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Relevant videotaping official rules and memo snippets

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by pats1, May 11, 2008.

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  1. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Since this seems to be a topic that many fans and members of the media are even unclear on. Keep in mind these are only from the 2007 season. I have yet to find an accurate history of when each rule came into being or had its wording changed. Relevant portions are in bold:

    NFL Policy Manual for Member Clubs, Volume II: NFL Game Operations Manual, General, Pages A105-A106:

    NFL Constitution and Bylaws:

    September 2006 memorandum by NFL Executive Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson:

    I'll sticky it later, but not yet since stickied threads are often overlooked, ironically.
    Last edited: May 11, 2008
  2. Keegs

    Keegs Rookie

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  3. flasox27

    flasox27 Rookie

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    #54 Jersey

    You don't get it . You mean you never heard of the magical mutual consent rule written in invisible ink that supercedes all rules and memos and allows the Jets to tape the Pats without penalty even when there isn't mutual consent.
    There is a variation of this magical rule that applies when the Titans and Colts agreed to fix a game later in the year.
  4. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    This absolutely must be stickied.
  5. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    I propose a short list of yes/no questions and a choice of essay that we can pose to the "Pats are cheaters!" crowd:

    According to NFL rules and bylaws, stealing signals is illegal: yes or no?

    According to NFL rules and bylaws, videotaping is illegal: yes or no?

    According to NFL rules and bylaws, videotaping signals for use in future games is illegal: yes or no?

    According to common sense, it's possible to view tape, decipher it, and put it to use using video equipment that isn't allowed in a locker room anyway...all in twelve minutes: yes or no?

    According to NFL rules and bylaws, videotaping signals from a space that is enclosed on three sides is legal: yes or no?

    According to NFL rules and bylaws, videotaping signals from the sidelines or any other areas accessible to staff members is illegal: yes or no?

    According to NFL rules and bylaws, taping from an area that is not enclosed and is accessible to staff employees is legal if consent is given: yes or no?

    According to Greg Aiello, taping from an area that is not enclosed and is accessible to Jets staff employees is legal if consent is given: yes or no?

    Essay Choice #1: Why were the Pats hammered?

    Essay Choice #2: Why weren't the Jets disciplined in the same fashion?
  6. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    You are on the right track with this. I suggest we provide our own informative accurate and honest answers to these questions (perhaps leaving out the essay questions because they're speculative in nature). Then we should list relevant quotes from Goodell and BB. All should be preceded by the rules as already noted. Packaged together we have a logical summary of "spygate" for rational minds. Anytime someone launches into the "Pats are cheaters" bullshyte, we can present that to them and walk away. It will represent the definitive response.

    How about it, Pats1?
  7. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There's an effort a lot like that underway... fgssand is now the best lead contact for it. Ask him about FRAMe -- I think Pats1 has seen it too. It's still embryonic, but the details of the rules are a big part of it (the Jets caper in particular is mentioned prominently)
  8. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    From what I gathered from Reiss, that cameraman was most likely working in a Brian Lowe/in-house production type of role. A poster on a Jets messageboard seemed to confirm that too, IIRC.
  9. Hardboiled

    Hardboiled Rookie

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    Sweetness.
  10. Zeke_Mowatt

    Zeke_Mowatt Rookie

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    Pats1, any links to either of these that you had stored? I'd love to see the Jets or fans acknowledge that the dude in the pic was a Jets employee...in-house production seems like a non-issue given the letter of the law as you posted above, as I read it?
  11. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not sure. Obviously cameras like NFL Films, TV stations, etc. are allowed. The Pats have never had a problem taping for then Patriots Video News, or now Patriots Today. Brian Lowe once got nailed by Rodney on the sideline in 2003 while taping the game.

    The Jets employee post:

    http://www.jetsinsider.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2076299

    Here's what Mike Reiss said to me (remember that Mike used to work for Patriots Football Weekly and knows Brian Lowe well):

    Of this picture (the more famous ones of the videographer in the dark green shirt): http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/kurtinelson/MysteryJetvideoguy.jpg?t=1189729796

    Mike: "he could be from the in-house jets tv crew, which would be different."

    Of this picture: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...hment.php?attachmentid=863&stc=1&d=1189866461

    Mike: "same thing. the pats use that too with their in-house crew."

    Here's that megathread: http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=60830

    This was back on September 15.
    Last edited: May 11, 2008
  12. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #17 Jersey

    I have the document available to send to anybody that PM's me with email.

    We can make this part of any larger effort undertaken by any body.

    I think it fits with the spirit of this thread.

    Pats1 has seen it I do believe?
  13. wahwho

    wahwho Rookie

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    Does anybody have a link to the NFL press release from September that states the punishment was for recording of offensive and defensive signals? It was referenced in an article a couple days ago, but I couldn't find it on the NFL's site.
  14. Zeke_Mowatt

    Zeke_Mowatt Rookie

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    Am I reading right that after 35 pages with no real answers, one guy posted that he saw the dude in a black nfl films vest and the whole issue died? (not literally died, but that seems like the end of the patsfans investigation?)

    There were a few references like MiDeuce and DaBruinz who supposedly had media people who were going to get back to them...did those things ever get brought up in a different thread or something? Sorry to sound foolish, I came late to the game here so I missed much of the frenzy that surrounded the initial debacle, so I feel like I'm playing catchup to an extent, but reading through that 35 page novella, I still didn't see anyone who could identify that guy, and 1 post where he was said to be wearing an nfl films vest in one game (not the other 2 cited) and that was the end. Did I miss other threads about it? What's an "in house crew" and how does that differ from advance scouting (production value? presumptive use?) Curious, not being a dick here (or not trying to ;) )
  15. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The in-house production would be done by non-football operations people.
  16. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, I have.
  17. ChockBlkr

    ChockBlkr Rookie

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    Sorry if this has been asked 100 times already, but is the offense for which our team was charged - videotaping signals - even a rule in any rulebook or is the only mention of whether it is or isn't allowable that one memo sent in early 2006? And if that is the case then what was the precedent or justification for such an over the top, severe punishment? This situation makes less and less practicle sense every day.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2008
  18. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Did anyone else notice how Anderson's memo essentially prohibits regular game taping that all teams do? That tape, as described in the rules, is accessible to the team via video printers. It's a real odd memo, if you ask me.
  19. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last edited: May 11, 2008
  20. castlelong1

    castlelong1 Banned

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    Jets suck. No one hates the team they beat easily. :D
    (I probably agree with you, but logic need not apply to Goodell. No, I don't think he is malicious, I think he is incompetent, Peter principle example.)
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