have death threats against the Pope... but if they ever had a death threat against a homosexual, then you'd really be upset...!!
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    QuiGon, you and I have roughly the same goals: We both want to defeat the terrorists, and we both oppose the reactionary ideals of the radical Muslims. Where we disagree is how to go about defeating them.

    Try to get it through your head that liberals despise people like Osama bin Laden more than many conservatives do. After all, bin Laden is against gay rights, women's rights, blew up a part of liberal New York City, and believes that there should be no separation between church and state. So, conservatives can find something to like about him, but liberals can find just about nothing. (Well, actually, I agree with him that one of the greatest crimes in history was when we used nuclear bombs on Japan.)

    But, again, we don't think the way conservatives favor wiping out terrorists is the right way. We think anyone who objectively looks at the world today should see that the world is a more dangerous place since Bush went into Iraq.
  3. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    Did you miss the Christian riot that was held today? Oh wait, hmmmm, sorry :bricks:
  4. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Oh, there's plenty liberals have in common with Osama..!! You both hate Israel, you both hate Christianity, you both stifle free speech at every opportunity, you both have no problem resorting to violence to reach your goals, you both favor oppressive governmental regimes and you both hate America, freedom and the West.
    Well, considering I probably wouldn't be here right now if we hadn't, then I'll have to disagree with you on this one.
    Exactly. Liberals think sitting around singing "Give Peace A Chance" will make America's enemies stop attacking. As far as I'm concerned, we gave peace a chance, it didn't work and all it got us was 3,000 American civilians dead.

    With all respect to John Lennon: All we are sayyyyyyy-ing... is give war a chance..!! And when I say "war" I mean real war. Not this half-assed fighting with both hands tied behind our backs more worried about the civil rights of terrorists than in our own soldiers' lives.

    I want to wipe the Islamo-fascists from the face of the planet before they nuke NY, LA or Washington DC. Unless we do something, then there will someday come a terrorist attack on America that makes September 11 look like a Sunday picnic at the beach.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2006
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What are you talking about? Liberals don't hate Israel at all, and up until the the Christian right came along were the leading proponents of Israel's right to exist. You're mixing up liberals and communists, I think. And, pleez, we do not hate Christianity. That's absurd. Jesus was the greatest liberal in history. And as far as free speech goes, you can't have it both ways, many liberals, like those in the ACLU support free speech for groups that we all detest. Liberals have always pushed the boundaries of free speech, and have always fought against conservative restrictions. That doesn't mean we won't play politics when necessary, but both sides do that.

    And war has killed another 3,000 Americans, not to mention 10s of 1000s of Iraqi civlians.

    What evidence do you have that the war on terrorism is making the terrorists weaker. One Senator has cited intelligence reports that say Al Qaeda has grown from 20,000 people in 2001 to 50,000 today. All we are doing is giving the terrorists a raison d'etre, giving them target practice, and allowing them to learn more about our military strengths and weaknesses. The terrorists are growing stronger the longer the war goes on. Soon they will be strong enough to attack again, so I don't think the war will make us safer.
  6. Real World

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    Well shet, had he only blown up the conservative part of NY, then heck, why would you care?


    One of the greatest crimes in history? Dude, have you any clue with respect to history? Do you know what invading the Japanese mainland would have been like? The costs in both Allied and civilian lives would have been 10-20 times worse. You people scare me.
  7. Real World

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    QuiGon, quit wasting your time. They'll never get it.
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would have, but we have our Ann Coulters and Pat Robertson's, too.

    The American propaganda from the time of the bombing until at least 25 years ago was that the Japanese were thoroughly insane and would have fought us to the last man. If you buy that piece of propaganda, then it could be argued that the A-bomb was necessary. On other hand, if you believe that the Nazis were at least as bad as the Japanese, it seems we had alternatives.
  9. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Jesus was pro-choice, wanted to tax and spend and promotes homosexuality..? That's news to me...
    Bullcrap. The ACLU despises certain forms of free speech. If you want to pray before a football game in school or if you're a valedictorian that wants to thank the Lord, they will bring the hammer down on you so fast your head will spin.
    Well, there's the little fact that they haven't killed anyone on American soil since 9/11. What did you think..? They just stopped trying...?
    What evidence do you have they are stronger..? The fact that we've driven them to the caves of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, or the fact that we've killed and captured most of their command structure...?
  10. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Yeah I'm starting to think you're right. Anyone that looks the Japanese D-Day we avoided by dropping the atom bombs and calls it "American propaganda" is just beyond hope.
  11. Real World

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    American propoganda? ROFL! The Japs slaughtered over 10,000,000 civilians in IndoChina from 1937 to 1945. They mutulated entire towns. Do you have any clue as to what you are talking about? Ever heard of the Kamakazee? How about how surendering japs used to put grenades in their arm pits so that when captured, and subsequently told to raise there arms, the nades would fall out and explode on them and the allied soldiers. Please dude. You need a clue. Watch the History Channel sometime, watch how the Japs had to be blown out of the caves on Iwo jima and Okinawa. You need a histroy lesson.
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You will never get a Liberal to believe something they don't want to believe, also, to a true Liberal America is always the "Bad Guy", always, except maybe when Clinton had his little war, they Idolized Clinton, he could do no wrong, ever.
  13. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    All I have to say is that the "Quran" is an amazing book. It is much more concrete in what it says than the Bible is. There are a few differences here of course.

    - Both believe in the same God but the Quran says that is "1" and the Bible goes with the Trinity theory.

    -Jesus is also God in the Bible but he is a prophet in the Quran.

    -Muhammad is a prophet in the Quran.

    One can get extremely technical here and this post would be way too long. For simplification, the theory(Christian view) vs Fact(Quran view) that Muhammad was a messenger of God causes all the problems and has led to Islamo-Fascism. Muhammad supposedly lived his life perfectly according to the Quran and his faith(servant) in(of) Allah.

    Now....the strictest Muslims say that only the Quran is acceptable.

    Along the way...Islamic Hadiths have been written. Some are valid, others are shams and the shams supposedly bred Islamo-Fascism. So, though these fanatics are clearly wrong...the Pope would have kept his pie hole shut...because even though he did not say it...he was referencing something that has little to no validity. He cannot say Muhammad was evil...because the factual story of Muhammad is a total mess.

    IMO ... if God were on the ball ... he could make a quick visit and tell the fanatics they have it wrong on Muhammad and he could tell the fanatic Christians they have no right telling others how they should live and there would be allot less killing in the world....Where are the Buddhists when you need them?
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Japanese were awful during WWII, and they would have been a difficult enemy, but it was not necessary to use nuclear weapons, as most experts now agree. Further, killing so many innocent people and establishing nuclear weapons as a legitimate tool of war will prove more dangerous in the long term. I think you're a victim of WWII propaganda.

    Consider some of these quotes from Wikipedia:

    "The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace the atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan." Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet.

    "The use of [the atomic bombs] at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender." Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to President Truman.

    Here's another one:

    http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0806-25.htm:

    The question of military necessity can be quickly put to rest. "Japan was already defeated and dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary." Those are not the words of a latter-day revisionist historian or a leftist writer. They are certainly not the words of an America-hater. They are the words of Dwight D. Eisenhower, Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces in Europe and future president of the United States. Eisenhower knew, as did the entire senior U.S. officer corps, that by mid 1945 Japan was defenseless.

    You also might want to check this out:

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/kohls7.html

    I think you might have difficulty finding a scholar today -- left or right -- who still holds that view.
  15. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Correction: As most liberal experts now agree when esposing their "blame the West" propaganda you enjoy so much. There are still plenty of experts - I would say a majority - who believe the atomic bombs were instrumental in saving tens of thousands of American lives.

    If you want to partake in a discussion, please give us some legitimate references. Quoting Wikipedia is no more accurate than quoting Nem. And quoting commondreams.org is like me quoting worldnetdaily.com. I mean, seriously... why don't you just quote the archives of Communist Russia while you're at it..? They're a little more unbiased than commondreams.org.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2006
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Please provide links to support your claim. I think you are wrong.

    Wikipedia is fine, and if you'd like you can crosscheck its references. Plus, I did provide two other references. Now, rather than give me that cop-out argument, why don't you provide something of substance for a change, rather than just sound like an ignorant old grouch.
  17. ELOrocks17

    ELOrocks17 Guest

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    Dont forget about the rape of Nan-King and dropping rats infected with Bubonic Plague into the population of China to kill more easily.
  18. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ELOrocks, no one is defending the Japanese. What I'm saying is that I trust Eisenhower, General Nimitz, and many others -- that it was unnecessary to use the atom bomb on Japan. So far, none of you who favored the nuclear mass slaughter of Japanese civilians has posted evidence to support your view.

    http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm

    A couple Eisenhower quotes

    "...in [July] 1945... Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. ...the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.

    "During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude..."

    - Dwight Eisenhower, Mandate For Change, pg. 380

    In a Newsweek interview, Eisenhower again recalled the meeting with Stimson:

    "...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."

    - Ike on Ike, Newsweek, 11/11/63

    Seems ironic than I'm attacking Truman, and you righties are defending him!
  19. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thank your God that the Japs didn't get the Bomb FIRST
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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  21. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Are these disparaging, Swede, Greek, Brit, Mick, Canuck, Yank, Scot, ect what has the politically correct little liberal mind come up with now that makes the word "Jap" wrong, IT'S SHORT FOR JAPanese, for Christ's Sake.

    Dig up some old NY Times headlines from the late thirties and early forties, do liberals have a little room somewhere in Berkley where they dream up all this silly sh!t just to aggravate us normal people, this is a new one on me, during the War they called themselves "Japs", God Called Them Japs, so did John Wayne.
  22. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Well, that's the difference. You think I'm wrong, but I know I'm right. I believe the statement stands well enough on its own that any reasonable adult would accept it as it stands. Meanwhile members of the ultra radical left, such as yourself, will never believe what I say so I have no obligation to further support my statement. You're obviously dedicated to believing whatever the heck you want to believe, and it is your constitutional right to wallow in ignorance.
    Sorry, but it does not fall upon me to cross check a refernece you gave to support your contention. Wikipedia is most certainly not fine, and now I am even reading reports about people deliberately sabotaging Wiki, which amuses me to no end. Look, there's nothing wrong with making a statement and standing by it without references (like I did above)... Just don't insult our collective intelligence by thinking you're giving a legitimate reference when all you've done is quoted Wikipedia (the free encyclopedia any idiot can edit) and some ultra radical left wing website.
    I have stated my opinion, there are plenty of experts that agree with it, and I stand by my statements. As far as I'm concerne, the fact that you (a proud member of the "blame America and the west first" crowd) disagree with me only reinforces the righteousness of my opinion.
  23. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You said nothing in your post and presented nothing of substance, QuiGon. Why are you participating here if you don't believe you can present information that can make your case? I think your opinions are worthless because you fail to back them up with links or facts, and don't even cite any experts. If you want to discuss a point of view, then offer something more than an emotional response.
  24. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I didn't make it a warning, simply posted in for your information. I'm just trying to be fair (and in fairness, you're not the first to use the term), and would do the same is someone used mick for an Irish person. Can't have different sets of rules for different races, you know.
  25. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I understand I didn't take it as a warning, it's a good thing some of todays liberals didn't grow up in my day, you wouldn't believe the names we called each other and no offense was taken, for example, we had a guy on our corner who had Polio in his arm, it left his arm shrunken and slightly bent, his name was Arthur Gurney (not real) all through life right up to the time of his death he was known as "Rotten Arm Gurney" as he grew older it was shortened to just plain "Rot" his wife called him "Rot" for all the years they were married, she signed her Xmas Cards ANN & ROT.

    We had another one who died at the age of 23 from consumption, his name was "Hocka Lunga" just plain "Hock" for short, to this day when some of us that are left get together if he should be thought of it is always "Remember Hocka"
    I won't even mention the Racial things we said to each other, but, times change.

    In those days the Irish called themselves "Micks" it was short for "Mickey"

    Soon all "Nicknames" will be Taboo.
    Greasy Village, located in Cambridgeport, Corner Brookline & Putnam Avenue Cambridge Ma. had my first sexual encounter in Fort Washington, thats where I grew up, we had every nationality on the planet living there, except Eskimos.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2006
  26. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I am giving an opinion and you disagree. Why does this upset you so much...? Why are you so afraid to simply agree to disagree..? You get outraged at the fact that not everyone subscribes to your anti-American agenda.
    This from the guy who's links are wikipedia (the free encyclopedia any moron can edit) and some ultra radical left wing websites.
    I am not being emotional. I don't cite any experts because I know you're beyond hope with your "Blame America first" agenda. Tell ya what... answer me this and I'll give you experts: How many experts should I cite in order to get you to change your mind...?

    Something tells me you'll avoid that question.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2006
  27. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    QuiGon, I have no stake on the issue of our bombing Hiroshima. If you can find a good argument on why it was necessary, I'd be happy to read it. I'd love to break company with the conservative Herbert Hoover and National Review, and say that Truman was right. But, from what I know about the issue, there's a very convincing case to be made that the bombs were dropped more to test of their impact and capability in war than as a necessary means of stopping the Japanese.

    At this point, I believe you know nothing about this subject other than what you learned in high school. And, now, you feel threatened so you're insulting me. All I'm asking is that you offer some facts to support your view. You can even use Wikipedia (which you find quite good if you ever looked)

    As far as the Eisenhower quote, if you don't like Wikipedia, maybe you can choose one of these:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...cious of a feeling of depression"&btnG=Search
  28. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    America was on the winning side of WWII, there are many in today's College's and people who teach in those College's that don't like that Fact.

    There is a move on in this country to "rewrite history" those doing the
    "rewriting" are doing their best to make America the "bad guy" througout history.

    Was the bombing of Pearl Harbor a bad thing?

    Was the slaughter in China and the Bayoneting of little children in front of their mothers during the thirties by the (Japanese) a bad thing.

    Was the Battan Death March a bad thing?

    There is a segment of our American society that wants us to lose every war we fight in, the thing is, suppose their dreams come true, we lose, we are defeated, people like the "Smelly Muslim Terrorists" take over, NOW, what happens to them, the America Bashers? The terrorists will never trust them after all they have already turned on their own people and country so there is only way to deal with them, Cut Their
    F-cking Heads Off.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2006
  29. ELOrocks17

    ELOrocks17 Guest

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    Thats the problem with liberals...To them, it doesn't martter how many Americans get killed, as long as we protect Muslim sensebilities and dont offend any foreigners.
  30. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, ELOrocks, it's your war that's killed 3,000 soldiers in Iraq, so far. If it was up to liberals, those soldiers would not have been in Iraq.

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