Reiss: Alexander, Krug, Britt signed, Sam not.

[spacecrime]

You make a good point... I think much of the frustration comes from his being a 2nd round pick versus Brown being, what, a 13th rounder?

That's the difference between fans and coaches. Had Bethel been an undrafted FA, we would all be saying keep him. He is a steal as a UFDA. But because he was a high 2nd rouknd pick, we say he isn't performing like a high second round pick should and is therefore a bust.

Coaches, well they don't care where a guy was drafted once he is on the team, or even how he did two years ago or last year. What matters to the coach is how is is performing now and how they can expect him to perform in the near future. The only criteria is: is this guy better or not as good as the next guy in line, and sometimes can we do better with the money that we are paying this guy.

 

[patchick]

Wrapping back to the original post, I'm happy to see this positive sign about Wesley Britt. I'm pretty happy with last year's OL haul of Mankins, Kaczur and Britt, all of whom were consistently rated among the top 10 at their positions. And remember that for Kaczur and Mankins, half the draftniks rated them as tackles and half as guards. Britt meanwhile is a pure right tackle. I wouldn't be shocked to see all three of them starting in 2006.

 

[BelichickFan]

And remember that for Kaczur and Mankins, half the draftniks rated them as tackles and half as guards. Britt meanwhile is a pure right tackle. I wouldn't be shocked to see all three of them starting in 2006.

I hope Britt isn't starting. Mankins and Kaczur as the two OG are fine with me but I want to draft a really good RT in the first two rounds to finish off the OL (until Koppen is a FA in 12 months) and Gorin, Britt and Hochstein can be good backups with Ashworth presumably leaving as a FA.

 

[mgteich]

I thought that Britt was a top RT, but I have fine with another on Day One.

 

[BelichickFan]

I thought that Britt was a top RT, but I have fine with another on Day One.

He was drafted late and released for a reason and it wasn't just the injuries. Going back and reading Ourlads and Pro Football Weekly's draft previews, he was a solid, worthwhile prospect but not someone who we want starting - certainly not now anyway.

 

[DaBruinz]

Trust me, I'm no Bethel Johnson fan. I'm just saying that the Pats are currently over the cap, have limited ability to free up cap room, don't have many receivers (or a kicker) under contract, and have some key players that are going to be looking for big contracts.

Since the cap hasn't been set, how can you say that the Pats are over it? Also, I am going to assume you missed the part in Felger's article that said that Free Agency could be pushed back a week because talks on the CBA extension are heating up. Felger also mentioned that the Cap could go over 100 million for this season because of all the extra revenue streams that will be counted to determine the salary cap.

Also, you are wrong in saying that they have limited ability to free up cap room. There have been numerous threads about how the Pats could free up as much as 10 million without even breaking a sweat.

Also, there aren't many "KEY" players who are going to be looking for a big contract before the CBA is settled. That's fact. Not to mention that of the Patriots 2006 free Agents, there are several who will lose their free agency status without a CBA extension. Namely Branch, Koppen, Johnson, TBC, Graham, Samuel and Klecko. See, there is a lovely little pill in the current CBA that says if there isn't an extension, then only players with 6 or more years of experience in the NFL are eligible for free agency in 2007.

The only one we would really have to worry about is Seymour. And with no cap, we could throw however much money at him that we wanted to keep him.

Realistically, the 5th wide receiver on the Pats roster is going to be a cheap, vet minimum guy -- a Bethel Johnson off somebody else's roster. Double Bethel's new money to $260k so you can sign an undrafted free agent stiff. I don't think you'll get an upgrade over Bethel's minimal contribution. Heck, for the $134k in new money we'll be payin' Bethel, you'll be lucky to find a guy who can even catch a kickoff, let alone return it for 20 yards.

The Pats aren't in cap jail, but they aren't in a position to be throwin' money at 5th wide receivers.

I think you need get some more facts before making statements about what the Pats can and can't do regarding free agency.

 

[DaBruinz]

You make a good point... I think much of the frustration comes from his being a 2nd round pick versus Brown being, what, a 13th rounder?

Actually, Brown wasn't a 13th round pick. He was an 8th round pick back in a time when the league was trasitioning from 12 rounds to 9 to our current 7.

Yes, most of us wish Bethel had performed better. And he seemed like he would get over that hump after the 2004 season. But then, he had the off-season foot/ankle (?) surgery and he never seemed like himself.

Maybe the Pats will give him one last chance. Who knows. But he's definitely been frustrating.

I wouldn't mind Todd Watkins to replace him or Troy.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Personally, I think its too soon to give up on Bethel Johnson. .

There is too much talent there to give up, in my opinion. And its not just 'potential' its the plays Ive seen on the field. Granted there have not been enough but the plays he has made show the talent exists. Could the injuries be the only thing that has held him back?

I really hope that you're right, AJ.

This is the sort of post that I would have agreed with completely before last season. Last season, though, was a MAJOR disappointment whichever way you look at it. There were plenty of opportunities for Bethel to take a role if he was good enough. He obviously wasn't.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Are all the PK Sam boosters around here finally willing to admit they were wrong?

Its always amazing to me how many smart people fall victim to "backup" syndrome... the thought that guys like Michael Bishop and PK Sam never get a fair shake

Football isn't like baseball - the best players play regardless of salary

 

[DaBruinz]

Are all the PK Sam boosters around here finally willing to admit they were wrong?

Its always amazing to me how many smart people fall victim to "backup" syndrome... the thought that guys like Michael Bishop and PK Sam never get a fair shake

Football isn't like baseball - the best players play regardless of salary

So, JSP, you think that every player is fully developed by 21 and can make an impact coming out of school? You don't think it could take 2-3 years for them to mature and make a difference?

So, let me guess. You wanted to get rid of Graham after his rookie year. Watson too, since he got injured. Or how about Brady since he couldn't even make the 3rd string QB position.

Yes, they are absurd. Just like its absurd to think that just because a 23 year old player didn't make the team out of camp his 2nd year, but was brought back to the practice squad but hasn't been offered a further contract is a bust.

Good thing that NFL coaches don't think like you do. Otherwise the Pats would never have had the likes of Troy Brown on their team.

 

[PatsFan37]

As for the WR's:

Dwight -- we all hope he re-ups

Davis -- at the end of the season it looked like he and Brady we're getting in synch

B.Johnson -- another injury year. I had hopes last year. He won an offseason workout award. He took a roster spot over Terrell and Davis. The coaches won't play him, but they don't want to cut him.

Sam -- the topic of the thread. Don't know. Just don't know.

But when it comes to the 2006 WR surprise, count me on the BAMwagon. The coaches put Bam on the 53 for a reason and not just because he plays corner. Like they said about Troy, he's a football player.

 

[Mike the Brit]

As for the WR's:

Dwight -- we all hope he re-ups Me too!

Davis -- at the end of the season it looked like he and Brady we're getting in synch

B.Johnson -- another injury year. I had hopes last year. He won an offseason workout award. He took a roster spot over Terrell and Davis. The coaches won't play him, but they don't want to cut him.

But was it injury? Did they need him so badly for KRs that they kept him on the roster and played him there even when injured, but not as a wide receiver? I keep on hoping, but ...

Sam -- the topic of the thread. Don't know. Just don't know.

But when it comes to the 2006 WR surprise, count me on the BAMwagon. The coaches put Bam on the 53 for a reason and not just because he plays corner. Like they said about Troy, he's a football player.

Nice post -- thanks.

 

[JoeSixPat]

So, JSP, you think that every player is fully developed by 21 and can make an impact coming out of school? You don't think it could take 2-3 years for them to mature and make a difference?

So, let me guess. You wanted to get rid of Graham after his rookie year. Watson too, since he got injured. Or how about Brady since he couldn't even make the 3rd string QB position.

Yes, they are absurd. Just like its absurd to think that just because a 23 year old player didn't make the team out of camp his 2nd year, but was brought back to the practice squad but hasn't been offered a further contract is a bust.

Good thing that NFL coaches don't think like you do. Otherwise the Pats would never have had the likes of Troy Brown on their team.

Maybe you weren't here during the last pre-season but people were declaring Sam - and indeed the entire receiving corps - to be among the BEST in the NFL.

I calmly pointed out that Sam, Davis, Bethel et al really had done nothing to prove or deserve that type of high expectation and that our WRs - aside from Branch and Givens - were a HUGE question mark going into the seasons.

I think the coaches - then and now - would be inclined to agree.

 

[hwc]

I think you need get some more facts before making statements about what the Pats can and can't do regarding free agency.

Miguel has the Pats currently over the projected cap of $92 million by about $3 million.

So, the Pats need to jettison $3 million to get to the cap, then an additional X million for signing rookies and fill the roster, which has significant holes as of today at kicker, wide receiver, O-line, and the secondary.

Felger's analysis in the newspaper of an "easy" $9 million in cap savings was optimistic in my opinion. He is forgetting that, when you cut a player, you have to replace him with an equal or better player. So, when you cut Starks and Poole you have to consider the cost of bringing in replacements. If you want experienced veteran guys, you aren't going to get them for vet minimum.

Assuming that we restructure McGinnest and cut Poole and Starks, we have some serious holes in the roster. Ignoring practice squad and NFL Europe guys under contract:

We don't have a kicker under contract or factored in the cap.

We only have two wide receivers on the roster: Branch and Bethel Johnson.

We only have two offensive guards on the roster: Hochstein and Mankins

We only have two cornerbacks on the roster: Samuel and Hobbs.

And, not counting Rodney Harrison, we only have two safeties on the roster: Wilson and Sanders.

Now, I am NOT saying the Pats are in cap jail. There's some room to open up some cap space and the Pats are really good at it. However, it's tight, there are a lot of holes on the roster, and several vets who are important to sign. For example Samuel, Seymour, Branch, and Koppen are all heading into the final year of their contracts and keeping them is always cheaper if you do it a year early.

I am saying that the Pats are not in a position to go throwing money at the 5th wide receiver slot. The fact that Bethel Johnson costs less new cap money to keep on the roster than signing an undrafted rookie free agent stiff means that he could well be a good value. At least he is a reliable kick returner and contributes on special teams.

It's one thing to say "this bum" has to go or "bring in upgrades". But, the cap is the cap.

Now, what could change my thinking a bit would be if McGinnest retires or is cut and the Pats opt to not replace him with a veteran free agent. That would be a $7 million cap savings that the Pats could redeploy to other parts of the roster.