Reiss expects Pats to be fined-deflategate? No farking way

[Ivan]

But the guy who rules on that is Roget Jetdell

So the league is going to say a rule is a rule and sanction the Patriots based on the finding of a league official who broke the rule governing the maintenance of game balls during the game?

 

[Ivan]

Absolutely correct sir. Ray Anderson was replaced by Troy Vincent as the figurehead but Kensil remained in charge.

Link showing us how Kensil is the one in charge?

 

[AQPE]

I wish there was a higher rating to give to Joe's post, "Winner" will need to suffice.

"Flasox27" next time you want to assert how important Kensil is in the league office, you might want to keep in mind what Joe posted; take a look at the salary chart, where is Kensil? You may not have as much figured out about all this as you seem to believe. I think you actually have some valid points, and further I think your evident fears about the regular injustices committed by the clown car known as the league office are very well founded. However your apparent distaste for Kraft is, from my perspective, clouding your judgment and is annoying. I assume, given how many posts you've made on this topic and on similar ones, you are hoping to convince some of us to see things your way. Ragging on Kraft isn't a particularly compelling way to accomplish that, sir, at least not on a forum populated by many folks with our own long term histories as Pats fans. We've seen with our own eyes what he has done with the franchise, where it was with the Sullivans and Kiam (Orthwein doesn't really count given his brief, basically accidental tenure). It won't surprise me at all to see the Pats get screwed again and I am not going to be floored if Kraft swallows it and moves on, but if that's how it goes I won't for one second believe it's because Kraft hasn't thought through all their options and made what he believes to be the most prudent choice for the long term good of the franchise. He's a billionaire that has done successful deals with the Iranians and Soviets; ponder thst for a moment considering who and what he is if you get my drift. Even at 73 he isn't in over his head with Commissioner Blockhead, but his agenda ain't ours and we all need to accept that fact. If they do take it up the tuchis on this one I'm gonna be mad too, but I'll also keep in mind what I've heard about him over the years, which is that he is patient but always pays back his debts.

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/mike-kensil/15/a7/42b

Kensil is VP of game operations for the NFL. HE is the one who burned the Patriots in Spygate and let the Jets walk away from the in game tripping incident with nothing but a flunky firing and a 100K fine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal_Alosi


During a game against the Miami Dolphins on December 12, 2010, Alosi stuck out his knee and tripped Nolan Carroll as the latter was running down the sideline during a punt return. Two days later, the Jets suspended him indefinitely after it was discovered that he had instructed inactive Jets players to line up along the sideline so as to potentially impede opposing players. General manager Mike Tannenbaum said that Alosi had initially not been truthful about how the wall had been formed. Alosi was fined $25,000 by the Jets and suspended for the remainder of the 2010 season.[6] The NFL subsequently fined the Jets $100,000 for Alosi's actions.[7]

Alosi resigned from the Jets on January 31, 2011 and hasn't signed a contract in the NFL since the tripping incident.[8]


Vice President of Game Operations
National Football League
February 2006 – Present (9 years 2 months)
Vice Pres. of Football Operations
New York Jets
May 1977 – February 2006 (28 years 10 months)

THAT is Kensil's work history in the NFL. Are ANY of you going to sit there and tell me this person does NOT have an extremely vested interest in the fortunes of the NY Jets? TWENTY EIGHT FRIGGIN' YEARS? and you want me to believe this azzole DOESN'T have an agenda? Why is he there, right in the perfect position to wreak as much damage on the Patriots while minimizing decisions against his former employer for 28 years? Do any of you seriously believe that a head coach does NOT know that a formation using HIS PLAYERS to form a wall and trip opposing players in play is being practiced multiple times right under his own eyes? Really? If I serve you a plate of dog shyt and tell you it's beef stew will you PAY ME 10 bucks a plate? I could use some easy "sucker" money.

 

[rochrist]

https://www.linkedin.com/pub/mike-kensil/15/a7/42b

Kensil is VP of game operations for the NFL. HE is the one who burned the Patriots in Spygate and let the Jets walk away from the in game tripping incident with nothing but a flunky firing and a 100K fine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal_Alosi


During a game against the Miami Dolphins on December 12, 2010, Alosi stuck out his knee and tripped Nolan Carroll as the latter was running down the sideline during a punt return. Two days later, the Jets suspended him indefinitely after it was discovered that he had instructed inactive Jets players to line up along the sideline so as to potentially impede opposing players. General manager Mike Tannenbaum said that Alosi had initially not been truthful about how the wall had been formed. Alosi was fined $25,000 by the Jets and suspended for the remainder of the 2010 season.[6] The NFL subsequently fined the Jets $100,000 for Alosi's actions.[7]

Alosi resigned from the Jets on January 31, 2011 and hasn't signed a contract in the NFL since the tripping incident.[8]


Vice President of Game Operations
National Football League
February 2006 – Present (9 years 2 months)
Vice Pres. of Football Operations
New York Jets
May 1977 – February 2006 (28 years 10 months)

THAT is Kensil's work history in the NFL. Are ANY of you going to sit there and tell me this person does NOT have an extremely vested interest in the fortunes of the NY Jets? TWENTY EIGHT FRIGGIN' YEARS? and you want me to believe this azzole DOESN'T have an agenda? Why is he there, right in the perfect position to wreak as much damage on the Patriots while minimizing decisions against his former employer for 28 years? Do any of you seriously believe that a head coach does NOT know that a formation using HIS PLAYERS to form a wall and trip opposing players in play is being practiced multiple times right under his own eyes? Really? If I serve you a plate of dog shyt and tell you it's beef stew will you PAY ME 10 bucks a plate? I could use some easy "sucker" money.

Holy crap, 90 million dollars for seven executives??

 

[flasox27]

I wish there was a higher rating to give to Joe's post, "Winner" will need to suffice.

"Flasox27" next time you want to assert how important Kensil is in the league office, you might want to keep in mind what Joe posted; take a look at the salary chart, where is Kensil? You may not have as much figured out about all this as you seem to believe. I think you actually have some valid points, and further I think your evident fears about the regular injustices committed by the clown car known as the league office are very well founded. However your apparent distaste for Kraft is, from my perspective, clouding your judgment and is annoying. I assume, given how many posts you've made on this topic and on similar ones, you are hoping to convince some of us to see things your way. Ragging on Kraft isn't a particularly compelling way to accomplish that, sir, at least not on a forum populated by many folks with our own long term histories as Pats fans. We've seen with our own eyes what he has done with the franchise, where it was with the Sullivans and Kiam (Orthwein doesn't really count given his brief, basically accidental tenure). It won't surprise me at all to see the Pats get screwed again and I am not going to be floored if Kraft swallows it and moves on, but if that's how it goes I won't for one second believe it's because Kraft hasn't thought through all their options and made what he believes to be the most prudent choice for the long term good of the franchise. He's a billionaire that has done successful deals with the Iranians and Soviets; ponder thst for a moment considering who and what he is if you get my drift. Even at 73 he isn't in over his head with Commissioner Blockhead, but his agenda ain't ours and we all need to accept that fact. If they do take it up the tuchis on this one I'm gonna be mad too, but I'll also keep in mind what I've heard about him over the years, which is that he is patient but always pays back his debts.

I am absolute in agreement with your assessment of Kraft as a businessman and that he has made a tremendous financial success of his late wife's fortune. I am sorry you are annoyed by my lack of appreciation of his part in the team's on field success. Keep in mind that Parcells and BB were initially hired by Ortwein and Kraft in part was responsible for them leaving and hiring as GM the disasterously incompetent Bobby Grier which managed to destroy the team in three years. Kraft's only real achievement regarding the team on the field was hiring BB and basically staying out of his way. BB made the team on the field what it is and Kraft as the owner has as his due reaped the financial benefits. My bone to pick with Kraft is that for whatever reason had abandoned the support of the team from the beginning of the camera placement incident to just before this superbowl in his slavish devotion to Goodell. Nobody can deny that the reputation of the Pats has been thoroughly destroyed by the actions of the Commissioner with Kraft not saying a word in defense. It may be good business but it is not the way to treat his employees or the team's fans. I honestly believe he doesn't understand as he said in his statement about no way to treat a partner that these owner are his competitors and not friendly competitors at that. In that regard, I feel that his son may have a better concept of the reality of what is important to the fans of the team and not be solely concerned with the bottom line.

 

[AQPE]

I am absolute in agreement with your assessment of Kraft as a businessman and that he has made a tremendous financial success of his late wife's fortune. I am sorry you are annoyed by my lack of appreciation of his part in the team's on field success. Keep in mind that Parcells and BB were initially hired by Ortwein and Kraft in part was responsible for them leaving and hiring as GM the disasterously incompetent Bobby Grier which managed to destroy the team in three years. Kraft's only real achievement regarding the team on the field was hiring BB and basically staying out of his way. BB made the team on the field what it is and Kraft as the owner has as his due reaped the financial benefits. My bone to pick with Kraft is that for whatever reason had abandoned the support of the team from the beginning of the camera placement incident to just before this superbowl in his slavish devotion to Goodell. Nobody can deny that the reputation of the Pats has been thoroughly destroyed by the actions of the Commissioner with Kraft not saying a word in defense. It may be good business but it is not the way to treat his employees or the team's fans. I honestly believe he doesn't understand as he said in his statement about no way to treat a partner that these owner are his competitors and not friendly competitors at that. In that regard, I feel that his son may have a better concept of the reality of what is important to the fans of the team and not be solely concerned with the bottom line.

There you go again, assuming things you don't know to be true. Oh well, to each his own, no hard feelings.

 

[fourhour]

Holy crap, 90 million dollars for seven executives??

Yup, keep buying them official NFL shirts! ennis

 

[Koma]

Holy crap, 90 million dollars for seven executives??

Meanwhile, some NFL underling is searching eBay for cheap cameras to use on the goal line.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

We all know Roger does what he wants, why he wants. Once this is over without us losing a draft pick I will be relieved and, honestly, surprised.

I doubt we did anything wrong and if we did there appears to be no evidence. But that may not stop Roger. This kind of thing is like Viagra to him.

 

[VectorPrime]

Actually the longer this goes on the less and less pressure that Goodell should feel to levy a punishment.

Not that he should feel any pressure at all but lets just assume he is.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Either the report is honest or it isn't, lying by omission or deliberately constructing it so it doesn't reflect the truth is still a lie. "Virtually no lies" is still lies. Either Wells is complicit in helping the league lie or he isn't, you can't have it both ways.

I thought you were only talking about making false statements. I would never in a million years have thought someone would be so naive as to think it's not commonplace/expected for lawyers to lie by omission and so didn't consider you actually could have meant that.

Lying by omission is one of the key job skills of lawyers (and I do not mean that in any sort of snarky or pejorative way). Most people would never hire a lawyer that would not lie by omission. You're going to hire someone to defend you in a lawsuit who is going to disclose to the opposition harmful stuff about you that he finds out? No freakin' way! It is a key function of a lawyer to not volunteer information and to spin whatever information must be disclosed in favor of (or least in the least negative way possible for) their client. And never forget -- the NFL is the client here, not the public.

So I don't think a Wells whitewash would hurt his reputation at all. At least not with the people he cares about: other high-end lawyers and potential clients. The other high-end lawyers are doing the same thing and the types of clients who hire guys like Wells want people who can skillfully whitewash. None of that crowd would ever fault him for not burning a client.

Does he have unlimited ability to whitewash? No, certainly not. He can't leave out things that would make him look like an idiot to have left out. But he can still give those things short shrift in his report and can word them to sound the least bad as possible.

Personally, I think there's a "warts and all" report that probably no one other than Wells and Goodell (so that Goodell can know exactly what happened) will ever see and then there will be the whitewashed/spun one that will be released to the public.

 

[Ivan]

Keep in mind, he is the number two man in the league office and Goodell's most important henchman. He could have been authorized by Goodell to examine and measure the game balls if he thought something was amiss. Goodell has been known to interpret rules as he sees fit.

So we now know he is not the number two man, and apparently not even close to it, and according to Goodell he didn't know anything about the matter until after the game, and it must have been quite a while after as he was actually at Kraft's house after the game. Goodell is going to save face by claiming he was not informed of what was going on and Kensil will be the one who is pointed to. However Mike Kensil is not going to be fired because he has been causing trouble for the Patriots for years, he is going to be fired because he went on a rogue sting operation that blew up in the face of the league office and commissioner, and with all of the trouble Goodell has faced this past year the last thing he needed was this.

I will say this however. If the league does as many here are saying and finds both no wrongdoing and yet sanctions the Patriots just for the fun of it, and Robert Kraft does just bend over and take I will be the first to admit just what a naive motherf.cker I really am. Short of actual proof of wrongdoing by the Patriots I simply do not see how the league could get away with sanctioning them.

 

[Ivan]

I thought you were only talking about making false statements. I would never in a million years have thought someone would be so naive as to think lawyers it's not commonplace/expected for lawyers to lie by omission and so didn't consider you actually could have meant that.

Lying by omission is one of the key job skills of lawyers (and I do not mean that in any sort of snarky or pejorative way). Most people would never hire a lawyer that would not lie by omission. You're going to hire someone to defend you in a lawsuit who is going to disclose to the opposition harmful stuff about you that he finds out? No freakin' way! It is a key function of a lawyer to not volunteer information and to spin whatever information must be disclosed in favor of (or least in the least negative way possible for) their client. And never forget -- the NFL is the client here, not the public.

So I don't think a Wells whitewash would hurt his reputation at all. At least not with the people he cares about: other high-end lawyers and potential clients. The other high-end lawyers are doing the same thing and the types of clients who hire guys like Wells want people who can skillfully whitewash. None of that crowd would ever fault him for not burning a client.

Does he have unlimited ability to whitewash? No, certainly not. He can't leave out things that would make him look like an idiot to have left out. But he can still give those things short shrift in his report and can word them to sound the least bad as possible.

Personally, I think there's a "warts and all" report that probably no one other than Wells and Goodell (so that Goodell will know exactly what happened) will ever see and then there will be the whitewashed/spun one that will be released to the public.

So an NFL owner, who actually was one of those paying for the investigation and report ( Goodell certainly didn't) won't be allowed to see the results and findings of the Wells Report?

 

[Ivan]

I thought you were only talking about making false statements. I would never in a million years have thought someone would be so naive as to think lawyers it's not commonplace/expected for lawyers to lie by omission and so didn't consider you actually could have meant that.

Lying by omission is one of the key job skills of lawyers (and I do not mean that in any sort of snarky or pejorative way). Most people would never hire a lawyer that would not lie by omission. You're going to hire someone to defend you in a lawsuit who is going to disclose to the opposition harmful stuff about you that he finds out? No freakin' way! It is a key function of a lawyer to not volunteer information and to spin whatever information must be disclosed in favor of (or least in the least negative way possible for) their client. And never forget -- the NFL is the client here, not the public.

So I don't think a Wells whitewash would hurt his reputation at all. At least not with the people he cares about: other high-end lawyers and potential clients. The other high-end lawyers are doing the same thing and the types of clients who hire guys like Wells want people who can skillfully whitewash. None of that crowd would ever fault him for not burning a client.

Does he have unlimited ability to whitewash? No, certainly not. He can't leave out things that would make him look like an idiot to have left out. But he can still give those things short shrift in his report and can word them to sound the least bad as possible.

Personally, I think there's a "warts and all" report that probably no one other than Wells and Goodell (so that Goodell will know exactly what happened) will ever see and then there will be the whitewashed/spun one that will be released to the public.

The owners are paying for the investigation and report so any owner who wants one will have full access to the complete and unredacted findings of the investigation. Therefore if the league office tries to publish a whitewashed version of the findings all the Patriots have to do is publish the real findings. Trying to use a whitewashed version would give the Patriots all the ammunition in the world to rebut it and further challenge the ethics and integrity of the league office. Goodell would essentially be putting the noose around his own neck.

 

[flasox27]

So we now know he is not the number two man, and apparently not even close to it, and according to Goodell he didn't know anything about the matter until after the game, and it must have been quite a while after as he was actually at Kraft's house after the game. Goodell is going to save face by claiming he was not informed of what was going on and Kensil will be the one who is pointed to. However Mike Kensil is not going to be fired because he has been causing trouble for the Patriots for years, he is going to be fired because he went on a rogue sting operation that blew up in the face of the league office and commissioner, and with all of the trouble Goodell has faced this past year the last thing he needed was this.

I will say this however. If the league does as many here are saying and finds both no wrongdoing and yet sanctions the Patriots just for the fun of it, and Robert Kraft does just bend over and take I will be the first to admit just what a naive motherf.cker I really am. Short of actual proof of wrongdoing by the Patriots I simply do not see how the league could get away with sanctioning them.

Let me just point out one factor which you are overlooking; The nfl has a business hierarchy and an on field hierarchy. The big money people are all in the business hierarchy which has no bearing on the on field activities. The hierarchy for on field activities which is relevant is Goodell, the token minority person and Kensil. So where it really matters Kensil is either the number two or number three person. Given the circumstances of Kensil's employment and the revolving door of his supposed superiors I am confident of my statement.

 

[Ivan]

Let me just point out one factor which you are overlooking; The nfl has a business hierarchy and an on field hierarchy. The big money people are all in the business hierarchy which has no bearing on the on field activities. The hierarchy for on field activities which is relevant is Goodell, the token minority person and Kensil. So where it really matters Kensil is either the number two or number three person. Given the circumstances of Kensil's employment and the revolving door of his supposed superiors I am confident of my statement.

I'm have no doubt you are confident of your statement I'm just waiting for it to be backed up in any way. Mike Kensil is Vice President of Game Operations, that means others are above him. Other than that I have no idea what the structure of the league office is so I have no idea where he ranks? Whether he is fifth or fiftieth out certainly appears like he should lose his job.

 

[flasox27]

There you go again, assuming things you don't know to be true. Oh well, to each his own, no hard feelings.

Believe what you want, it's a free country and I am sure there are people here that believe that all Kraft's assertions of support for Goodell are part of a secret behind the scenes strategy that result in a just result for the Pats. Let me just say that anything Kraft has done either openly or behind the scenes has had zero positive effect on the reputation of the Pats. This is not assumption this is fact. If you don't believe me, just read Reiss's column or live like I do outside New England. Frankly, I don't really care how profitable the NFL or Pats are and how much Kraft is responsible for that. What I respect is an owner that supports without prodding and hesitation the employees that are responsible for the on field success rather than the POS commissioner or his financial partners. Maybe then he would realize who the schmuck really is.

 

[flasox27]

I'm have no doubt you are confident of your statement I'm just waiting for it to be backed up in any way. Mike Kensil is Vice President of Game Operations, that means others are above him. Other than that I have no idea what the structure of the league office is so I have no idea where he ranks? Whether he is fifth or fiftieth out certainly appears like he should lose his job.

Believe me I would like nothing better than the whole Jets alumni club to be fired. We will see what if any heads roll.

 

[VectorPrime]

I'd settle for Kensil being fined 25k

 

[Ivan]

I'd settle for Kensil being fined 25k

Not me.