Receivers: September 2006 to 2007

[mgteich]

None of our five roster receivers were here during September of 2006, not one. I know that this isn't news. However, to me, this is a pretty amazing stat.

The problem last year was supposedly that receivers need lots of time to get in synch with Brady and to learn the offense. If that's true, then we are in deep trouble (BTW, Kyle Brady is also new). I choose to believe that the lack of talent was a more primary cause for the ineffectiveness of the 2006 receiving corps.

 

[BelichickFan]

The problem last year was supposedly that receivers need lots of time to get in synch with Brady and to learn the offense. If that's true, then we are in deep trouble (BTW, Kyle Brady is also new). I choose to believe that the lack of talent was a more primary cause for the ineffectiveness of the 2006 receiving corps.

There are two factors which should make you worry less.

One is what you said, there's more room for error when you have more talent.

But two, the WR are much more ready to go now than last year. This time last year we had a slowing Troy and Caldwell had been here all offseason. Other than that we were yet to sign Gabriel and Gaffney. What about now ? Gaffney has been here almost 12 months, Welker, Washington and Stallworth since March, Moss since April. They may not have played in games - or in many cases a lot of training camp practices, but the WR have been with the team far longer.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Perhaps, but looking at the four WR of the 2003-4 campaigns there was a certain symmetry between quickness, speed, power, and guile. I suspect the addition of Welker coupled with either the addition of Stallworth or development of Chad Jackson would have brought some of the balance back. Moss changed the equation; Washington apparently heating up seems to have been the final input that forced Reche out. Best of luck to him.

 

[cstjohn17]

None of our five roster receivers were here during September of 2006, not one. I know that this isn't news. However, to me, this is a pretty amazing stat.

The problem last year was supposedly that receivers need lots of time to get in synch with Brady and to learn the offense. If that's true, then we are in deep trouble (BTW, Kyle Brady is also new). I choose to believe that the lack of talent was a more primary cause for the ineffectiveness of the 2006 receiving corps.

All I can say is thank goodness we don't have the same WRs as last year.

It will take some time and the talent will help, hopefully the play calling will focus on higher percentage plays (RB out of backfield, Welker underneath, Watson in the flat). I expect an occasional shot down the field to keep the Safeties back but the deep throws will take a little longer.

It is kind of moot because against the Jets I expect a heavy running attack.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

All I can say is thank goodness we don't have the same WRs as last year.

It will take some time and the talent will help, hopefully the play calling will focus on higher percentage plays (RB out of backfield, Welker underneath, Watson in the flat). I expect an occasional shot down the field to keep the Safeties back but the deep throws will take a little longer.

It is kind of moot because against the Jets I expect a heavy running attack.

Runnning against the Jets will need to set up the deep ball off play action (as long as Tommy has learned not to ignore Kerry Rhodes showing blitz). They will want to suck Rhodes into the box then knock them off balance with the passing game. Let's just hope they don't get up on them quickly and start coasting again.

 

[PatsFan37]

Washington apparently heating up seems to have been the final input that forced Reche out. Best of luck to him.


Runnning against the Jets will need to set up the deep ball off play action (as long as Tommy has learned not to ignore Kerry Rhodes showing blitz). They will want to suck Rhodes into the box then knock them off balance with the passing game.

To your first point, I think that's something that the media has missed. Moss getting back may have been one reason for Caldwell being cut, but Washington has improved lately and the media hasn't had access to recent practices. When Caldwell was signed, he was touted as the next Givens, with Givens' size and more speed and overall talent (the feeling at the time).

Washington fits the same bill -- a big strong possession receiver who can block in the running game.

The key to using the WRs on Sunday will be defusing the blitz. As much as Maroney is important to that, so is the screen pass. That's where Moss or Stallworth can be especially effective, taking a safety and a corner deep while the rush is sucked in. It's usually a second-down type of play, but might be nice on third and long as well -- riskier but a good way to make the DE's think twice on every third and long thereafter.

 

[cstjohn17]

The key to using the WRs on Sunday will be defusing the blitz. As much as Maroney is important to that, so is the screen pass. That's where Moss or Stallworth can be especially effective, taking a safety and a corner deep while the rush is sucked in. It's usually a second-down type of play, but might be nice on third and long as well -- riskier but a good way to make the DE's think twice on every third and long thereafter.

This would be great, similar to how Indy puts pressure on the defense with their outside presence.

If the Jets keep their Safeties back, we run our dump it off. If they start to creep up or play 1:1 we take a shot deep our hit Watson in the middle.

Indy does it to perfection, hopefully we can achieve a similar level of execution.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

None of our five roster receivers were here during September of 2006, not one. I know that this isn't news. However, to me, this is a pretty amazing stat.

The problem last year was supposedly that receivers need lots of time to get in synch with Brady and to learn the offense. If that's true, then we are in deep trouble (BTW, Kyle Brady is also new). I choose to believe that the lack of talent was a more primary cause for the ineffectiveness of the 2006 receiving corps.

Speculation on my part, but I think there is a correlation between the two. The more talented receiver you are, the more natural your instincts are and the learning curve is reduced. The more of a JAG you are (and Caldwell was a JAG), the longer the curve is, the more time it takes for QB and WR to get into sync. So it's pretty simple.

Last year ---> Less talent = Longer time needed

This year ---> More talent = Less time needed

Does that mean that valuable playing time isn't needed to get in sync? Of course not. Its just not gonna take 6-7 games for Brady to get into rhythm with Moss, Stallworth, Welker, et all........

Someone with Moss's talent will require an equal learning curve for Brady. He can do stuff that Brady has NEVER seen in a receiver. But because both are so talented, they should gel fairly quickly, provided they both stay healthy.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

To your first point, I think that's something that the media has missed. Moss getting back may have been one reason for Caldwell being cut, but Washington has improved lately and the media hasn't had access to recent practices. When Caldwell was signed, he was touted as the next Givens, with Givens' size and more speed and overall talent (the feeling at the time).

Washington fits the same bill -- a big strong possession receiver who can block in the running game.

The key to using the WRs on Sunday will be defusing the blitz. As much as Maroney is important to that, so is the screen pass. That's where Moss or Stallworth can be especially effective, taking a safety and a corner deep while the rush is sucked in. It's usually a second-down type of play, but might be nice on third and long as well -- riskier but a good way to make the DE's think twice on every third and long thereafter.

Screens are good and we know the Pats believe in them - but recall the Pats put on a screen exhibition against Tennessee's blitz so the Jest will be prepared. I don't believe there is anything that will stop the Jest from blitzing, the trick will be to get them off balance and to deny them the use of Kerry Rhodes in the box - I don't think screens are the answer. It's time to send Stallworth, Watson, and that other kid (if he's healthy) deep and force the Jest to keep Safety help over top. Then use the screen to disrupt the linebacker's blitz.

 

[PatsFan37]

Screens are good and we know the Pats believe in them - but recall the Pats put on a screen exhibition against Tennessee's blitz so the Jest will be prepared. I don't believe there is anything that will stop the Jest from blitzing, the trick will be to get them off balance and to deny them the use of Kerry Rhodes in the box - I don't think screens are the answer. It's time to send Stallworth, Watson, and that other kid (if he's healthy) deep and force the Jest to keep Safety help over top. Then use the screen to disrupt the linebacker's blitz.

I was wondering about the point of using so many screens against the Titans. It's not as though Faulk needed the practice. At the time I thought it was a desperation move to keep Brady alive.

In last year's playoff game against the Jets, Brady used quick outs to Gaffney to spread the defense and defuse the blitz. So the Penguin will be ready for that. In that game, on at least occasion, they caught on and almost picked off one of those passes. And, like you say, he'll be ready for the screen.

What I loved about the playoff Jets game was that incredible coaching duel and I'm expecting something like that on Sunday. Both these guys will have something up their sweatshirts besides a whistle.

 

[mgteich]

I believe that the additional practice of screens was done in order to make sure that the new blocking schemes were seemlessly integrated into this series of plays.

 

[grapedog]

I get to wear my #80 Jersey for one more season at least...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I was wondering about the point of using so many screens against the Titans. It's not as though Faulk needed the practice. At the time I thought it was a desperation move to keep Brady alive.

In last year's playoff game against the Jets, Brady used quick outs to Gaffney to spread the defense and defuse the blitz. So the Penguin will be ready for that. In that game, on at least occasion, they caught on and almost picked off one of those passes. And, like you say, he'll be ready for the screen.

What I loved about the playoff Jets game was that incredible coaching duel and I'm expecting something like that on Sunday. Both these guys will have something up their sweatshirts besides a whistle.

Coaches duel, linebackers at 10 paces, on the command gentlemen; "ready!" "set!" "red dog!"

 

[PatsFan37]

Coaches duel, linebackers at 10 paces, on the command gentlemen; "ready!" "set!" "red dog!"

For that kind of duel, I'd rather wait for Rodney to return.

 

[psychoPat]

....
The problem last year was supposedly that receivers need lots of time to get in synch with Brady and to learn the offense. If that's true, then we are in deep trouble (BTW, Kyle Brady is also new). I choose to believe that the lack of talent was a more primary cause for the ineffectiveness of the 2006 receiving corps.

Today ... i choose to believe the same.

10 or 11 months ago i was quite as certain that it was the other reason.

 

[RayClay]

None of our five roster receivers were here during September of 2006, not one. I know that this isn't news. However, to me, this is a pretty amazing stat.

The problem last year was supposedly that receivers need lots of time to get in synch with Brady and to learn the offense. If that's true, then we are in deep trouble (BTW, Kyle Brady is also new). I choose to believe that the lack of talent was a more primary cause for the ineffectiveness of the 2006 receiving corps.

Our top receiver walked on his contract leaving us to scramble. The guy who went through training camp caught over 60 balls.

The better receiver was picked up mid season and was one of the top receivers in the playoffs, without the benefit of training camp.

Our receivers were so bad that we went to the AFC Championship game and put up an 18 point lead.

Had our linebackers and safeties not collapsed we would have been in a very winnable Super Bowl.

I guess it's how you look at it.

 

[The_Dragon]

Was gonna start a Gameplan thread but the discussion in here is covering it anyway. And very interesting it is too!

Can't wait to see the offensive - defensive matchups on Sunday. Luckily the game is being shown here as part of a triple header with the Chargers v Bears and the Cowboys v Giants.

Will the Pats use the 3 WR(Stallworth/Gaffney, Welker, Moss/Gaffney) set with Watson in and Maroney in the backfield? Might leave them open to one of the Jets exotic blitzes. On the other hand if TB could get the ball away one the receivers could take it to the house.

Will they use the 2-3 TE set and start running the ball down the Jets throat? Setting up the play action over the top for Stallworth/Jabar/Moss and for Welker/Watson over the middle. Can't wait.

BB will have to come up with something to nullify Thomas, Coles, Washington, Cotchery etc. No easy task in itself. I assume the Pats will operate as usual - try to take away the run as a priority? The Jets might target the backfield with Harrison out and Samuels light on practice time. They might also try to run it to Jarvis' side with Seymour out. Test out how run defense holds up that side with Rosey and Green(possibly AD also).

All fascinating stuff. Would love to hear the theories guys!!! ;-)

 

[mgteich]

Our receivers were so good last year that the entire group was replaced, other than one that was picked up in mid-season and looked good in the playoffs. And he is projected to be the #4 receiver.

Yes, it does depend on how you look at the situation.

Our top receiver walked on his contract leaving us to scramble. The guy who went through training camp caught over 60 balls.

The better receiver was picked up mid season and was one of the top receivers in the playoffs, without the benefit of training camp.

Our receivers were so bad that we went to the AFC Championship game and put up an 18 point lead.

Had our linebackers and safeties not collapsed we would have been in a very winnable Super Bowl.

I guess it's how you look at it.

 

[RayClay]

Our receivers were so good last year that the entire group was replaced, other than one that was picked up in mid-season and looked good in the playoffs. And he is projected to be the #4 receiver.

Yes, it does depend on how you look at the situation.

Our top receiver walked on his contract leaving us to scramble.

Projected by who? I think he starts with Stallworth or Moss who are similar receivers.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Will the Pats use the 3 WR(Stallworth/Gaffney, Welker, Moss/Gaffney) set with Watson in and Maroney in the backfield? Might leave them open to one of the Jets exotic blitzes. On the other hand if TB could get the ball away one the receivers could take it to the house.

Simple answer: Yes.

Will they use the 2-3 TE set and start running the ball down the Jets throat?

Again, yes.

On offense I see the Pats opening in a 3 WR/TE/RB set. I wouldn't be surprised to see Marcellus Rivers get the start - his presence is less likely to telegraph pass or run.

Where I'm unsure is which direction they might choose to go to start disrupting the Jets: (a) run to start the linebackers biting and suck Rhodes down into the box? (b) take it up top to Moss or Stallworth on the first play to pull Rhodes away from the line of scrimmage?

The first play passing attack does offer a way to start testing the rookie CB. If it was anybody but the Jets I'd say the 3 WR look forces them into a nickel early, but Vilma is a very good coverage LB.

The run first option gives us a test to see how their D-line shook out. The only returning starter who did well last year is Ellis in the Ty Warren slot. Their NT should start playing better inside this season, but it may be several games yet before the light finally goes on - I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt despite his lack luster career to date. The RDE will be a new man with Kimo on the beach.

My best guess: First play pass. Try to loosen up the Jest early and try to get the deep threat WRs involved in the game early. Use the 3 WR formation to test the O-line and Maroney and see if they can grind it out without the help of the extra blocker(s) if the passing game is used to help keep the D off-balance.

Once they get the Jest guessing a little, switch up with a 2/3 TE look and run the same deep routes with Watson and Stallworth/Moss. Fireguy Ed could be impotently foaming at the mouth by halftime.