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Reiss: Patriots most shotgun-heavy team in league

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by maverick4, Dec 3, 2009.

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  1. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Going into the Saints game the Patriots already had 75% of all season passing attempts from shotgun. That figure went up after the game. Brady and Manning lead the league by far in shotgun attempts. Drew Brees isn't even in the top 12 QB's for shotgun attempts.

    One thing I found amusing is that Kyle freaking Orton is 3rd in the league in shotgun attempts. This retrospectively shows how much McKid loves shotgun (even while with the Pats) regardless of the QB, and how the high use of shotgun isn't automatically all Belichick's direct decision.

    Pats a heavy shotgun team - Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston


    Also completely random but somewhat relevant: Maroney only played 3 total snaps in the Saints second half.
    Maroney: Just 3 second-half snaps - Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  2. HarkDawg

    HarkDawg Banned

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    Now this article by Reiss...... :confused::confused::confused:


    He must have NILL for new MATERIAL.



    I must start referring to Reiss as "Captain Obvious" from here on out.:)
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  3. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    First of all, Reiss is the best in the business.

    Second, I'm not sure if it's fair to call Reiss Captain Obvious when there are so many Pats fans playing earmuffs to the obvious truth. Look at this forum, so many are personally offended that the issues of play-calling and predictable over-reliant shotguns are being raised.

    Reiss is merely providing facts and material that cannot be denied, no matter how much the ignorant fan base pretends it isn't true.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  4. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Is is that hard to realise that people take offense when you throw personal insults their way maverick, not the points you raise rightfully or wrongfully.
  5. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Reis is just showing that the Pats again are ahead of the curve. The shotgun is clearly becoming a base offensive formation. Both Brady and Manning are in the shotgun over 70% of the time. It shows everyone wants to copy the Pats.
  6. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler Rookie

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    Time to bring Tom back under center and bring back some play action to keep defenses off balance. All they are doing now is teeing off.
  7. HarkDawg

    HarkDawg Banned

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    Mav I have always liked Reiss a great amount....... but he is getting desperate for material and he writes about the most obvious situations that do not need an explanation because they have been EXPLAINED, SEEN and Thought Out Way before he posted this Recent Article.



    I want something New and Fresh..... Not redundant Brady info....:)



    I like Reiss..... just not when he posts obvious situations and stories.

    :)
  8. HarkDawg

    HarkDawg Banned

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    MAV did not insult me...... it is all good.. I like him.

    We are just 2 opinionated hombres looking to express ourselves.


    Everything is good man....:)
  9. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    The sad thing is he isn't trying to be funny, he is dead serious. Rob0729 loves the shotgun, he wishes we used it 100% of the time, and anyone who says otherwise clubs baby seals.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  10. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    I know you're on board. It's been just a few people here who 'get it' about the folly of overusing shotgun, there are ton of people who love it because of the sexy stats it puts up (nevermind the pathetic red zone numbers, or the bad 2nd half numbers).

    If Reiss is simply stating the obvious, then why is there such a strong negative reaction to facts?
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  11. HarkDawg

    HarkDawg Banned

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    Man I should really get some college Work Finished..... Only 3 weeks left w/ FINALS....... So much Fine Football is going on now and this weekend and other distractions ofcourse.:)
  12. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    This is blasphemy!! If we use shotgun so much it must automatically be good because Belichick is a genius and he is behind every single play call on this team!!


    sarcasm
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  13. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The sad thing is the Pats offense has been at its best with the Pats being shotgun heavy. The sad thing is two of the highest scoring teams in the league are very shotgun heavy (the Pats are 4th and the Colts are 5th). The sad thing is the #1 and #2 QB in the league for yards are in the shotgun for over 70% of the time.

    The sad thing is maverick thinks he know football better than Billl Belichick.

    The Pats and Colts are in the top 5 in scoring points. The Colts are undefeated and the Pats are still one of the teams with the best records in the league. But we all know that points scored and wins and losses are just sexy stats that don't really mean anything. I would rather be 4-7 and having a balanced unpredictable offense. LOL!
  14. HarkDawg

    HarkDawg Banned

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    BRADY is the BEST POCKET QB Out there...... the organization believes, better results will happen if BRADY throws the ball more. He is our FRANCHISE. Do we rely on him too much???....... Yeah, Probably a little much. Brady w/ the ball normally equates to Great RESULTS. TFB is always a THREAT w/ the Football if he is given enough time and protection.

    I understand where you are coming from...... Run it more or do other things and limit TFB's involvement on the playing field (Mix it Up more)......... We LACK a crafty and intuitive O-Coordinator and we cannot MAXIMIZE our Offensive TALENTS/ and capabilities: because of this BURDEN.:mad::(
  15. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You mean like wins and points scored. Dump the shotgun the rest of way and let's go 8-8. That would be a great season. NO sexy stats like wins. Just good ole fashion balanced football in exciting losses. That is what this team needs.
  16. HarkDawg

    HarkDawg Banned

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    No one is WRONG here...... both ARGUMENTS hold water...... look at my last post. We should start mixing it up a bit more b/c we are very predictable right now.



    Look @ my last POST Rob..... I am in the middle but leaning more towards Pro-Shotgun.
  17. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Wow, you honestly think we win because of shotgun? We pile up yards and become the Cleveland Browns in the red zone. This team would have just as many wins without shotgun and with Brady under center.

    Also, why did you lie before today and pretend that every win or loss is a team effort?

    Based on the above you clearly think this offense solely wins games for this team, and give ZERO blame on the offense when it clearly loses games. You can't even admit that the Patriots offense lost the Colts game when Belichick put the game in its hands and it failed to convert. You clearly would have said the offense won the game if they converted.

    Rob0709 has a little trick where any Patriots loss is never the offense's fault, because any loss had the last meaningful points given up the defense. To him the defense is always at fault, the offense is never to blame.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
  18. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not directing it to you. Maverick has either started or resurrected about 10 threads complaining about the same thing. I have problems with a lot of the play calling this year, but not the shotgun.

    The rules and defenses (a lot 3-4s and cover 2s) are making it more advantageous for teams to spread out the offenses and play from the gun. It is a trend just like the 3-4 is on defense and West Coast Offense was at one point. Both the Pats and Colts use it about the same and both teams are in the top 5 in scoring. They are #1 and #2 in passing. The Pats are 7-4 and the Colts are 11-0. It isn't like either team are struggling. The fact of the matter is the league is not the same it was 5 years ago and it is far easier to pass a lot.
  19. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Here you go again with more ridiculous claims. I have always maintained the over-use of shotgun is on O'Brien and McKid, not Belichick. You can see that after he left McKid still uses shotgun way too much, even with Kyle Orton as his QB.

    Trying to say I'm attacking Belichick is like saying the non-existent use of the tight ends this year is Belichick's fault, when it's clearly O'Briens's.


    The funniest part about Rob0709 is that he tries to give ALL credit/blame to Belichick, saying he makes all the play calls and all the decisions, and in the next breadth thinks that McKid was a good coordinator. Either McKid was a mindless robot following specific, comprehensive orders from Belichick for ALL situations, or the credit/blame goes to the coordinator too, not Belichick.
  20. HarkDawg

    HarkDawg Banned

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    MAV... Shotgun does not hurt...... but we need to mix it up more....



    LOOK at my last few posts guys...... no one is wrong in their explanations.:)
  21. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    The Pats pass for a ton of yards, are near bottom in the league in red zone offense, can't win on the road, and have pathetic 2nd half performances/stats... sounds perfect for Rob0709!!!

    .
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  22. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    DId you leave? That is the only way I could get that honor. I didn't start or reserrect a dozen threads about the offense today like you did.

    Again, you are too slow to comprehend the subtiles of an argument. The fact is the Pats are 4th in scoring. The fact is the Pats and Colts are a combined 18-4. It isn't all about the offense, but the offense plays a role in it.

    I have problems with the play calling in the red zone, but is isn't because they are in the shotgun. They have called a lot of stupid running plays near the goalline too. You can have issues with the play selection and not blame the shotgun. When Maroney fumbles on the Colts' one yard line, is that the shotgun's fault? There are times they shouldn't use the shotgun, but that has to do with many of O'Brien's growing pains in learning situational football. But I don't have problems with the shotgun itself. Brady himself says it helps him read the defenses.

    Seriously how are you? Fourteen? Fifteen?
  23. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Are you being serious?
  24. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Red zone offense. That is a sexy stat. Second half performance stat?!? Did you mention a stat? Hypocrite! You are just like a Colts fan talking about stats.
  25. HarkDawg

    HarkDawg Banned

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    Our RED ZONE Offense sucks....... that is no secret.


    We have been running the ball more frequently.... just not changing schemes in which we should some timess.


    A shotgun run leaves possibilities open. PPL will be guessing.... and if they Guess wrong we capitalize with a complete pass or a beneficial run.



    I could go on forever...... but If we plan on Running the ball on a consistent basis.... we should at least choose the appropriate formation for it. It will give a different look...... and hey why not even block for Phony Maroney if we plan on running the football?


    I am all for a "MIX UP"...... but still love the Shotty formation and its benefits.

    Shotty should not happen 65-80% of the time like we consistently do it. It is time for change and a new dimension.:)
  26. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am jabbing maverick, but I think the harping about the overreliance of the shotgun is stupid. The league is moving in that direction. The trend has been that the shotgun by most teams is getting used more and more. The Colts are 11-0 using the shotgun just as much as the Pats.

    I don't have a problem saying that the play calling has been shoddy at times (because it has), but the use of the shotgun (except in certain situations) is not the reason for it.
  27. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Red zone and 2nd half stats are meaningful. Passing yardage doesn't mean jack, it is a "sexy" stat.

    Very telling that you think this team doesn't have any struggles/issues because they lead the league in passing yardage (Rob0709 post #18).
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
  28. HarkDawg

    HarkDawg Banned

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    Do you have me on ignore???? I think my intuition on this subject is very valuable and I have received no feedback....:(
  29. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There's a degree of truth to this mayo. For the past 3 seasons, about an 8% increase per year in teams passing from the shotgun has been observed. I think it's sitting at 54 or 56%. Since the Pats went ballistic with the spread offense adapted from Urban Meyer in 2007, how many offenses have tried to emulate that? Even Pittsburgh, who have been a historically run first term now has a competent QB who is throwing for massive yards now.

    At the end of the day, I have zero problems with the shotgun and as Rob has rightfully pointed out, the issue lies at the heart of O'Brien learning on the job in play-calling. It leaves most of us scratching our heads, but if you had Brady as your quarterback, I'd hazard a thought it would be difficult not to continually fall back on him in your rookie offensive coordinator season.
  30. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Red zone issues specifically highlight the play calling issue and use of shotgun. These issues are linked. This team ramps up the shotgun predictability when in the red zone. Not only is it mind boggling since it completely removes the threat of run, but the opposing D has to cover less space for a slow developing passing game. If the team kept Brady under center more the red zone O would improve.


    By the way mayoclinic, he wasn't joking or 'jabbing'. He really means it.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2009
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