Reiss see offense in state of flux after loss to Arizona and wonders why

[randomk1]

especially when you factor in just how good the Cardinals defense is, which seems to be going under the radar.

Funny. You should read the thread about the cardinals before the game. They just beat scrubs.

 

[PatsBoy12]

I assume by 200 you meant 2007? Well in 2008 he made Matt Cassel look like a somewhat competent QB and again in 2009 made Kyle Orton look competent for a while.

As for drafting Tebow, he also drafted the following offensive players for Denver:

Demaryius Thomas - starting WR
Eric Decker - starting WR
J.D. Walton - starting C
Zane Beadles -starting G
Knowshon Moreno - backup RB

Not bad for his first go as a head coach really. As for why BB has faith in him - probably because he's one of the better OC's in the league and just because yesterday wasn't great it doesn't reflect on his true ability, especially when you factor in just how good the Cardinals defense is, which seems to be going under the radar.

You make good points here. I didn't hear any of this "Josh sucks" talk when they brought him in during the playoffs last season. Every post I read was about how excited everybody was. Now, all of a sudden, he sucks. Bad games happen. Bad coaching happens. It doesn't mean these guys suck all of a sudden. Win or lose, I'm sure we'll see a better team and better coaching next week. If the Pats lose, it won't be because of bad coaching or mental errors. It will be because the Ravens are the better team that day.

 

[UK_Pat37]

For me it seems the Patriots are resigned to the fact that it doesn't look like Welker is a Patriot next season. The general consensus is Edelman had a great camp and he's the closest thing we have to long term and young at the position. I felt we were going to phase him in anyway but it seems like the Patriots are saying that if you can't buy into our line of thinking, we will put someone in who does.

I like the extra reps that Edelman is getting. If Welker is gone next season, it's all on him and more than likely a rookie draft choice at he number two spot...unless Salas really excels. So he needs the experience.

 

[Big-T]

If Welker does leave, there's a ready made replacement in Danny Amendola who will be an UFA at the end of the season, so if the Rams don't franchise him I can see the Patriots going after him hard.

 

[PatsBoy12]

If Welker does leave, there's a ready made replacement in Danny Amendola who will be an UFA at the end of the season, so if the Rams don't franchise him I can see the Patriots going after him hard.

Yeah, especially considering he's been linked to the Patriots in recent seasons. The Pats have been interested in him for some time now.

 

[UK_Pat37]

If Welker does leave, there's a ready made replacement in Danny Amendola who will be an UFA at the end of the season, so if the Rams don't franchise him I can see the Patriots going after him hard.

Id have honestly settled for him and let Welker go this year. Look at last night's performance and you will see why. It's a huge possibility.

 

[resdubwhite]

Id have honestly settled for him and let Welker go this year. Look at last night's performance and you will see why. It's a huge possibility.

Why let Welker go when you have the cap money to franchise him.

For this WR corps to be successful Welker must be a big part of it.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Why let Welker go when you have the cap money to franchise him.

For this WR corps to be successful Welker must be a big part of it.

Yup. That's what makes this whole situation frustrating. They don't seem to want to feature him as much. Maybe there is no conspiracy and they're just trying to become less predictable in always trying to go to Welker. It doesn't seem to be working, though. If they continue what they've done so far, however, the offense will struggle against teams with good defenses.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Wasn't Welker targeted nine times?

In wk 1 he got one less target than Gronk.

Much ado about nothing....

WW was targeted 11 times (according to ESPN Boston).....which works out to about 23.5% of Brady's 46 pass attempts. I'd guess (just a guess) that is down from the % TB targeted him last year.....but it isn't a low number by any means (especially when one considers this year's significant upgrade at the other WR spot - BL)

 

[UK_Pat37]

Why let Welker go when you have the cap money to franchise him.

For this WR corps to be successful Welker must be a big part of it.

If you could have gotten Amendola for a second rounder and on a reasonable contract? A lot of people have this guy as the next Wes Welker and it's not hard to see why...look at his two performances tis year on an offence which sucked out right last season without him.

The only real logic is getting something for Wes...ou won't get a first rounder or anything like it, but I'd sooner get picks for him than let him walk...especially if they plan on phasing him out slightly.

 

[Observer]

They like welker do much that they plan to keep him next year by reducing his worth... That's all I got :shrug:

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Makes no sense either since Welker has always been a great blocker. I think it was just Mike fishing for any possible reason to make sense of it. Besides, that would quickly become a tell. And it wasn't the case in week 1 when Riddley ran more/better and Edleman was on the field less.

Why does that make no sense? If BB/JM think JE is a better blocker, why would JE not see more snaps on running plays? To me it makes sense to put a better blocker on the field on running plays (assuming the Reiss story is correct).

As mentioned in an earlier post, WW got 11 (almost 25%) of TB's passes thrown his way. That is being part of the offense. If 3 of the 6 incompletions to WW were actually caught (not blaming it on WW per se, just speaking hypothetically), 8 receptions equals a very productive day.

Everyone is used to (and understandably used to) the WW of week after week, gaudy completion totals. Hey, that may still happen. But with BL aboard, the dynamic duo TEs, some passed to Riddley/Woodhead/???, JE hitting a modest level of stride....as well as through 2 games a seeming emphasis on running (I'm guessing near 50/50 in both games), the days of week after week gaudy WW totals is not likely to happen. Is that a good thing? We'll know in a few weeks to a few months....

Additionally, it is preposterous to believe BB is broken hearted/butt hurt over WW and is cutting his nose off to spite his face. Preposterous. Like BB, hate BB, agree or disagree with his moves, BB is about finding the greatest amount of advantages-mismatches-abilities (call it what you will) to bring about victory. If he is using WW like this it is because he thinks it is best (even if he is wrong). Seriously, what coach have you people been watching the last 10 years????

 

[randomk1]

Why does that make no sense? If BB/JM think JE is a better blocker, why would JE not see more snaps on running plays? To me it makes sense to put a better blocker on the field on running plays (assuming the Reiss story is correct).

Since when has JE proven himself to be a good blocker? Welker on the other hand is a pretty good one and always hustles down the field to provide blocks for guys.

No way in hell is this about Welker's blocking ability. The threat of Welker's receiving ability alone will make the running game better.

 

[mayoclinic]

I find many of the posts on this thread rather ridiculous, along with the cries of doom after one loss.

The offense was panned by many at the end of last year for not having enough diversity and relying on too few weapons. Welker was lambasted for not making a difficult catch. Josh McDaniels was brought in along with a number of new weapons, and people lauded the "Rubik's cube" diversity of play calling and use of personnel last week. This week McDaniels is panned for his play calling and not relying on the old stalwarts enough.

I wasn't thrilled with some of the play calling, to be honest. But McDaniels didn't knock Hernandez out of the game, he didn't drop the 2 point conversion attempt or any number of completable balls, he didn't miss the block on Quentin Groves on the punt attempt, he didn't call back the touchdown to Woodhead, and he didn't shank the field goal at the end of the game.

I think the Pats are making a conscious attempt to diversify the offense, and right now it's a work in progress. I don't think there's any slighting of Welker because of his contract situation, which I frankly find absurd, along with the idea that they are reducing his time in preparation to trade him.

Last year Welker was targeted 172 times, or just under 11 times per game. So far this year he's been targed 16 times, for an average of 8 times per game. That doesn't seem horrible to me.

We bemoaned the lack of a 3rd WR in 2009 and 2011. It seems like the team is making an effort to develop Julian Edelman, and I expect they'll make an effort to get Greg Salas involved as well. I'm hoping they'll continue to work on integrating the running game, including perhaps even Shane Vereen if he ever gets active. I too see an offense in flux, but I'm not sure why Reiss is wondering why. It will take some time to figure out how to blend all the ingredients, and I wouldn't be surprised to see some games where the offense is a bit out of sync. Better now than in the Super Bowl.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Since when has JE proven himself to be a good blocker? Welker on the other hand is a pretty good one and always hustles down the field to provide blocks for guys.

No way in hell is this about Welker's blocking ability. The threat of Welker's receiving ability alone will make the running game better.

When BB and the coaching staff put JE on the field more often than WW on running plays according to Reiss (as I noted in my post I was responding IF the story is true).
BB and the coaching staff watch the practice, watch the film, figure the packages and tend to have a pretty good idea who may give a better block on a running play. And I am going out on a limb that they are putting what they believe gives them the best ability to execute. Besides, JE is a bit more stout and younger. So is it really that hard to believe JE may just be a blocking upgrade to some degree over WW?

But feel free to suspect BB is putting WW on the side because he is upset at WW and apparently does not care that he is hurting the team's chances to win. I really don't know how to respond to that continuing mantra. And if it that turned out to be true (and he was keeping WW out for no reason other than offseason contractual tension), I'd be shocked beyond words.

 

[grux]

I don't know....


Is Belichick really stupid enough to minimize the team's best receiver if that receiver's truly healthy? It seems more likely that this is a matter of CIA-like silence.

There were some rumors in another thread that Welker has been struggling in practice.

 

[manxman2601]

I find many of the posts on this thread rather ridiculous, along with the cries of doom after one loss.

The offense was panned by many at the end of last year for not having enough diversity and relying on too few weapons. Welker was lambasted for not making a difficult catch. Josh McDaniels was brought in along with a number of new weapons, and people lauded the "Rubik's cube" diversity of play calling and use of personnel last week. This week McDaniels is panned for his play calling and not relying on the old stalwarts enough.

I wasn't thrilled with some of the play calling, to be honest. But McDaniels didn't knock Hernandez out of the game, he didn't drop the 2 point conversion attempt or any number of completable balls, he didn't miss the block on Quentin Groves on the punt attempt, he didn't call back the touchdown to Woodhead, and he didn't shank the field goal at the end of the game.

I think the Pats are making a conscious attempt to diversify the offense, and right now it's a work in progress. I don't think there's any slighting of Welker because of his contract situation, which I frankly find absurd, along with the idea that they are reducing his time in preparation to trade him.

Last year Welker was targeted 172 times, or just under 11 times per game. So far this year he's been targed 16 times, for an average of 8 times per game. That doesn't seem horrible to me.

We bemoaned the lack of a 3rd WR in 2009 and 2011. It seems like the team is making an effort to develop Julian Edelman, and I expect they'll make an effort to get Greg Salas involved as well. I'm hoping they'll continue to work on integrating the running game, including perhaps even Shane Vereen if he ever gets active. I too see an offense in flux, but I'm not sure why Reiss is wondering why. It will take some time to figure out how to blend all the ingredients, and I wouldn't be surprised to see some games where the offense is a bit out of sync. Better now than in the Super Bowl.

This is spot on analysis.

I'd add that it is possible, no matter how remote that we are seeing a continuation of a program of transitioning from Brady, whenever that horrible moment arrives.

 

[ensoul]

Keep in mind BB is the guy who benched Welker two years ago because of some Rex Ryan foot jokes. BB is absolutely sticking it to Welker and proving a point by making him what is the third option. Unfortunately his stubbornness hurt this teams chances yesterday.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

The O is in idenity crisis now with AH out..or at least was yesterday. They had no confidence in anything they did. Could have been due to AH. Or the bad week at practice. We won't know

 

[mgteich]

Clearly, Josh sees much more in the quality of Edelman's play, and less in Welker's play (and that of Gaffney, and Branch and of Stallworth) than those here on this board.

We need to forget the performance of earlier years. We need to try to evaluate what we see this year from Edelman and Welker, and try to see them as Josh does. Obviously, one conclusion is that Welker is vastly overpaid, but that does NOT matter now.