Reiss see offense in state of flux after loss to Arizona and wonders why

[JackBauer]

Until someone provides a better explanation, I'm going to continue to assume that Welker is less than 100%, and has come kind of a wear-and-tear injury that Belichick is trying to prevent from getting worse. Any other explanation, which involves Welker being fully available but not being used for some other reason, simply doesn't fit his MO.

Wasn't the speculation that WW might be dealing with concussion side effects? Might explain that rumor that he's just not seeing the ball as well as he typically does...

 

[yukon cornelius]

Patriots are seriously committing to an effective run game long term. In past years, they abandoned the run too quickly. As the season progressed, they became more and more one dimensional, and we all know how that has worked out come January.

This offense is in a state of change. They are going to make a viable running attack come hell or high water. They have the tools, it will just take time. Some of the play calling yesterday drove me a little batty; I wanted them to go old school Brady Patriots and chuck it. They are staying the course, however, and not falling to past practice, which led to past failure, IMHO.

The Hernandez factor concerns me, but I am far more concerned with the product out there come December and January. Building a strong rushing attack, achieving a more balanced approach, will serve them well when it counts. I'll take a bump in the road and no ligament damage (fingers crossed) in Week 2 to get there.

 

[Ring 6]

Welker is going to need to play a lot more next week for them to have a chance

He played 63 plays and had 11 targets and 95 receiving yards

 

[Ring 6]

Keep in mind BB is the guy who benched Welker two years ago because of some Rex Ryan foot jokes. BB is absolutely sticking it to Welker and proving a point by making him what is the third option. Unfortunately his stubbornness hurt this teams chances yesterday.

He played 63 plays and had 11 targets.
Was he sticking it to him last year? 2010? 2009? 2008? 2007?
I think you will find that 63 snaps and 11 targets is close to, if not higher than his Patriot career average.

 

[BradyManny]

This could be the case. Look at the first play of the game. It was an INT caused by a tip at the line. Obviously, if Gresh's theory is right, Edelman wasn't the primary target on the play and Brady checked down to him.

Of course, I would argue Edelman didn't really have good separation on that play from my memory of it. Welker might've been gotten more separation, presented a better target, and led to a better throw from Brady. Brady, himself, said when he gets indecisive, he misses low.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

He played 63 plays and had 11 targets and 95 receiving yards

Do you think he still would have had that if hernandez didn't get hurt?

I meant that he has to start over edelman next week

 

[12ClutchFactor]

He played 63 plays and had 11 targets and 95 receiving yards

Clearly, only because Hernandez got hurt. Edelman was on track to be on the field with their base and most used personnel grouping, the 22.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Ummm....

A WW-centric offense with little run/pass balance got to within a couple minutes of winning the Super Bowl. By no means did it prove itself unsustainable in the post season.

Frankly, the defenders and homers are embarrassing themselves in these threads by making claims such as the one you've made.

Yes the offense single-handedly carried the team through the POs and then lost in the SB despite scoring a record setting 17pts, and I'm the one embarrassing myself...

Just to be clear; I think your post is nonsense. You've added nothing to this conversation. You used team achievements to try to justify a point of view that you're either unable to or too lazy to justify with data that actually pertains to it. This would be akin to me saying the defense was obviously really good because of the regular season record. The craziest part is that you're using a team achievement to try to vilify the coaching staff. The fact that this franchise has been so successful over the past decade and was in the SB last season seems like the farthest thing from proof that people suggesting that the coaching staff might have a valid strategy or reason for what they're doing so far this season are blind, ignorant homers.

 

[JJDChE]

Clearly, only because Hernandez got hurt. Edelman was on track to be on the field with their base and most used personnel grouping, the 22.

Hernandez got injured on the 3rd play from scrimmage. The only thing that is clear is that you are making baseless assumptions to promote your agenda.

 

[BradyManny]

He played 63 plays and had 11 targets and 95 receiving yards

Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard
Patriots played 15 snaps of "12" personnel (1 RB, 2 TEs). Welker played 2 snaps. Edelman played 13.

The Hernandez injury obviously changed things. But there is no denying who was the 1 in the 12 personnel going into yesterday's game...it was not Wes Welker.

 

[JJDChE]

Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard
Patriots played 15 snaps of "12" personnel (1 RB, 2 TEs). Welker played 2 snaps. Edelman played 13.

The Hernandez injury obviously changed things. But there is no denying who was the 1 in the 12 personnel going into yesterday's game...it was not Wes Welker.

Sounds like a running formation. How many times did they throw to Edelman in those 15 snaps?

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes the offense single-handedly carried the team through the POs and then lost in the SB despite scoring a record setting 17pts, and I'm the one embarrassing myself...

The offense got the team to the SB, and to within minutes of winning said SB. Yes, you are the one embarrassing himself, since you claimed that the offense proved unsustainable in the post-season, particularly since your claim ignored the clear impact of Gronk's injury. There's a difference between broadening out a WR corps and augmenting the running game, and changing significantly away from a "WW-centric offense with little run/pass balance". I was wildly in favor of adding a WR to the group, and have been touting it for years. That's doesn't require that the team throw out the baby with the bath water, as it were.

Just to be clear; I think your post is nonsense. You've added nothing to this conversation. You used team achievements to try to justify a point of view that you're either unable to or too lazy to justify with data that actually pertains to it. This would be akin to me saying the defense was obviously really good because of the regular season record. The craziest part is that you're using a team achievement to try to vilify the coaching staff. The fact that this franchise has been so successful over the past decade and was in the SB last season seems like the farthest thing from proof that people suggesting that the coaching staff might have a valid strategy or reason for what they're doing so far this season are blind, ignorant homers.

Since your comment "A WW-centric offense with little run/pass balance has proven itself unsustainable in the post season" is a team thing, responding by pointing out team achievements of that same offense is the proper response.

I'm sorry that your argument sucked, but it's not my fault that it did.

 

[BradyManny]

Sounds like a running formation. How many times did they throw to Edelman in those 15 snaps?

Not sure, would be worth looking into and hopefully Bedard updates with that. Obviously two passes spring to mind (the INT and the screen to Edelman that Hernandez got hurt on).

 

[Ring 6]

Clearly, only because Hernandez got hurt. Edelman was on track to be on the field with their base and most used personnel grouping, the 22.

How is that 'clear'?

 

[Ring 6]

Greg A. Bedard ‏@GregABedard
Patriots played 15 snaps of "12" personnel (1 RB, 2 TEs). Welker played 2 snaps. Edelman played 13.

The Hernandez injury obviously changed things. But there is no denying who was the 1 in the 12 personnel going into yesterday's game...it was not Wes Welker.

Hernandez played 3 plays. You are now saying that what happened 3 plays is proof of what would happen on 75?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Clearly, only because Hernandez got hurt. Edelman was on track to be on the field with their base and most used personnel grouping, the 22.

Hernandez got hurt on one of the Patriots' first offensive plays. How can you claim to know what was 'on track' to happen when there's no real body of work to refer to?

 

[Deus Irae]

Hernandez played 3 plays. You are now saying that what happened 3 plays is proof of what would happen on 75?

Hernandez got hurt on one of the Patriots' first offensive plays. How can you claim to know what was 'on track' to happen when there's no real body of work to refer to?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/945776-welker-not-starting-being-overblown.html#post3152359

 

[1%er]

He seemed plenty fast enough on his TD run.

ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD REC YDS AVG LNG TD FUM 14 38 2.7 10 0 1 1 12 12.0 12 0 0

He has not scored a touchdown this season..

You must be referring to the one that got called back? I look at players based on what actually counts not what I think should or shouldn't of counted.

 

[Deus Irae]

ATT YDS AVG LNG TD FD REC YDS AVG LNG TD FUM 14 38 2.7 10 0 1 1 12 12.0 12 0 0

He has not scored a touchdown this season..

You must be referring to the one that got called back? I look at players based on what actually counts not what I think should or shouldn't of counted.

His TD run was clean. If you're ignoring those plays, you're not really making good analysis.