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Relevant videotaping official rules and memo snippets


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He did, didn't he. "The rule is taping of offensive or defensive signals."

He appears to be referencing the Anderson memo.

I was hoping for him or the reporters specifically refer the rule on taping coaches.


Unless there is more to the Anderson memo that hasn't been quoted, I know of nothing that says taping coaches hand and arm movements is prohibited in and of itself.

I'm not sure what's up here, but we've all seen the rule, the manual, and the memo.

All are perfectly clear that taping is allowed in the appropriate locations and conditions.

The rules set by the NFL are VERY clear about that.

If Goodell or his spokesmen are deciding to change that on the fly, in an effort to avoid negative press for having rules that allow taping of signals, then THAT in turn should be a major story and scandal.

Teams are required to follow the rules. They cannot be required to follow whatever daily interpretation that the Commissioner or his spokespeople might have, depending on whether they think its the answer the public might want to hear.

Note that Mike Reiss today asked for clarification on this matter from a league spokesman - and even went so far as to illustrate an appropriate location from which taping could be conducted that was consistent with the rules set by the NFL.

The response he recieved was that taping of signals is illegal REGARDLESS of location - even though the rules set by the NFL say otherwise.

I'm hoping he or some other member of the media challenges the Commissioner's office on this. If they mean "regardless of location" they need to say "regardless of location" in the rules.

The rules currently say otherwise, and given a chance to clarify that in 2006, the NFL reaffirmed that taping was allowed in different locations.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=82672
 
Note that Mike Reiss today asked for clarification on this matter from a league spokesman - and even went so far as to illustrate an appropriate location from which taping could be conducted that was consistent with the rules set by the NFL.

The response he recieved was that taping of signals is illegal REGARDLESS of location - even though the rules set by the NFL say otherwise.


Baffling.

One would think the NFL would pull out or invent a definition of "coaching video" or "game video" and hide behind that.

Instead of "because it is."

Strange how we've been bombarded with page 105 and the Anderson memo, but nothing else to say that taping coaches' hand signals is prohibited.

I hoped Reiss responded "and that is not based upon the Anderson memo, but something else, right?"

In another thead someone mentioned a Reiss converstaion with a NFL person who said it's always been prohibited, just never enforced. That doesn't even make sense. How has it been prohibited? A document? Word of mouth? thought travel? Vulca Mind Melds?

Why can't a NFL person just say when it became prohibited? Jimmy Johnson's description of his taping appears to be within the rules. Just say so.

Didn't Goodell say "longstanding rules" ? He must have be referring to something. The NFL can't document that?
 
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Baffling.

One would think the NFL would pull out or invent a definition of "coaching video" or "game video" and hide behind that.

Instead of "because it is."

Strange how we've been bombarded with page 105 and the Anderson memo, but nothing else to say that taping coaches' hand signals is prohibited.

I hoped Reiss responded "and that is not based upon the Anderson memo, but something else, right?"

In another thead someone mentioned a Reiss converstaion with a NFL person who said it's always been prohibited, just never enforced. That doesn't even make sense. How has it been prohibited? A document? Word of mouth? thought travel? Vulca Mind Melds?

Why can't a NFL person just say when it became prohibited? Jimmy Johnson's description of his taping appears to be within the rules. Just say so.

Didn't Goodell say "longstanding rules" ? He must have be referring to something. The NFL can't document that?


What this comes down to is that teams that follow the rules 100% to the letter of the law can find that Goodell has changed the rule on a whim (or in reality, because he wants to avoid being embarrassed in public).

So they might as well scrap the entire rulebook and just let Goodell decide on a daily basis what rules exist and how he wants to enforce them against which team.

I'm enbellishing to a degree but that's the precedent Goodell is setting here - he's not just judge jury and executioner - he's taken away all authority on setting rules away from the NFL owners - and they are willing to stand for it.
 
Pre-MEMO: Help me understand

Before the memo came out the rule was very unclear. Typcially, ambiguous language in interpreted to the detriment of the drafter. Sooooo, how is video taping material that is NOT used during the playing of a game, that is not AIDING a team during the game ILLEGAL?????

"Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."
 
Re: Pre-MEMO: Help me understand

Iron,

That was all cleared up with the 2006 memo that either:


a) prohibited taping of any type from certain locations

or


b) prohibited taping of any type from all locations​


What's so hard to understand? The memo is CLEAR.
 
My subject line says PRE-MEMO...Post memo is also debatable, but pre-memo is what I am wondering about. Capish?
 
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Now That We Know the Deal

That the Pats were not using the video during the game (confirmed by Walsh), our pre-2006 video taping practices were LEGAL. READ THE CONSTITUTION AND BYLAWS.

The tainted SB thing is CRAP. The only thing that you can call tainted is the 2006 season and the first quarter of the Jets game in 07.

No one is going to tell me the NFL was unaware of our taping practices from 2000-2006. Our guys were in plain view. Coaches were waving back to the cameras. The NFL's lack of clarification and or action is an indication of legality. If I blow by a state trooper doing 55mph for 6 years and never get a ticket, I think I can assume that I am in compliance with the law. Now that we have more information and the speculation is over, lets get the story straight.
 
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My subject line says PRE-MEMO...Post memo is also debatable, but pre-memo is what I am wondering about. Capish?

Sorry Iron, I guess you didn't understand the tenor of my reply. I suggest you read this thread or the many before it.
 
Re: Now That We Know the Deal

No sports writer has to take that into account because A-hole Goodell said he never bought BB's interpretation, and in fact the A-Hole commish took "Matt's" word over BB's in this case.

Therefore, all sports writers conclude that taping before 2006 was illegal as well.

This is all on Goodell.
 
Re: Now That We Know the Deal

Probably true. With the next step being BB's take of "Can a memo override the league bylaws?" He was undoubtedly doubting that after the instances of 2006 (specifically the Jets at Gillette) that merited nary a blip on the radar screen.

Either way the memo is clear. The media's take on the advantages gained by violating this memo is asinine.
 
Sorry Iron, I guess you didn't understand the tenor of my reply. I suggest you read this thread or the many before it.

No problem. Much of the old threads are based on speculation. People thought we were using the film during a game. Now we have facts: The tapes were NOT used during a game. Confirmed. There is footage of the coaches waving back in the cameras. There is footage of our camera guys filming in front of the scoreboards, in plain view.

Based on this, my feeling is pre-2006, we did nothing illegal. I am in agreement with BB (below):

“My interpretation of the NFL rules came from the Constitution & Bylaws. I think it’s paragraph 14 there, the Constitution & Bylaws states, very clearly, that you can not use any type of videotaping device or anything like that, from the start of the game, to the conclusion of the game. That was never done. We never ever, ever used any of the videotaping in any way during the course of any game. That’s what I felt like I was in compliance with, and that’s what my basis for really everything that we’ve done in terms of competing in the National Football League.”

His interpretation is reasonable. Ambiguous rules are usually interpreted to the benefit of the non-drafter. Meaning BB!
 
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Re: Now That We Know the Deal

Probably true. With the next step being BB's take of "Can a memo override the league bylaws?" He was undoubtedly doubting that after the instances of 2006 (specifically the Jets at Gillette) that merited nary a blip on the radar screen.

Either way the memo is clear. The media's take on the advantages gained by violating this memo is asinine.

You want to call us cheaters, then do it for the 2006 season and part of 2007. To call the Superbowls tainted, or say we cheated pre-2006 is WRONG.
 
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Re: Now That We Know the Deal

You want to call us cheaters, then do it for the 2006 season and part of 2007. To call the Superbowls tainted, or say we cheated pre-2006 is WRONG.

I'm not arguing with you.
 
Re: Now That We Know the Deal

Do some of you REALLY still want to talk about this ? Do you talk about you ex girlfriends on first dates ?

IT'S OVER.
 
Pats1 et al

I had posted this in another thread - with some embellishments above and beyond this about Goodell, but I'll leave out the comments about Goodell here and just pose my incredulous question about how Goodell could ever have legitimately made the ruling that he did.

A couple pre-comments:
1) anybody have a good contact of an English professor specializing in sentence structure and grammatical construction ? I'd love to hear their analysis on what meaning is appropriate from the actual wording of the Constitution/Bylaw and the memo.
2) there have been comments about the memo not having authority over the Constitution/Bylaws. However, the memo, to me, ALSO HAS THE CAVEAT of "accessible to club staff members during the game. " and is no more restrictive than the Constitution/Bylaw !! !!
3) I am beginning to think that the Krafts made a HUGE HUGE HUGE mistake by not challenging Goodell right then and there. I can't see how Goodell could have supported his flawed ruling in the face of a serious challenge at that time based on the actual wording of the pertinent sections. Belichick must be so sick at heart because this hasn't been challenged - I can't imagine.

=====================================

Let's go back to the basics in this whole affair (courtesy of Mike Reiss who once again was a stellar NEWS reporter giving his readers solid information): http://www.boston.com/sports/footbal...aping_rul.html

From Mike's blog item, we get the following - [bolded/underlined print is my emphasis and was not in Mike's blog item]:


'In the league's Constitution & Bylaws, it reads: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game." '

OK. By it's wording, the proscription in this paragraph IS in relation to: that might aid a team during the playing of a game." Ask any English professor if this paragraph can be construed in a more general sense and they will tell you that the last phrase limits the whole paragraph. You probably don't want to go to that trouble, so use a common sense test. If you read it as a general prohibition, note that information-gathering equipment is not to this day prohibited in general - as we all know, teams make full tapes of the games !! So, to reiterate, this paragraph can only be applied in the context of:: that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

Now, let's go to the infamous September 6, 2006 memo (again, courtesy of Mike in the above URL reference):

'In a memo to NFL head coaches and general managers on Sept. 6, 2006, NFL executive vice president of football operations Ray Anderson wrote: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game." '

Are you beginning to see something here ?? This paragraph is completely limited in scope by the last phrase: accessible to club staff members during the game. In plain English, you can't generalize beyond that phrase.
 
Re: Now That We Know the Deal

Do some of you REALLY still want to talk about this ? Do you talk about you ex girlfriends on first dates ?

IT'S OVER.

im just as tired of talking and hearing about this as u....but lets face it

its NOT over

and i suspect it wont be for a long, long time
 
(I haven't read through the entire thread so my apologies if I'm re-stating something)

The Constitution and ByLaws indicate that the Pats did break the rules. Belichick is arguing that he didn't use the tape during the game, but it doesn't matter if he used it or not because the C & BL says that it is prohibited to use equipment that "might aid" - intent is irrelevant. The action is prohibited.
 
(I haven't read through the entire thread so my apologies if I'm re-stating something)

The Constitution and ByLaws indicate that the Pats did break the rules. Belichick is arguing that he didn't use the tape during the game, but it doesn't matter if he used it or not because the C & BL says that it is prohibited to use equipment that "might aid" - intent is irrelevant. The action is prohibited.


How is it that you are ignoring the rest of the language in a rule? I think it is clear that the kind of "aid" being contemplated is during the course of the actual game. Especially in light of the fact that certain taping that "might aid" IS legal.
 
(I haven't read through the entire thread so my apologies if I'm re-stating something)

The Constitution and ByLaws indicate that the Pats did break the rules. Belichick is arguing that he didn't use the tape during the game, but it doesn't matter if he used it or not because the C & BL says that it is prohibited to use equipment that "might aid" - intent is irrelevant. The action is prohibited.

Actually, for me, the bigger issue is this one (which I hadn't seen), from the Game Operations Manual.

V. Miscellaneous Rules and Regulations

A. No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game.


B. If clubs believe that violations of any of the Origination, Editing, Exchange, or Shipping rules have occurred, such violations should be brought to the attention of the Vice President of Officiating. Also, please inform the Video Directors Committee of any known violations. The Competition Committee will also urge that the Commissioner take appropriate disciplinary action in cases of substantiated violations.

C. Teams will be required to supply a yearly allotment of tapes to the Dub Center at NFL Films. Quantity required per club will be given to each team by May prior to the upcoming season. Tape stock will consist of brand-new 62-minute Beta SX tapes. For the 2007 season, 4,400 NEW tapes will be required.

D. To ensure the protection of equipment and employees of the team's video departments, please follow the guidelines listed for the video shooting locations at your stadium:

-All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.

-Any doors entering the shooting locations within the public seating areas of the stadium are required to be lockable from both the inside and the outside of the location to prevent unwarranted access.

-All locations must have climate control (heat and/or fans). Any heaters and/or fans must be completely operational and produce the effect that is required. Heaters that do not produce any heat should be replaced.

-All locations must supply adequate power for each team (at least two outlets per team).

-All locations must be installed with the required video printer lines from both the sideline and the end zone shooting locations to the coaches' booth and field. It is not required that wiring be installed for the opposite end zone position, but if the opposite end zone is wired for the home team, it must also be wired for the visiting team. Home teams must provide visiting teams with the same situational set up for printers that they have themselves (i.e. cover, placement behind the bench, etc.)

-It is suggested that each location provide either countertop space or tables for both teams in the booth and a table on the field and coaches' booth.

Please ascertain that your club is in compliance with these guidelines.

That seem pretty specific and does it overrule the one in the C&BL?
 
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