Reiss has interesting unknown tidbit on franchising Cassel

[JoeSixPat]

What's the unknown part of this ? This is Franchise Tag 101.

What happens if Cassel doesn't sign and looks for a long term deal ? He looks for the deal. If he gets it, he either gets an official offer and signs it then the Patriots can not match and would get two #1 picks. Or the new team can negotiate a trade for a lesser amount.

Nothing new here.

It might be Franchise Tag 101 but when you're talking $15 million it can be a bit more complicated.

Perhaps someone can clarify this question - doesn't the team trading for Cassel also have to have the $14.8 million in cap space to make the trade? We can't trade a player we don't have the rights to - therefore Cassel will never have a cap hit of $0.

I know Reiss says that the $14.8 million gets "ripped up" but isn't it on the books of the team he gets traded to, at least until they consummate the long term contract, that presumably has less of a immediate cap hit?

And if that's the case while the Patriots might not have the most difficult time holding an extra $15 million in cap space open, can we say that every team in the league interest in Cassel also has $15 million in cap space free?

Or does the NFL just give a wink and a nod and allow teams to trade a player who has no cap value?

Typically, with a much smaller cap number for players this is a non-issue ... but then again the Tag was never meant to be a trade tool either.

 

[mgteich]

Is this the 17th extensive thread on this issue?
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The only thing the franchise tag guarantees is compensation for the patriots?

Nonsense!

Cassel signs and HE is guaranteed $14M, enough to set him and his children up for theeir lifetimes. The patriots are guaranteed only what they can get in compensation from a team that is willing to give a pick for a ONE-YEAR contract with Cassel at $14M.

If Cassel is franchised without a prior arrangement with Cassel, then my strong advice is for Cassel to sign the tender as soon as he gets it, before the patriots withdraw it.

For the patriots to get anything worthwhile, they need Cassel's cooperation. BTW, can't a team give the patriots say a 2nd for the patriots to withdraw their franchise tag. Then Cassel can sign with the team, if this has been per-arranged. This avoids the patriots having to be involved in the details of Cassel's long-term contract. I'm not sure that he can sign the tag, be traded, and then immediately sign a new contract.

The open question to me is Brady's health. I don't want us putting an unhelathy QB on the field as the colts did. If Brady is healthy, or if Belichick is satisfied to go in another direction to backup Brady, then Belichick would talk to Cassel's agent immediately, so that he can get to work to develop a deal that will benefit everyone involved.

I have always known the guy has to sign to be traded. The only thing the franchise tag does is guarantee the Pats get compensation for him either via trade or not matching an offer.

 

[BelichickFan]

It might be Franchise Tag 101 but when you're talking $15 million it can be a bit more complicated.

Perhaps someone can clarify this question - doesn't the team trading for Cassel also have to have the $14.8 million in cap space to make the trade? We can't trade a player we don't have the rights to - therefore Cassel will never have a cap hit of $0.

I know Reiss says that the $14.8 million gets "ripped up" but isn't it on the books of the team he gets traded to, at least until they consummate the long term contract, that presumably has less of a immediate cap hit?

And if that's the case while the Patriots might not have the most difficult time holding an extra $15 million in cap space open, can we say that every team in the league interest in Cassel also has $15 million in cap space free?

Or does the NFL just give a wink and a nod and allow teams to trade a player who has no cap value?

Typically, with a much smaller cap number for players this is a non-issue ... but then again the Tag was never meant to be a trade tool either.

I don't know the answer to that but it's so far down in the weeds it doesn't matter. These trades work out just fine; if the Patriots want to trade him, find a team that will trade an appropriate value and agree to a new deal with Cassel it will get done. That's all the matters.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I don't know the answer to that but it's so far down in the weeds it doesn't matter. These trades work out just fine; if the Patriots want to trade him, find a team that will trade an appropriate value and agree to a new deal with Cassel it will get done. That's all the matters.

Depending on what the answer is, it's not down in the weeds.

If the team trading for Cassel needs $15 million in cap space, that may limit the number of teams that can keep that space clear or clear it out when the trade goes down.

 

[Patsrock]

Is this the 17th extensive thread on this issue?
======================================

The only thing the franchise tag guarantees is compensation for the patriots?

Nonsense!

Cassel signs and HE is guaranteed $14M, enough to set him and his children up for theeir lifetimes. The patriots are guaranteed only what they can get in compensation from a team that is willing to give a pick for a ONE-YEAR contract with Cassel at $14M.

If Cassel is franchised without a prior arrangement with Cassel, then my strong advice is for Cassel to sign the tender as soon as he gets it, before the patriots withdraw it.

For the patriots to get anything worthwhile, they need Cassel's cooperation. BTW, can't a team give the patriots say a 2nd for the patriots to withdraw their franchise tag. Then Cassel can sign with the team, if this has been per-arranged. This avoids the patriots having to be involved in the details of Cassel's long-term contract. I'm not sure that he can sign the tag, be traded, and then immediately sign a new contract.

The open question to me is Brady's health. I don't want us putting an unhelathy QB on the field as the colts did. If Brady is healthy, or if Belichick is satisfied to go in another direction to backup Brady, then Belichick would talk to Cassel's agent immediately, so that he can get to work to develop a deal that will benefit everyone involved.

The Pats don't need to make arrangements with Cassel to franchise him. Once the franchise him they are hit with a $14 million cap hit whether he signs the tender or not.

Why do they need Cassel's cooperation to get anything worthwhile? If the Pats come to a trade agreement with another team, the Pats will give that team a chance to negotiate with Cassel agents on a long term contract. The Pats do not have to be involved in the details of the long term contract. And yes Cassel can sign the franchise agreement and then be traded and sign a new deal with his new team

So yes The only thing the franchise tag guarantees is compensation for the patriots. I wasn't talking about Cassel at all.

 

[BelichickFan]

Depending on what the answer is, it's not down in the weeds.

If the team trading for Cassel needs $15 million in cap space, that may limit the number of teams that can keep that space clear or clear it out when the trade goes down.

If a team wants a player they can juggle the cap space by re-doing other contracts.

 

[BelichickFan]

The Pats don't need to make arrangements with Cassel to franchise him. Once the franchise him they are hit with a $14 million cap hit whether he signs the tender or not.

Not quite. They have to have the $14M cap space available in case he signs it but there's no cap hit if he doesn't sign.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I went to the Globe article itself to be sure, but there's nothing new here that hasn't been hashed over 1,000x on the board.

 

[Patsrock]

Not quite. They have to have the $14M cap space available in case he signs it but there's no cap hit if he doesn't sign.

But you must have that available at all times, so basically it is a $14 million cap hit until he is traded or tag removed. Or signs a LTD with the Pats(which I highly doubt)

 

[JDSal45]

It might be Franchise Tag 101 but when you're talking $15 million it can be a bit more complicated.

Perhaps someone can clarify this question - doesn't the team trading for Cassel also have to have the $14.8 million in cap space to make the trade? We can't trade a player we don't have the rights to - therefore Cassel will never have a cap hit of $0.

I know Reiss says that the $14.8 million gets "ripped up" but isn't it on the books of the team he gets traded to, at least until they consummate the long term contract, that presumably has less of a immediate cap hit?

And if that's the case while the Patriots might not have the most difficult time holding an extra $15 million in cap space open, can we say that every team in the league interest in Cassel also has $15 million in cap space free?

Or does the NFL just give a wink and a nod and allow teams to trade a player who has no cap value?

Typically, with a much smaller cap number for players this is a non-issue ... but then again the Tag was never meant to be a trade tool either.

Yes, it would be on their book for a very short term. Probably less than a day. If they agreed to a trade, they obviously already have a deal in place with Cassel.

But, nevertheless they have to have the room to make the trade to begin with. So, that is why I think a trade will happen sooner rather than later. Neither the Patriots nor Cassel's new team will want to wait long having to carry that cap room. Once they complete it and Cassel signs his new deal, its off the books.

J D Sal

 

[JDSal45]

And yes Cassel can sign the franchise agreement and then be traded and sign a new deal with his new team

I don't know about that part. On a regular contract, it can not be re-done until a full calender year goes by after it was initially signed. Not sure if the same rule applies when someone signs a franchise deal, but if so its yet another reason Cassel and his agent would be insane to sign the franchise tender from the Pats. I would assume it does not apply as that is the only way a franchise player can be traded and trades have happened regularly (see Jared Allen, Tebuckey Jones)

But regardless of that Cassel will not sign the deal. He can make more "guaranteed" on the open market. Signing it would only hinder his ability to do that and possibly end up where he wants. No agent is that stupid.

J D Sal

 

[Miguel]

Not quite. They have to have the $14M cap space available in case he signs it but there's no cap hit if he doesn't sign.

From the CBA:
"For Transition Players and Franchise Players, the tender will be included in Team Salary when made until the player is signed, the tender is withdrawn, the Team’s rights are relinquished, or the Tuesday following
the tenth game of the regular season (if the player is unsigned)."

 

[Miguel]

I don't know about that part.

Look at what happened to Jared Allen, Corey Williams, Tebucky Jones and John Abraham the day they signed the franchise tenders.

 

[BelichickFan]

But you must have that available at all times, so basically it is a $14 million cap hit until he is traded or tag removed. Or signs a LTD with the Pats(which I highly doubt)

From the CBA:
"For Transition Players and Franchise Players, the tender will be included in Team Salary when made until the player is signed, the tender is withdrawn, the Team’s rights are relinquished, or the Tuesday following
the tenth game of the regular season (if the player is unsigned)."

My technicality was wrong I guess but the point I was trying to make is that if the player doesn't sign it's a cap hit in name only as it can be withdrawn at a moment's notice.

 

[Patsrock]

I don't know about that part. On a regular contract, it can not be re-done until a full calender year goes by after it was initially signed. Not sure if the same rule applies when someone signs a franchise deal, but if so its yet another reason Cassel and his agent would be insane to sign the franchise tender from the Pats.

Which they will not do. No agent is that stupid.

J D Sal

It happened last year with Jared Allen. He had to sign the franchise tag and then traded and then a LTD was signed with Minnesota.

Chiefs now own six of top 82 picks in draft - NFL - ESPN

 

[JoeSixPat]

If a team wants a player they can juggle the cap space by re-doing other contracts.

Of course they can - but from what I've gleaned from some other discussions is that there's quite a few teams in cap hell as it is. Is clearing an additional $15 million in space going to be quick, easy and pain free for them? And might that be a factor for some teams?

If anyone has the 2009 cap space for other NFL teams as it now stands that would be an interesting bit of information.

 

[Rob0729]

Ask Reiss: Moving parts - The Boston Globe

Quotes for the mailbag:

If Cassel does not sign the tender, he is technically not under contract to the team...

Because a player can not be traded unless he is under contract, if the Patriots were seeking to trade Cassel, they would presumably allow his agents to negotiate on a long-term contract with other teams. Cassel would sign the one-year tender with the Patriots as a technicality, that deal would be ripped up when he’s traded, and he’d join a new team with a long-term extension.

Interesting. If I was Cassel, and the Pats franchised me, I would sign that tender in a millisecond. 14 million bucks, guaranteed. But what if his agent thinks he can get more on the free market and tells Cassel not to sign. What happens then?

I still think the only way the Pats franchise him is if they are concerned aboutr Brady, but I LOVE all the permutations and possibilities. It is almost as much fun as having the Pats in the playoffs.

.....

Okay, it isn't nearly as much fun, but it is still better polls about do we keep Gaffney or go after Caldwell in March

Ok, full disclosure, I didn't read the entire thread so sorry if I am repeating information already stated. Cassel signing the tender is not in Cassel's best interest. Cassel can get more guaranteed money if he signs a long term deal with someone else. If he signs the tender, he cannot work a long term deal with anyone until the next calendar year. That means he is risking either serious injury or poor performance diminishing any value he has for a long term deal.

No team would trade for Cassel with only a one year contract at $14.8 million or so with him being a free agent going into the 2010 season potentially being an uncapped year. So if Brady comes back, he sits on the bench and hopes his value is as high as it is right now next year.

It is in Cassel's best interest to work on a long term deal with a team willing to give enough to trade for him. Cassel should get at least $20-30 million guaranteed and $8-10 million a year. Even if he washes out somewhere else, he could get $25-35 million out of a contract before he is cut. He signs the tender and has a career ending injury, all he gets is $14.8 million or so.

 

[Rob0729]

I don't know about that part. On a regular contract, it can not be re-done until a full calender year goes by after it was initially signed. Not sure if the same rule applies when someone signs a franchise deal, but if so its yet another reason Cassel and his agent would be insane to sign the franchise tender from the Pats. I would assume it does not apply as that is the only way a franchise player can be traded and trades have happened regularly (see Jared Allen, Tebuckey Jones)

But regardless of that Cassel will not sign the deal. He can make more "guaranteed" on the open market. Signing it would only hinder his ability to do that and possibly end up where he wants. No agent is that stupid.

J D Sal

I am pretty sure it is the case with franchise tenders. I do know that franchise tenders are guaranteed no matter the rule.

In these sign and trade deals, I am pretty sure the player signs one day contract type of deal just to get him on the roster and trade him. Not 100% sure about this. Miguel or someone else who knows the cap would have to confirm or deny this.

 

[Rob0729]

Look at what happened to Jared Allen, Corey Williams, Tebucky Jones and John Abraham the day they signed the franchise tenders.

I thought they didn't sign their tenders. I thought they signed a short term contract just to get the trade done.

 

[BelichickFan]

If anyone has the 2009 cap space for other NFL teams as it now stands that would be an interesting bit of information.

I couldn't find 2009 but here's 2008 heading into FA :

Increase has teams well under salary cap - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Mega $$$ of cap space sitting free. We were 21st at over $10M. Teams are managing their caps better now and there was another big jump in the cap heading into 2009.