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Receivers [Edit: Post Branch Cutdown]


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It's really all a matter of semantics.

In one sense, he's a tight end all the time, wherever he's lined up on the offense; he's a tight end playing special teams when he's receiving kicks, and he's a tight end when he's on the sideline drinking gatorade. He's a tight end because that's the position the Patriots have designated him as, and had he not extended his contract and ended up given the franchise tag, it would be for the tight end value.

In another sense, he's only a tight end when he's the last player on his side flush with the line of scrimmage (i.e. an End) while not being the furthest player from center (i.e. not a Split End.)

In this case, he'd still be a TE when motioned into the slot provided that he remains an flush with the line of scrimmage, and that he isn't the farthest outside receiving option on his side of the play.

Often, though, you'll see the Pats have Hernandez or Gronk lined up in the slot a few steps off the line of scrimmage, in which case, he's not an "End" of any sort. Depending on where he's lined up, you could call him an H-Back, slot receiver, full back, or even flanker. Less often, you might find Hernandez lined up flush with the line of scrimmage, and the furthest split receiver on his side, at which point he'd be lined up as a split end.

It isn't semantics, it is matchups.
Hernandez is utilized so that almost all of the time he covered by a LB or S. (ie as a TE)
If he is used as a guy covered by a corner (ie a WR) he will not be nearly as effective.
 
It isn't semantics, it is matchups.
Hernandez is utilized so that almost all of the time he covered by a LB or S. (ie as a TE)
If he is used as a guy covered by a corner (ie a WR) he will not be nearly as effective.

I don't really know why people like arguing against this so much. Until he's labeled as a WR and plays as one (ie: split wide or in the slot on every down), he won't be one.

He's an incredibly gifted tight end with positional flexibility to fill in multiple roles, but he is first, and foremost, a tight end.
 
This is just like that time last year when BB cut everyone on the roster even remotely capable of playing safety.
 
I really thought Branch was a lock to stay after 2 cuts of Gaffney & Stallworth. Intersting to see if BB has something up his cut sleeve about addin another WR.
 
Such woe over a position that will see very few snaps this year. How much time is the #3 WR going to see anyway?

With 1 RB, your 4 receivers for the majority of plays will be Gronk, Hernandez, Lloyd, Welker.

Hernandez, Welker, Lloyd outside and slot along with Gronk and Fells/Shiancoe at TE. A traditional 2 TE set can be run now with those guys, and Hernandez will be in the slot, backfield, or wherever else they can think of putting him!

5 wide? Usually a RB out there with those 4. If not, Edelman or Ebert will suffice as a slot presence. More likely? Gaffney is back when he is healthy (week 2, I'm sure). Do we really need more WR depth than that?????

When/if Gaffney is back, he is at most a 10 snaps per game guy.
 
Such woe over a position that will see very few snaps this year. How much time is the #3 WR going to see anyway?

With 1 RB, your 4 receivers for the majority of plays will be Gronk, Hernandez, Lloyd, Welker.

Hernandez, Welker, Lloyd outside and slot along with Gronk and Fells/Shiancoe at TE. A traditional 2 TE set can be run now with those guys, and Hernandez will be in the slot, backfield, or wherever else they can think of putting him!

5 wide? Usually a RB out there with those 4. If not, Edelman or Ebert will suffice as a slot presence. More likely? Gaffney is back when he is healthy (week 2, I'm sure). Do we really need more WR depth than that?????

When/if Gaffney is back, he is at most a 10 snaps per game guy.

I hope that the WR3 gets a lot of plays this year, and that WR4 gets a decent number as well, as should everyone else. It would be stupid of the team to get so far away from 3 and 4 wide in the game plan.
 
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but I believe Demps can play WR. He's so freaking fast, who can stay with him?
 
I hope that the WR3 gets a lot of plays this year, and that WR4 gets a decent number as well, as should everyone else. It would be stupid of the team to get so far away from 3 and 4 wide in the game plan.

They will not be getting away from the 3 and 4 wide.

Hernandez will essentially be the WR3 in those formations much of the time.

I suspect there will be a few plays drawn up utilizing Demps out there.

Ebert/Edelman can be used as quick slot guys opposite Welker if needed.

Bottom line: Lloyd, Welker, Hernandez, Gronk will be the 4 primary receivers the majority of the time. If you want to see lots of plays for a WR3, which of these 4 would you take those snaps from?
 
Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but I believe Demps can play WR. He's so freaking fast, who can stay with him?

I was thinking this too. I saw some of his highlights at Florida and his getaway speed seems almost impossible. His burst to get away from defenders is amazing.
 
They will not be getting away from the 3 and 4 wide.

Hernandez will essentially be the WR3 in those formations much of the time.

I suspect there will be a few plays drawn up utilizing Demps out there.

Ebert/Edelman can be used as quick slot guys opposite Welker if needed.

Bottom line: Lloyd, Welker, Hernandez, Gronk will be the 4 primary receivers the majority of the time. If you want to see lots of plays for a WR3, which of these 4 would you take those snaps from?

All of them. I'm not looking to give out 100% participation pins. I'm looking for a Patriots team that can rack up mismatches with every group it puts out there, but I'm also looking for flexibility of a nature that will keep opponents guessing when they game plan.
 
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Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but I believe Demps can play WR. He's so freaking fast, who can stay with him?
Demp's versatility could end up being a wonderful matchup advantage for the Pats. I would imagine we'll see formations with Demps in at RB and, if matchups warrant it, doubling as a wideout. Defenses won't know if he's in to run the ball or in as a wide receiver.
 
BB going to be like 'you thought the Branch cut was crazy, well now I'm gonna shop Welker plus a first round pick over to Arizona for Larry Fitzgerald.'

I know nothing like that will probably happen, but watching Kolb play a few days ago makes me wonder what use an elite receiver is without a QB to throw it to him. It also makes me appreciate that patriots fans can have threads wringing our hands about our #3 receiver.
 
All of them. I'm not looking to give out 100% participation pins. I'm looking for a Patriots team that can rack up mismatches with every group it puts out there, but I'm also looking for flexibility of a nature that will keep opponents guessing when they game plan.

Well, I think we agree. It seemed like you were calling for a WR3 to have a major role in this offense when clearly that is not going to happen. I do agree that multiple guys will be thrown out there for mismatch purposes. My point was Branch as the presumed WR3 was not by himself set to have a big role (well, obviously, since he was cut).

Branch, if here, was going to be a minor player in the game plan. Edelman, Ebert, Gaffney (when he returns), Demps, etc. will be thrown out there for mismatches or to spell one of the big 4 if Belichick shares your disdain for participation pins. Given the number of plays Gronk, Hernandez, and Welker have historically played, I think Belichick likes participation pins.

Since you are looking for "flexibility of a nature that will keep opponents guessing," I think that pretty much describes Hernandez. Especially when he is not tied to the traditional TE spots with Gronk and Fells/Shiancoe there.

Ebert/Edelman, Demps, the RB's, the other TE, and a returning Gaffney is more than enough depth to mix and match as needed.
 
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Demp's versatility could end up being a wonderful matchup advantage for the Pats. I would imagine we'll see formations with Demps in at RB and, if matchups warrant it, doubling as a wideout. Defenses won't know if he's in to run the ball or in as a wide receiver.

Exactly. Some possible 5wr combinations

1. 3wr + 2te

2. 2wr + 2te + demps/vereen

3. 1wr + 3te (shiancoe) + demps/vereen

4. 1 wr + 2te + 2rb (demps + vereen)

5. 3te + 2rb

etc.

The D won't know what hit them.
 
Are Holly and Ebert both still around, as far as we know?

Both Holley & Ebert are now gone.
Unfortunately & unfathomably, the less-than-useless Kerry Taylor is still here.
He makes "WR"(snicker) Matt Slater look like Troy Brown.
 
wow we are thin at WR. BB has to have a plan with this.
 
Exactly. Some possible 5wr combinations

1. 3wr + 2te

2. 2wr + 2te + demps/vereen

3. 1wr + 3te (shiancoe) + demps/vereen

4. 1 wr + 2te + 2rb (demps + vereen)

5. 3te + 2rb

etc.

The D won't know what hit them.

Don't forget Woodhead.
 
We could go from a heavy package: 1 WR, 2 TE, 2 RB to a 4 WR/1TE without changing personnel. Butthen again, why wouldn't you have Welker and Lloyd outt here at the same time.

So I'd expect base 2WR, 2TE, 1RB (though having 5 seems excessive, but injuries happen and some are primarily special teams).
 
We could go from a heavy package: 1 WR, 2 TE, 2 RB to a 4 WR/1TE without changing personnel. Butthen again, why wouldn't you have Welker and Lloyd outt here at the same time.

So I'd expect base 2WR, 2TE, 1RB (though having 5 seems excessive, but injuries happen and some are primarily special teams).

One scenario I can think of, let's say we have 5 mins left in the 4th quarter. We come out heavy to run, 2rb and 3te. Then we go no huddle to stop the D from substituting. Of course in normal situations, we'd like 2wrs. But I think there are situations that can call for no designated WR.
 
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