PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Rebuilding: Where do we start


Status
Not open for further replies.
Just think

After the Jax game, the Pats "were back" and a favorite for the Super bowl. Lose Welker and now it's the depth of "rebuilding".

Wide Receiver- Uhhh why does everyone assume that Edelmann and Tate are not the answer? TB actually had a better year than Goober a la' 2008 and that's after an ACL.

Defense- Why does everyone think young and inezperienced players on defense will not be "young and inexperienced"? The clutch defenses 2001-2004 went through the growing pains in the halcyon days of 1996-2000. Does anyone remember?

With a 2002-2007 Brady, this team would have been 15-1 or 14-2. In the end, next year will be a determinant if Brady id "back".
 
Just think

After the Jax game, the Pats "were back" and a favorite for the Super bowl. Lose Welker and now it's the depth of "rebuilding".

Wide Receiver- Uhhh why does everyone assume that Edelmann and Tate are not the answer? TB actually had a better year than Goober a la' 2008 and that's after an ACL.

Defense- Why does everyone think young and inezperienced players on defense will not be "young and inexperienced"? The clutch defenses 2001-2004 went through the growing pains in the halcyon days of 1996-2000. Does anyone remember?

With a 2002-2007 Brady, this team would have been 15-1 or 14-2. In the end, next year will be a determinant if Brady id "back".

WR- Tate hasnt proven anything so it is hard to really count on him contributing next year. Welker is not a guarantee to be ready for the start of 2010, so we definitely need to go out and get another WR. Personally, I would go out and try and get 2 and have Tate compete with the other one on training camp for a roster spot.

Defense- The defense will definitely get better with time, but the defense is still lacking a pass rush. They dont really have any players to develop into great pass rushers. I am confident that the secondary will be fine with the players we have, although we need to resign Bodden. We definitely need to add an OLB that can get after the QB and add a DL. The key to our defense is to resign Wilfork. He is the best player on our defense and needs to get resigned.

There is no way that this team could have ever been 15-1, 14-2 with a Brady from 2002-2007. A big factor this season that has been discussed many times on here has been the lack of an OC. It had an effect on the whole offense, the play calling, the wasting of time outs to prevent delay of game penalties, delay of game penalties, Brady's play and lack of in game adjustments. With Charlie or Josh I think this team would have been better than 10-6, but definitely not 15-1 or 14-2
 
Just think

After the Jax game, the Pats "were back" and a favorite for the Super bowl. Lose Welker and now it's the depth of "rebuilding".

Wide Receiver- Uhhh why does everyone assume that Edelmann and Tate are not the answer? TB actually had a better year than Goober a la' 2008 and that's after an ACL.

Edelman will likely be the slot WR, but Tate cant stay healthy.

Brady needs WR's to spread the ball around. Aiken and Stanback?
 
Edelman will likely be the slot WR, but Tate cant stay healthy.

Brady needs WR's to spread the ball around. Aiken and Stanback?

You don't know that Tate can't stay healthy. He was a rookie this year who suffered an ACL tear in October of 2008 during his senior year of College. That's a 12 to 18 month recovery time for most players. There were NO confirmed reports as to what injury put him on the IR. In fact, for all we know, the Pats shut him down because they felt that he'd be better for them by being 100% healthy for the start of 2010 than by only being 70-80% for the rest of 2009 with a bigger chance of getting hurt and missing the entirety of 2010. They could have, very well, learned from the Chad Jackson and Bethel Johnson Injuries..

Edelman will probably play the slot to start the season, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him lining up outside. He's got more slightly more speed than Welker and slightly less agility. Though he's got brains..

Will the Pats bring in a WR? Probably. But I don't forsee any huge names being added.
 
Defense- The defense will definitely get better with time, but the defense is still lacking a pass rush. They dont really have any players to develop into great pass rushers. I am confident that the secondary will be fine with the players we have, although we need to resign Bodden. We definitely need to add an OLB that can get after the QB and add a DL. The key to our defense is to resign Wilfork. He is the best player on our defense and needs to get resigned.

We need a tougher middle defense.

1.) Draft Cody. Regardless of whatever happens with Wilfork.

2.) Trade up for McClain and sign Dansby to play ILB for us. Mayo makes no big plays and even though Guyton probably outplayed Mayo in 2009, the bottom line is Guyton needs to be in the Pinewood Derby; which happens every game day; on the bench!

3.) Move Merriweather for FS and get a head hunter for the SS spot. Our defense needs to reclaim the middle of the field and that is best accomplished by making the opposing offense scared to run through there. McGowan probvided a little of that early, but apparently McGowan has all the communication skills of a statue; which led to blown coverages.
 
We need a tougher middle defense.

1.) Draft Cody. Regardless of whatever happens with Wilfork.

Ochmed - over the years, you've been more right than wrong on your evaluations and I've come to respect them. With Cody, do you see him as being able to play RDE in the 3-4?

2.) Trade up for McClain and sign Dansby to play ILB for us. Mayo makes no big plays and even though Guyton probably outplayed Mayo in 2009, the bottom line is Guyton needs to be in the Pinewood Derby; which happens every game day; on the bench!

Guyton is better in sub-packages, I agree. I honestly believe that Mayo hasn't made any Big Plays because the lack of talent at the OLBs have caused the Pats to keep a hold on him and limit what he does. Having an ILB like Dansby and ONE good OLB who can be like Vrabel would allow the Pats to unleash Mayo.

3.) Move Merriweather for FS and get a head hunter for the SS spot. Our defense needs to reclaim the middle of the field and that is best accomplished by making the opposing offense scared to run through there. McGowan probvided a little of that early, but apparently McGowan has all the communication skills of a statue; which led to blown coverages.

Chung is supposedly that SS. It remains to be seen if he turns into that. I have high hopes for Chung and think that he CAN become the SS that people want. Someone like a Harrison.
 
You don't know that Tate can't stay healthy. He was a rookie this year who suffered an ACL tear in October of 2008 during his senior year of College. That's a 12 to 18 month recovery time for most players. There were NO confirmed reports as to what injury put him on the IR. In fact, for all we know, the Pats shut him down because they felt that he'd be better for them by being 100% healthy for the start of 2010 than by only being 70-80% for the rest of 2009 with a bigger chance of getting hurt and missing the entirety of 2010. They could have, very well, learned from the Chad Jackson and Bethel Johnson Injuries..

If that was the case, why activate him in the first place? This explanation makes no sense in light of what was actually done.
 
We need a tougher middle defense.

1.) Draft Cody. Regardless of whatever happens with Wilfork.

2.) Trade up for McClain and sign Dansby to play ILB for us. Mayo makes no big plays and even though Guyton probably outplayed Mayo in 2009, the bottom line is Guyton needs to be in the Pinewood Derby; which happens every game day; on the bench!

3.) Move Merriweather for FS and get a head hunter for the SS spot. Our defense needs to reclaim the middle of the field and that is best accomplished by making the opposing offense scared to run through there. McGowan probvided a little of that early, but apparently McGowan has all the communication skills of a statue; which led to blown coverages.

Too much emphasis on the draft. There is no way one team could bring in those 3 players. The Pats will be lucky to get one of them. Dont get me wrong, they are great players but I just dont see how a team could draft all 3 of them.

If Guyton outplayed Mayo this year then why does he belong on the bench? Mayo really didnt have as bad of a year as people think, he missed 3 or 4 games in the beginning of the season and I think he came back too soon and was not 100%. He will be back next year and Guyton is valuable to this team especially in sub packages.

I think Merriweather is fine at SS, he was a pro bowler. Yes at times he makes some mistakes, but then there are times that he makes big plays. Chung is a potential player at FS and I wouldnt count McGowan out yet. He made some big plays early in the year but then struggled against the pass towards the end of the year.
 
Ochmed - over the years, you've been more right than wrong on your evaluations and I've come to respect them. With Cody, do you see him as being able to play RDE in the 3-4?



Guyton is better in sub-packages, I agree. I honestly believe that Mayo hasn't made any Big Plays because the lack of talent at the OLBs have caused the Pats to keep a hold on him and limit what he does. Having an ILB like Dansby and ONE good OLB who can be like Vrabel would allow the Pats to unleash Mayo.



Chung is supposedly that SS. It remains to be seen if he turns into that. I have high hopes for Chung and think that he CAN become the SS that people want. Someone like a Harrison.

Cody play DE? What are you smoking, the guy can hardly move. He's so gassed by the end of games he's near useless. He's great at clogging up the middle pushing the center back (man would I love to see Koppen have to face him in prace every day!).

As to what to we need? How to rebuild? Well, did you ever see pictures of Nazi Germany after the surrender? Wasn't a pretty sight. What do you think was their answer to "what to rebuild first"? It was OVERWHELMING.

I don't think we're that bad off, but
1. MLB,
2. pass rush (useless to draft here as BB won't let them play, won't even let Crable on the damn team and he's a GREAT PASS RUSHER), and a

3. competent 2nd WR....and maybe a potential replacement #1 in case randy gets moody during the post-season...and a
4. CENTER.

Light needs to be moved inside or cut also.
 
WR- Tate hasnt proven anything so it is hard to really count on him contributing next year. Welker is not a guarantee to be ready for the start of 2010, so we definitely need to go out and get another WR. Personally, I would go out and try and get 2 and have Tate compete with the other one on training camp for a roster spot.

Defense- The defense will definitely get better with time, but the defense is still lacking a pass rush. They dont really have any players to develop into great pass rushers. I am confident that the secondary will be fine with the players we have, although we need to resign Bodden. We definitely need to add an OLB that can get after the QB and add a DL. The key to our defense is to resign Wilfork. He is the best player on our defense and needs to get resigned.

There is no way that this team could have ever been 15-1, 14-2 with a Brady from 2002-2007. A big factor this season that has been discussed many times on here has been the lack of an OC. It had an effect on the whole offense, the play calling, the wasting of time outs to prevent delay of game penalties, delay of game penalties, Brady's play and lack of in game adjustments. With Charlie or Josh I think this team would have been better than 10-6, but definitely not 15-1 or 14-2


I find it hard if not impossible to believe we lose the Jets/ Broncos/ Colts/ Dolphins games with the 2002-2007 Brady. However, the IF and it's a big IF is do we get that Brady back. Here's my point:

Notice all the talk of Garcon/Collie and Goober talk? Wonders are made of a QB having a full offseason to work with young receivers. Why draft Tate if he can never make it back?

Merriweather/Chung/Butler/Mayo/Guyton/ Whilitie are all young players. Compare them in age to the Jets. How much longer is that roster going to be around? Revis is their only good young player.

This site should have recognized that Brady coming back would be a crap shoot. Couple this with tons of young players and this year was a crap shoot.
 
I find it hard if not impossible to believe we lose the Jets/ Broncos/ Colts/ Dolphins games with the 2002-2007 Brady. However, the IF and it's a big IF is do we get that Brady back. Here's my point:

Notice all the talk of Garcon/Collie and Goober talk? Wonders are made of a QB having a full offseason to work with young receivers. Why draft Tate if he can never make it back?

Merriweather/Chung/Butler/Mayo/Guyton/ Whilitie are all young players. Compare them in age to the Jets. How much longer is that roster going to be around? Revis is their only good young player.

This site should have recognized that Brady coming back would be a crap shoot. Couple this with tons of young players and this year was a crap shoot.

I dont understand your point....

Are you saying that the Pats offense wasnt that good this season because Brady couldnt work with Aiken, Edelman, Galloway, Baker and any other new players?

Not sure what you're saying about the Jets D either? Are you saying that our defense will be better than the Jets defense in the upcoming years? I am a little confused. I wouldnt worry about being better than the Jets, look at being better than the Colts and Chargers, the real heavyweights of the AFC
 
Re: Rebuilding where do we start

Cornerback is where I would start. Outside looking in. I don't know the Pats as well as you guys do but CB seems like such a weakness.

True

but a good pass rush takes a lot of pressure off the secondary. I think if the Pats could get into the backfield with a little more consistency the secondary would look like a much better unit.

I think outside of an OL, WR is the biggest need. With Welker hurt and Moss looking super banged up we have 0 targets for Brady. I mean there best hope if they don't find someone to catch the ball is to just run a goal line offense every play
 
Jangles apparently everyone thinks our pass rush is fine.:rolleyes:Burgess was a big dissapoinment.Sometimes i think it could be coaching as well.I know this franchise wont go out there and give Peppers big money.
 
Last edited:
If that was the case, why activate him in the first place? This explanation makes no sense in light of what was actually done.

It makes plenty of sense if you know anything about knee injuries. The Pats activated him when they did because they needed him at the time and because Tate had reached a point in his re-hab where they needed to start doing normal football activity with it. After each practice and each game, I can guarantee you that Tate was in the trainer's room having his knee checked out. During the first couple of weeks, there will be swelling, but less and less each time. That's normal. However, if the swelling continued or the knee felt less strong or weak or whatever, they shut him down from game activities and continue him on strength building rehab from then until spring camps begin. That way he's protected and won't suffer a more severe injury.

Could something else have happened? Yes. Could Tate have injured his other knee? Yep. But we don't know.

My theory is just as plausible as anything else that has been thrown out there.
 
Cody play DE? What are you smoking, the guy can hardly move. He's so gassed by the end of games he's near useless. He's great at clogging up the middle pushing the center back (man would I love to see Koppen have to face him in prace every day!).

Listen. It was a simple question based on the fact that Ochmed has watched Cody for at least the Past 2 years. As for him being a 3-4 DE, thats a lot different than being a 4-3 DE in case you didn't have a clue.

As to what to we need? How to rebuild? Well, did you ever see pictures of Nazi Germany after the surrender? Wasn't a pretty sight. What do you think was their answer to "what to rebuild first"? It was OVERWHELMING.

I don't think we're that bad off, but
1. MLB,
2. pass rush (useless to draft here as BB won't let them play, won't even let Crable on the damn team and he's a GREAT PASS RUSHER), and a

3. competent 2nd WR....and maybe a potential replacement #1 in case randy gets moody during the post-season...and a
4. CENTER.

Light needs to be moved inside or cut also.

As for the rest of your assessment. Great job rehashing what everyone else has said there. But, I have news for you. The Pats don't need another MLB. They need an ILB. Preferably one to play the SILB position so Mayo can be at the WILB.

As for the pass rush, the Pats need an OLB who can rush the passer AND set the edge. Being able to drop back into zone coverage would be a bonus. If they could get 3 good LBers and a mediocre one for the other OLB position, they'd be fine because they could rush any one of the four at any time and be better for it.. Much like they did in 2003 and 2004.
 
It makes plenty of sense if you know anything about knee injuries. The Pats activated him when they did because they needed him at the time and because Tate had reached a point in his re-hab where they needed to start doing normal football activity with it. After each practice and each game, I can guarantee you that Tate was in the trainer's room having his knee checked out. During the first couple of weeks, there will be swelling, but less and less each time. That's normal. However, if the swelling continued or the knee felt less strong or weak or whatever, they shut him down from game activities and continue him on strength building rehab from then until spring camps begin. That way he's protected and won't suffer a more severe injury.

Could something else have happened? Yes. Could Tate have injured his other knee? Yep. But we don't know.

My theory is just as plausible as anything else that has been thrown out there.

I know quite a bit about knee injuries, actually. If "your theory" is what was followed, people on the medical staff would lose their jobs for incompetence.
 
I find it hard if not impossible to believe we lose the Jets/ Broncos/ Colts/ Dolphins games with the 2002-2007 Brady. However, the IF and it's a big IF is do we get that Brady back. Here's my point:

Notice all the talk of Garcon/Collie and Goober talk? Wonders are made of a QB having a full offseason to work with young receivers. Why draft Tate if he can never make it back?

Merriweather/Chung/Butler/Mayo/Guyton/ Whilitie are all young players. Compare them in age to the Jets. How much longer is that roster going to be around? Revis is their only good young player.

This site should have recognized that Brady coming back would be a crap shoot. Couple this with tons of young players and this year was a crap shoot.

Brady was able to work all offseason, per the reports. That didn't help when it came to Galloway, Lewis and Lewis, and it certainly didn't turn Sam Aiken into Pierre Garcon.
 
Listen. It was a simple question based on the fact that Ochmed has watched Cody for at least the Past 2 years. As for him being a 3-4 DE, thats a lot different than being a 4-3 DE in case you didn't have a clue.



As for the rest of your assessment. Great job rehashing what everyone else has said there. But, I have news for you. The Pats don't need another MLB. They need an ILB. Preferably one to play the SILB position so Mayo can be at the WILB.

As for the pass rush, the Pats need an OLB who can rush the passer AND set the edge. Being able to drop back into zone coverage would be a bonus. If they could get 3 good LBers and a mediocre one for the other OLB position, they'd be fine because they could rush any one of the four at any time and be better for it.. Much like they did in 2003 and 2004.

Easy there Mr. Pit Bull!

OK, the answer is a resounding NO, Cody cannot play 3-4. I was surprised the question was asked. And yes, I realize 3-4 and 4-3 DE are different.

Mayo may be done. That's what they get for rushing him back from a knee injury.
 
This is a pretty good summary of the Pats needs this offseason. While we may not agree with everything stated, it's pretty darn close.

New England Patriots

The New England Patriots: Final Grades for 2009

The New England Patriots won the AFC East Division and made the playoffs again after missing them last year. The ironic thing being that they actually had a better record last season (11-5) than this year (10-6).

Needless to say, competing at the continuously high level that this franchise has over the last decade is no easy task and, despite being ousted by the Wild Card Ravens in the first round this year and disappointing the expectations of their fans once again, the Patriots already seem poised to make another run again next year.

Before that can happen though, a few pieces need to be added to the puzzle. A few holes have become extremely apparent on the team’s roster. With the right amount of tinkering and a small infusion of youthful talent, this team could find itself right in the Super Bowl once again.

Coaching: B This may have be a “rebuilding” year of sorts in New England as the team had to work out some new wrinkles. Head coach Bill Belichick lost a few assistants last off-season, including offensive coordinator/quarterbacks coach Josh McDaniels who took the head coaching job in Denver. Belichick then assisted new quarterbacks coach Bill O’Brien on drawing up a game plan and calling plays in 2009. They still ranked third in the NFL in total yards per game and third in passing. The defense was not quite up to New England standards but they still ranked 11th in total yards allowed. The a few more sacks and a couple more timely impact plays from the front seven could’ve made the situation a lot different in Foxboro. Overall, the unit is young and should continue to be good down the road. Don’t expect much change within this staff.

Quarterbacks: B Tom Brady passed for another 4398 yards and 28 touchdowns. The guy continues to be a winner after missing all of last season with a knee injury.

Draft Outlook: The Patriots may grab a QB somewhere in the draft to come in and compete for the backup job. Taking Tim Tebow if he’s still available in round two could really make things interesting in New England. If Belichick does take him it would be because he has something specific in mind for him but there will be some decent QB options available later in the draft.

Running Backs: C- This group is in desperate need of an overhaul. Laurence Maroney led the team with 757 yards on a 3.9 yard per carry average. The team had a total of 19 rushing TD’s with Maroney getting nine of them.

Draft Outlook: With the 22nd pick in this year’s draft Belichick could get Stanford running back Toby Gerhart. He is big, tough, and faster than most might think. He could bring a dimension to the offense that has been lacking since Corey Dillon was lining up back there.

Wide Receivers: B- Many fans and critics alike seem to think that this group underachieved a bit in 2009. Wes Welker had 123 receptions for 1348 yards but only had four TD’s. Randy Moss had 83 for 1264 yards and 13 TD’s. Those are both very good numbers but I guess we are all used to seeing these guys blow up the scoreboard. Times were tough for them as no receiver established himself as a legitimate third option. Rookie Julian Edelman, out of Kent State University, was the third most productive wide-out with 37 for 359 and only one TD. It’s hard to expect the starters to be so good when there is a huge lack of a running game and no help from the bench on third and long situations.

Draft Outlook: Don’t expect Belichick to grab a receiver in round one. However, it will not be a surprise to see him grab a couple later on. There will most likely be a wealth of decent receiver prospects between rounds three and five, possibly including Texas’ Jordan Shipley, Bowling Green’s Freddie Barnes (#1 in NCAA in receptions), Florida’s Riley Cooper, and the Citadel’s Andre Roberts.

Offensive Line: C+ This unit is made up of a bunch of overachievers that only allowed 18 sacks in ’09. They are decent run blockers but they are not great by any means. They are partly to blame for the team's lackluster ability to rush the ball when needed. Does everybody remember the infamous 4th and 2 play against the Colts? Well, not to put the blame on them but an offensive line built to run a little better could’ve helped a lot as the there was no threat to run at all.

Draft Outlook: There are not a lot of good quality tackles available this year and the team spent three picks on O-linemen last year.

Defensive Line: C Richard Seymour, who had been with the Patriots for eight seasons, was traded to the Oakland Raiders for a first round pick in 2011. The move was really a good one as Seymour turns 30 this year. The defense only ranked 13th in the league against the run but it is filled with a few young guys who were all high draft picks.

Draft Outlook: Belichick loves to keep his D-line stocked with talent and he spent three draft picks here last year. There may be some guys, however, that will be too hard to pass up this even though the position is filled with talented youth. Penn State’s Jared Odrick (6’5” 300 lbs.) and Duke’s Vince Oghobaase (6'6" 310 lbs.) are good tackle prospects who could both still be around when the team picks in the third round.

Linebackers: B- Jerod Mayo, last year’s defensive rookie of the year, led the team in tackles with 103 and should be leader on this defense for the next decade. After him the unit looks weak. Nobody really stepped up and Junior Seau will finally retire. Help is needed here.

Draft Outlook: I am willing to bet that the team invests some picks here, especially on guys who can rush the passer and attack the line of scrimmage. Texas' Sergio Kindle, South Carolina’s Eric Norwood, and Michigan’s Brandon Graham could all bring a boost to the team’s pass-rush and overall talent at the position.

Defensive Backs: Cornerbacks Shawn Springs and Leigh Bodden were serviceable but are not the long term answers. Springs is close to retirement. Bodden is a good tackler, making 55 stops, but he is not a big play-maker. Although he did nab five INT’s. Rookie Darius Butler, a second round pick last year, showed some promise, making 35 tackles and getting three INT’s. Jonathan Wilhite, a second year player, also had a decent showing with 45 tackles and two INT’s. The safety position seems to be in good hands for a while with third year player Brandon Meriweather making 83 tackles, nabbing five INT’s and forcing two fumbles. Brandon McGowan, Patrick Chung, and James Sanders all contributed but were not outstanding. All three are young though, and the competition for the other starting spot should be a heated battle in camp.

Draft Outlook: The cornerback crop is not very strong and the Patriots have a lot of young potential in the secondary. Somebody may be added later in the draft but don’t expect Belichick to invest too much more into the position.

Special Teams: The Patriots ranked 15th in kick returns, fourth in kickoff coverage, and dead last in punting. This is an area of need.
Draft Outlook: Michigan’s Zoltan Mesko may be the best punter in the draft. He has a big leg with decent accuracy and was an All-American. Some more young linebackers, receivers, and defensive backs to help in coverage could help as well.

By Scot A****s
New England Patriots
 
Another site that is speculating the Pats will draft Tebow. That just ain't happening. The topic was beat to death in another thread a few days ago, but given the number of other positions that need an upgrade there's no way the Pats ignore those needs and take Tebow. In fact, I highly doubt they draft a QB at all, as this site thinks will happen if they don't take Tebow. Brady is the starter and Hoyer is the backup; there's no reason to draft another QB. I'm sure they'll sign another vet free agent in the offseason, but it will be questionable whether they go with three quarterbacks on the roster.

I think the effect of fantasy football may have taken it's toll on the analysis of the running backs. The Pats are a middle of the pack team as far as their running game goes; 12th in yards per game, tied for 19th - with the Giants and Vikings, by the way - in yards per carry.

Not the worst analysis in the world, but there were a few comments in there that left me wishing the author had done a bit more homework. The grades seem a bit harsh for a team that won the division.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Not a First Round Pick? Hoge Doubles Down on Maye
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/11: News and Notes
Back
Top