Reiss on Colts/Polian

[BradyManny]

Reiss in his football notes had a good article on the Colts...

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/articles/2007/04/01/repair_work_an_inside_job/

Nothing too new, we've pretty much established this point repeatedly on the board, but a solid read anyway. As much as I hate the Colts, they have a pretty sound philosophy and stick to it, much like we do.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Yes they do. They've managed their cap well enough to be a serious contender every season and then win the whole thing.

Another well run outfit is Denver. Suffered a bit not having a QB but still a threat.

Let's see if SD really fixed their major problem at HC. Talent wise they've been under achievers.

 

[BradyManny]

Let's see if SD really fixed their major problem at HC. Talent wise they've been under achievers.

Yeah, I'm actually much more afraid of SD than Indy over the next few years.

 

[spacecrime]

Yeah, I'm actually much more afraid of SD than Indy over the next few years.

Not me. SD has too many talented players and not enough team.

Say what you want about Shottenheimer (I certainly do) but he got them to 14-2 and had a legitimate chance to win the other two games.

And he didn't choke in the playoffs. Had that moron safety batted down teh ball, or fallen to the ground, they would have won the game and hosted Indy in the AFCCG.

But they are still a bunch of guys not playing as a team.

The Colts did that for years, and never came close. Last year, when Peyton forgot about stats, and started taking what the defense was giving him (underneath short passes) only then did they win it all. Lesser talent than pervious years, but a better team.

I will be amazed if the Chargers do not fade this year. Shottenheimer had them working together fairly well, but his style of coaching lends to that. If Norv focusies on HIS strength, X's and O's, they will have a better game plan but will not execute it nearly as well.

My 2 cents. We'll see in a few months.

 

[DaBruinz]

I haven't read the entire article but there is one sentence, already, that makes me glad that that Polian is with the Colts and that we have Pioli.

"Mainly because we've made some big mistakes in the past, Corey Simon being the most obvious one," he said.

Nothing like going out and signing a player to big buck and then trashing him because of an injury.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I haven't read the entire article but there is one sentence, already, that makes me glad that that Polian is with the Colts and that we have Pioli.

Nothing like going out and signing a player to big buck and then trashing him because of an injury.

Bill P is certainly different in that respect. He's got an emotional component in public that Belichick long ago learned to keep under wraps (and Pioli and Kraft have tended to adopt the same self restraint even when under fire). He's prone both to tossing guys under the bus in a fit of pique as well as making whiny assed excuses for them. I think he will suffer when Dungy moves on - Tony is the quiet fatherly motivator who gradually and gently convinced Peyton that his teamates might do more if he did a little less. Built a framework where players believed they were all needed and valued in spite of public perception of their relative talent and having Manning and a few elite aerial weapons consuming copious cap $$$ at the top of the roster.

It will be interesting to see if he alienates more players going forward. Irsay and Freeney are talking nice about an extension and Polian keeps throwing cold water on their very talk of extension talks. Guys have watched him turn his back on players like Simon and Reagor (to the extent of actually cutting off their salaries even though it had no cap effect) and should be mindful that there but for the grace of God go I. June went from the Pro Bowl to the toilet bowl relatively speaking from a financial standpoint (even though he led the team in tackles). If I were Booger I'd have my bags packed if the weight of my ring has in any way diminished my drive. And god help any Colt who slips on the soap in the shower this off season.

That was a great NFL notes column by Reiss with a little more Pat's relevant material than we are used to. I sure hope he keeps that assignment when the Wrong one gets out of detention.

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

San Diego also has a young QB who is already great but hasn't reached his full potential yet

 

[jman924]

San Diego also has a young QB who is already great but hasn't reached his full potential yet

So great that he completely loses it almost every game.

"HA, YOU THOUGHT IT WAS OVER!!!???" to bengals fans.
"HE'S THE SORRIEST CORNER IN THE LEAGUE!!!!!!"

to name a few that come to mind.

 

[Rob0729]

I haven't read the entire article but there is one sentence, already, that makes me glad that that Polian is with the Colts and that we have Pioli.



Nothing like going out and signing a player to big buck and then trashing him because of an injury.

It is kinda funny how the Pats get pegged as this heartless organization when Polian has made moves against two different players which are some of the heartless things I have seen in sports.

First, they put Simon on the non-football injury reserve list for degenerative injuries that were obviously caused by wear and tear from football. Because of this, Simon didn't get his full salary for the season. Now Polian is trashing Simon publically in the press and he is still under contract with the Colts.

The second is Monty Reagor. The guy is injured in a car crash on the way to the stadium and the Colts cut him in the offseason. He can obviously play because the Eagles picked him up and gave him a three year deal.

Yet, it is the Patriots who are considered heartless for cutting Willie McGinest because he carried an over $8 million cap hit or not giving into Deion Branch's over inflated salary demands. I don't get it.

It seems that most of the media are either in awe or scared of Bill Polian. Rarely do you see anything negative written about him at the national level (other than ProFootballTalk.com) eventhough his tantrums and tirades are well known (again thanks to ProFootballTalk.com). Even when he assaulted a Jets staff memeber, it really didn't get a lot of play on ESPN, Sports Illustrated, etc.

 

[PatsSteve1]

Polian on why they aren't active FA players:

"Mainly because we've made some big mistakes in the past, Corey Simon being the most obvious one," he said. "We've had a modicum of success in it, but not a lot. We just feel the odds are very much against you. It's not a criticism of anyone who does it, but just the way we do things. We're not good at it, so we stay away from things we're not good at."

* I'm not sure if it's refreshing that he admits they aren't good at it or something he shouldn't say publicly - Many FA's aren't as good with thier new teams as they were with the old one. Draft picks really can be a crapshoot as well. The Colts have drafted well over the years, but there's always the chance you have a bad year and when that's what your team depends on, it can cause problems. Whether the young guys thier counting on to take the place of those that left works out will determine any chances they have at a repeat.

 

[Peytonsbetter]

It is kinda funny how the Pats get pegged as this heartless organization when Polian has made moves against two different players which are some of the heartless things I have seen in sports.

First, they put Simon on the non-football injury reserve list for degenerative injuries that were obviously caused by wear and tear from football. Because of this, Simon didn't get his full salary for the season. Now Polian is trashing Simon publically in the press and he is still under contract with the Colts.

The second is Monty Reagor. The guy is injured in a car crash on the way to the stadium and the Colts cut him in the offseason. He can obviously play because the Eagles picked him up and gave him a three year deal.

Yet, it is the Patriots who are considered heartless for cutting Willie McGinest because he carried an over $8 million cap hit or not giving into Deion Branch's over inflated salary demands. I don't get it.

It seems that most of the media are either in awe or scared of Bill Polian. Rarely do you see anything negative written about him at the national level (other than ProFootballTalk.com) eventhough his tantrums and tirades are well known (again thanks to ProFootballTalk.com). Even when he assaulted a Jets staff memeber, it really didn't get a lot of play on ESPN, Sports Illustrated, etc.

I fail to see the big deal in what Polian said. He was just pointing out that not all FA signings work out. He didn't personally degrade the man. I'm sure Corey Simon himself would agree that he hasn't been as productive as he would have hoped. And there's nothing obvious about his condition. There's been a host of rumors but nothing official, at least not that I know of.

As for Reagor, the Colt's didn't cut him until he was healthy, judging from the fact that the Eagles signed him almost immediately. It was a cap-related move, nothing more. No different than any other cut, IMO.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I fail to see the big deal in what Polian said. He was just pointing out that not all FA signings work out. He didn't personally degrade the man. I'm sure Corey Simon himself would agree that he hasn't been as productive as he would have hoped. And there's nothing obvious about his condition. There's been a host of rumors but nothing official, at least not that I know of.

As for Reagor, the Colt's didn't cut him until he was healthy, judging from the fact that the Eagles signed him almost immediately. It was a cap-related move, nothing more. No different than any other cut, IMO.

He put them both on NFI and cut off their 2006 salary. Even though that did not alter their cap hit, just saved Irsay that money. Reagor was on his way to work, just like Ben, and his only transgretion was not wearing his seatbelt.

Ted Johnson lost his nerve prior to the 2005 season. Most of us understand and accept the obvious - like many players in this league he has suffered multiple concussions over the course of his career. But he was cleared to play repeatedly by team doctors and would be hard pressed to make the case that he couldn't play, so he retired. Under a tight cap we let him keep the $1.8M balance of his signing bonus. Just like we paid Robert Edwards his full contract and absorbed the cap hits remaining on his first round rookie deal after an injury suffered in his first off season in a scenario we bore no responsibility for effectively ended his NFL career. Just like we carried Tedy on the cap when many said he would never play again following his 2005 stroke which was determined to be due to a non football related pre existing heart defect.

When something doesn't go right in NaPolian's little kingdom it is always someone elses fault. Either the league isn't enforcing the rules strictly enough or his defense is worthless, or his Oline is pathetic, or his players are stiffing him - and somebody other than the GM is gonna bear the brunt of the consequences. What a guy.

Yet the Patriots are characterized as cheap or dismissive of the role that talent plays in their system. Yeah, right.

 

[workhorse]

Ted Johnson lost his nerve prior to the 2005 season. Most of us understand and accept the obvious - like many players in this league he has suffered multiple concussions over the course of his career. But he was cleared to play repeatedly by team doctors and would be hard pressed to make the case that he couldn't play, so he retired. Under a tight cap we let him keep the $1.8M balance of his signing bonus.

I'm pretty sure you have to pay the signing bonus. That's why players want them, it's money they get regardless.

 

[workhorse]

He put them both on NFI and cut off their 2006 salary. Even though that did not alter their cap hit, just saved Irsay that money. Reagor was on his way to work, just like Ben, and his only transgretion was not wearing his seatbelt.

Are you sure it didn't affect their cap hits? Isn't that how they made room to go trade for Booger?

 

[coltsfan]

He put them both on NFI and cut off their 2006 salary. Even though that did not alter their cap hit, just saved Irsay that money. Reagor was on his way to work, just like Ben, and his only transgretion was not wearing his seatbelt.

First of all, he didn't cut off Reagor's salary like he did Simon's. And Reagor was cut in the offseason, just as any other player could have been.

As for Simon, noone has any idea really what the situation is with him. The Philly Inquirer reported last year that he didn't want to play football anymore.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I'm pretty sure you have to pay the signing bonus. That's why players want them, it's money they get regardless.

Not if they retire, which is why Polian and Colts fans would love to see Corey Simon retire. That's really the only way they can recoup the $13M in bonus money that has already been paid to Simon - short of winning a protracted grievance battle which the NFLPA will fight tooth and nail.

When a player retires before completing his contractual obligations the team is entitled to a refund of a pro rated portion of his bonus money at their discretion.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Are you sure it didn't affect their cap hits? Isn't that how they made room to go trade for Booger?

I believe the only relief they got was salary, which in both cases was minimal (maybe a million or so combined). Corey had already pocketed a $10M option bonus and $3M signing bonus, and the pro rated share of those hits the books regardless of what list he is placed on. Money that hasn't been paid, like the salary they were denied, does not.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

First of all, he didn't cut off Reagor's salary like he did Simon's. And Reagor was cut in the offseason, just as any other player could have been.

As for Simon, noone has any idea really what the situation is with him. The Philly Inquirer reported last year that he didn't want to play football anymore.

There is no reason to place a player on NFI other than to dock his salary. Otherwise Reagor could have been placed on IR and collected his remaining $300K or so while his shattered face healed. And while you theoretically can place a player on NFI while still choosing to pay his salary, you would not want to set that precedent when you have another player on that list whom you are not paying and who has an injury he could potentially make a better case for being football related and who has filed a grievance against you as a result.

BTW everyone knew the situation regarding Philly's read on Corey Simon back in 2005. They quietly made their concerns known (as they tend to do) while he refused to sign his tag or report. They likely also determined he had little or no trade value as a result. Yet when they cut him the only guy with some cap left and a need for a run stuffer made like he'd pulled off the coup of the century in landing a quality big name FA like Simon while his peers were asleep at their respective wheels. Only now that it's blown up in his face, even though he was careful to engineer an option bonus in year 2 (albeit too early in the year...) it's somebody else's fault - in this case the player who apparently developed polyartheritis while rehabbing following surgery required as a result of a TC injury.

If the Colts lose the greivance they will likely cut him at a dead cap cost of around $8M spread over 2007-2008. Although there is always the possibility that NaPolian will threaten a Federal lawsuit as he did prior to the new CBA being ratified to try to browbeat the league into somehow changing the rules to negate his mistake. 'Cause that's the kind of NFL team player your GM is.

 

[Peytonsbetter]

There is no reason to place a player on NFI other than to dock his salary. Otherwise Reagor could have been placed on IR and collected his remaining $300K or so while his shattered face healed. And while you theoretically can place a player on NFI while still choosing to pay his salary, you would not want to set that precedent when you have another player on that list whom you are not paying and who has an injury he could potentially make a better case for being football related and who has filed a grievance against you as a result.

BTW everyone knew the situation regarding Philly's read on Corey Simon back in 2005. They quietly made their concerns known (as they tend to do) while he refused to sign his tag or report. They likely also determined he had little or no trade value as a result. Yet when they cut him the only guy with some cap left and a need for a run stuffer made like he'd pulled off the coup of the century in landing a quality big name FA like Simon while his peers were asleep at their respective wheels. Only now that it's blown up in his face, even though he was careful to engineer an option bonus in year 2 (albeit too early in the year...) it's somebody else's fault - in this case the player who apparently developed polyartheritis while rehabbing following surgery required as a result of a TC injury.

If the Colts lose the greivance they will likely cut him at a dead cap cost of around $8M spread over 2007-2008. Although there is always the possibility that NaPolian will threaten a Federal lawsuit as he did prior to the new CBA being ratified to try to browbeat the league into somehow changing the rules to negate his mistake. 'Cause that's the kind of NFL team player your GM is.

Oh good grief. Why don't you just admit that you can't stand Polian and move on? Cause this is pure hogwash. Please......

BTW, do you still post on Indystar?

 

[JoeSixPat]

As I've pointed out before, Polian is very very lucky that the Cap went through the roof, otherwise keep the players he has kept would not be possible.

His words of caution on free agent busts are well heeded no doubt - but the draft is not a panacea and drafted players often require quite a few years.

For various reasons, many teams often develop immediate needs - and Polian has left his team very very vulnerable should an immediate need develop.

I wasn't exactly expecting him to say that the team is screwed because it doesn't have enough cap space to be as active as the Pats - but it also can't be ignored that the Pats build through the draft AND through free agency, thanks to their approach.

If I have to pick between the Colts approach of relying primiarlly on the draft, and the Patriots approach of relying on the draft, free agency, and even trades thanks to their stockpile of draft picks - I'll go with the Patriots every single time.

But credit where credit is due - he built a team that won the SB and obviously remains a contender even as key players are leaving.