Reiss: An ominous sign?

[cstjohn17]

New England Patriots were buyers instead of sellers as they shaped their roster, which could be an ominous sign, writes Mike Reiss - ESPN Boston

Just call it "Emperors new clothes", I am glad someone is calling a spade a spade.

I don't think I ever laughed so hard as one of the Pats games when Dean Peas was asked "What does Woods do excpetionally well?" his response "Rush the Passer".. that is the most classic line ever. The guy is a 5th string special teamer who has no obvious talent at all and the Patriots are telling us how good he is at rushing the passer, please.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I often agree with Reiss but in this case I'm puzzled by his point or criticism.

The best 53 made the roster. Period.

The others were cut loose. Who would he have cut from the current roster to make room for a 6th round pick like Larsen (who I liked but am not shocked to see him cut)?

BB doesn't care where a guy was drafted or fear that people will question his football IQ if he even cuts a 2nd rounder. He keeps the best players, period.

 

[WhoaDirty]

Just call it "Emperors new clothes", I am glad someone is calling a spade a spade.

I don't think I ever laughed so hard as one of the Pats games when Dean Peas was asked "What does Woods do excpetionally well?" his response "Rush the Passer".. that is the most classic line ever. The guy is a 5th string special teamer who has no obvious talent at all and the Patriots are telling us how good he is at rushing the passer, please.

He wouldn't be much of a coach if he said: "Nothing. He's a slightly above average STer."

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: Reiss:An ominous sign ?

You believed in the 2009 team, too. Trumpet that one.

He was not wrong. That team won double digit games and the were Division Champs. They B-E-A-T the team that knocked them out of the playoffs, in the regular season.

Everyone make a big deal of the "humiliating" score of the playoff game, but every year the Pats Team has tossed out a Stinkeroo. Everybody just occasionally, has "One-of-those-Days.

It just happened in the Playoffs this time. If you recall it was 24-0 before late arrivers even got into their seats, on a single long run, and turnovers. It tough to spot a good team that much and come back.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Reiss:An ominous sign ?

He was not wrong.

Yes, he was.

 

[AzPatsFan]

New England Patriots were buyers instead of sellers as they shaped their roster, which could be an ominous sign, writes Mike Reiss - ESPN Boston

Seems to me that with Zac Robinson and Ted Larsen claimed at least, other teams are selecting our players too. I expect that Damione Lewis, Derrick Burgess and perhaps MacKenzie, and Woods will hook up with someone.

I'm not sure some one of the vets won't be invited back after the first game so their contracts isn't guaranteed.

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

The real issue Reiss cites is that the Pats are trading away conditional draft picks (three so far -- so one must assume a 5th, a 6th or a 7th next year are potentially gone) for other teams castoffs. If BB waited to claim them off waivers, it costs you no draft picks. That seems to be the essence of his argument. In a reversal of prior years when the Pats had the depth to be sellers, now Pats are buyers of other people's trash.

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

Seems to me that with Zac Robinson and Ted Larsen claimed at least, other teams are selecting our players too. I expect that Damione Lewis, Derrick Burgess and perhaps MacKenzie, and Woods will hook up with someone.

I'm not sure some one of the vets won't be invited back after the first game so their contracts isn't guaranteed.

Zac Robinson wasn't claimed. He willingly jumped. He signed on to be on the Seahawks PRACTICE SQUAD.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I think what's left out in many of these player discussions is what visions Bill has for the team this year based on what talent he has and what he thinks he can obtain.

I think Bill is trying to keep the salary low for future signings and the guys cut simply did not improve the function of their roles or added new roles to their skill set. new guys have the capability to add roles and improve what roles they can perform ... the cut players have simply not added to what roles they had. I don't think it's because they suck ... these new guys may suck the same ... but at least they portray the ability to have upside.

I like turnover ... it's exciting seeing the team vision Bill has from year to year.

 

[SuperPatsFan]

keep the salary low

Now you're getting it.

 

[captain stone]

New England Patriots were buyers instead of sellers as they shaped their roster, which could be an ominous sign, writes Mike Reiss - ESPN Boston

I completely agree with everything in this article.

Reiss isn't an opinion-monger like others in the regional press, so this should be an ominous warning to all of us: it's going to be a long, losing season.

 

[DocE]

I don't know how anyone can disagree with Reiss's point. This roster is really, really weak on the back end.

Ohrnberger is a huge miss: Trading two 5th rounders in to the 4th round to target an offensive guard and whiffing is really bad. The guard position is not highly valued in the NFL, so if you are going to trade up for one, he's got to be pretty highly rated on your board.

Going back to '07 on mid to late round Olineman:

'07 Misses
5th round Clint Oldenburg
6th round Cory Hilliard
7th round Mike Elgin

'09 Misses
4th round Rich Ohrnberger
5th round George Bussey

'10 Misses
6th round Ted Larsen
7th round Thomas Welch

That's 7 guys who have all failed to play in a regular season game for the Patriots. At worst, the Patriots should have one high quality backup out of this group.

It's another post, but missing out on these 3rd round picks has been cruical. McKenzie, O'Connell, Crable never even playing in a regular season game?

 

[bigfandan]

Re: Reiss:An ominous sign ?

One mankins is not going to fix the problem. They were a bad OL in both 08 and 09 and frankly this line is probably worse than previous 2 years.

Actually, desperation would be to cave to mankins

 

[captain stone]

Re: Reiss:An ominous sign ?

Using this logic, you can excuse everything ever done in football.



Practice squad. Let's not play games here.



Yes, bringing up the O-line players that got cut because they weren't good enough is unfair of me when I'm talking about offensive line woes. :bricks:



Sucks. Was going to get cut. Patriots are in so much trouble on the line that this guy actually has become a part of the team to date.




No problem with conversion projects on the practice squad. However, when you're claiming him for the 53, that's a different issue.




You have no idea what happened, so the "next move" comment has no basis. The Patriots did something to piss off Mankins when they didn't have to. Right or wrong is irrelevant at this point, since we're talking about the present situation.



I'd like him to be back tomorrow. The reality is that he's recovering from surgery.



It demonstrates the disaster that is the current offensive line. It's 4.5 players deep, and that's it.



What does that have to do with the problems of the offensive line?



Now this is good comedy.

Game, Set, and Match: Deus.

 

[sbpatfan]

Good lord, are people really complaining about "whiffing" on a fourth round draft pick? Miami just parted with their 2nd and 3rd from last year.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Re: Reiss:An ominous sign ?

But to answer your second question, I want them to win ever single season and was devastated when they lost to the Giants in the super bowl. That took weeks to get over but it still bothers me to this day.

I still haven't gotten over it.

 

[BradyToAmendola]

Please, stop with the doom and gloom nonsense. The team will be fine.

 

[Ron Sellers]

Now you're getting it.

I would love to hear a further explanation from the SuperPassiveAgressiveTrollFailingToMasqueradeAsAPatsFan.

 

[bigfandan]

It depends on what the definition of fine is.

Optimism does not hide real concerns of this team. Especially on defense. It shapes to be among worst in the league in passing defense. And this is becoming a passing league in case you did not know.

It could be a very long season for you, my optimist friend.

Please, stop with the doom and gloom nonsense. The team will be fine.

 

[Ron Sellers]

I don't know how anyone can disagree with Reiss's point. This roster is really, really weak on the back end.

Ohrnberger is a huge miss: Trading two 5th rounders in to the 4th round to target an offensive guard and whiffing is really bad. The guard position is not highly valued in the NFL, so if you are going to trade up for one, he's got to be pretty highly rated on your board.

Going back to '07 on mid to late round Olineman:

'07 Misses
5th round Clint Oldenburg
6th round Cory Hilliard
7th round Mike Elgin

'09 Misses
4th round Rich Ohrnberger
5th round George Bussey

'10 Misses
6th round Ted Larsen
7th round Thomas Welch

That's 7 guys who have all failed to play in a regular season game for the Patriots. At worst, the Patriots should have one high quality backup out of this group.

If you only look for misses that is all you are going to find. Julian Edelman, Jake Ingram, Zoltan Mesko, Myron Pryor, Jonathan Wilhite, and Matt Slater are all on the roster from those drafts, as well as five undrafted free agents originally signed by the Pats; all came in the same rounds you mentioned.

Without knowing the percentage of players that were drafted in these rounds that make a playoff team's roster and contribute, we have no way of knowing if the Pats are doing an average job with these late round picks, below average, or even above average. We're comparing success and stats in a vacuum, with no norm to compare it to.