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Rebuilding: Where do we start

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatriotNation, Jan 24, 2010.

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  1. PatriotNation

    PatriotNation Rookie

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    We have a QB that can take us quite far... but in my opinon we need to:
    Offense
    1) protect the QB, Brady is amazing with time.
    Guard play and ROT was horrible this year
    2) WR : It bgeins with Moss and ends with Welker
    Aiken, Edelman and Tate may be helpful but not scaring anyone....
    With Welker's injury this becomes a desperate need
    Defense
    1) Find a leader!
    2) Get more talent on the DL, if we stay with the 3-4, we need more quality depth. (sign Wilfork, move Brace to DE) and find quality depth.
    3) LB core is sub par, Mayo is a budding star (so was Vincent Brown), get him some help inside and move Guyton to OLB where he belongs.
    4) Pass rush is paramount, find one! Blitz or find natural pass rushers that can play this D!
    5) CB : 3 quality CBs are nessesary these days, sign bodden is a must, ( no clue what to do with springs) and draft a 2 players with size that can play middle rounds.

    All in all we are falling behind the pack, Pats need to adapt to the new NFL and BB needs to adjust. Pats have never really had an identity, they are an ameboa for every situation. Problem is they just dont have the talent or the supporting cast to be that flexible. The next 2 drafts will really determine the future of this team for the next 10 years.

    Draft needs:
    1) OL
    2) DL
    3) WR
    4) OLB
    5) ILB
    6) QB

    We have so many picks in a strong draft perhaps we should use them like other teams instead of trading for the future.

    IMO we have missed too many play makers at the LB position, due to stuborness at BB's level. Look at game changes such as Dansby and Mathews among others which we have passed on.
  2. RyanTheColtsFan

    RyanTheColtsFan Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    Cornerback is where I would start. Outside looking in. I don't know the Pats as well as you guys do but CB seems like such a weakness.
  3. TOzgood

    TOzgood Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    I was listening on 98.5 and Felger said that he thinks the Patriots won't re-sign Ghost and his re-signing is not important. After watching this years playoffs, I think we would be CRAZY to let someone like Ghost walk.
  4. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    Why a QB? Hoyer has been good. Team has too many needs this year to take another young QB IMO. Maybe another WR instead, I wouldn't mind getting the next Branch/Givens combo in this draft

    Agree with the rest.
  5. Brady to Brown

    Brady to Brown Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    Gost has made a name for himself, like Wilfork and the many others that have been moved out. If the player does not take less money than he can earn elsewhere then he is gone. This way of thinking must change.
  6. Brady to Brown

    Brady to Brown Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    As far as the rebuilding goes I would like to see the Patriots draft a good RB and let him run the ball. 4, 5 or 6 RB'S is NOT the answer.

    Also note today when the Jets had both Wayne and Clarke covered Manning killed the Jets with 2 other WR's. Number one the Patriots d not have this kind of talent and number 2 as long as Moss is on this team Brady will continue to force the ball to him while not even looking at anyone else other than Welker.

    While being a unique talent Moss is not good for this team. IMHO.
  7. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    As Bill Lumbergh would say: mmm, yeah, I'm going to have to disagree about OLB being only the 4th need in the draft. And mmm, yeah, I'm also going to have to disagree with the need to take a quarterback with the 6th draft pick.
  8. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    My priorities:

    1. DE
    2. OLB (both need to pass rush)
    3. WR
    4. WR
    5. OLB/DE
    6. ILB
    7. G
    8. WR
    9. TE

    We need lots of good bodies at DE and OLB. We need 2 DEs (assuming Green is gone).

    We need an OLB to take Adalius's spot and one to beat out Tully.

    We need a good ILB to have a rotation with Guyton and the new guy.

    As for time for Brady, if you give the D all they can handle in terms of covering pass catchers, the OL suddenly lands in the Pro Bowl. Light, Mankins, Koppen were in the Pro Bowl two years ago. Think about that.

    We need a pass rush and playmaking LBs.

    Luckily, I don't see this as rebuilding. If we somehow trade down or trade future picks for picks this year, you can grab 6 guys in the first 3 rounds, or 8 in four. The draft is so deep that you can go a long way toward filling your needs.

    If you go the free agent route and land a guy like Dansby, you're a step ahead of the game. A replacement for Neal is needed but I do not see this as important a need as pass rusher and receiver.
  9. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    Leigh Bodden, Darius Butler, Shawn Springs, Jonathan Wilhite, Terrence Wheatley.


    Something is telling me the Patriots are not going for a CB unless they can't resign Bodden.
  10. Scouse Patriot

    Scouse Patriot Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    Kicking game often gets the knock in football but I guarantee teams will be scrambling for a half decent kicker, let alone one of the most accurate and solid in the NFL.

    Not important? Whatever man...
  11. lovsn

    lovsn Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    Moving back to a 4-3

    Too many teams looking for too few players who can play 3-4 positions means the quality available to you goes down and price goes up
  12. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    O-line: Not to much work to be done here IMO, Guard in the draft or through FA and maybe another tackle through the draft if were going BPA.

    LB: If we were a 4-3 team this would be DE but for us its OLB, ILB is another area we should look at because Guyton is not the answer, maybe in passing downs but not an every down player.

    WR: At least two more starting quality wideouts are needed. One through the Draft and one through FA is probably the way to go.

    RB: No we do not need a big bruiser like Dixon or Gerhart, we need a good mix of size and speed. Jonathan Dwyer is probably the perfect back if size and speed is what your looking for but a Homerun threat is as much of a need. CJ Spiller, Best, McKnight, or McCluster are good fits.

    TE: If Watson leaves TE will be a priorty for us unless your comfortable with Chris Baker as the starting TE.

    CB: If Bodden leaves were F***ed! Better start signing and drafting because Butler, Wilhite and Springs are our only quality corners IMO.

    D-Line Depth: I fully expcet us to resign or atleast franchise Wilfork but if not this jumps toward the top of the list and Terrance Cody or Dan Williams better be on their way here come late April.

    So Basically, Saftey, QB, OT, and maybe DT/DE are where we dont need much help if any.
  13. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    I had a chance to see Crabel play, and boy that's just a straight shooter with upper management written all over him.
  14. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    If there is no cap, he is a RFA. He won't be going anywhere. He is a very good kicker with a great kick off. I doubt the Pats will let him go especially considering even the highest paid kickers don't take up that much cap space. It isn't like Vinatieri when they let him go since Vinatieri was older and had back issues.
  15. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    Top priority is to get OLBs.
    Next is an ILB next to Mayo.
    Then a DE.
    Then WR depth.
    Then a starting RB.
  16. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    Hasn't this already been started? Look at the defense of 2009 vs 2007.
  17. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    I already outlined my plan a week ago:

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england.../314602-january-15-2010-offseason-mock.html

    But to outline the priorities:

    1. Add playmakers anywhere.
    2. Change the coaching staff and get more diversified on offense and more aggressive and attacking on defense.
    3. Resign/tender key personnel: Wilfork, Bodden, Mankins, Ghost
    4. Get a true SILB next to Mayo and add a strongside and weakside pass rusher
    5. Address the RG position and the offensive line, and add some young legs at RB, preferably a playmaker
    6. Add a 3rd WR in FA
    7. Depth everywhere else
  18. zipster9

    zipster9 Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    I think the Patriots need to select smarter in the Draft.

    Look at the Colts (2009 AFC winners) : Garson, Addai, Sanders, Gonzalez...

    How many duds did we have last year? Look at how many picks we got.

    It's not the # of picks, but, what players you are targeting for.

    I dont buy the idea "best available player at that time"...

    Look at the picks of 2009. Most of the rookies are injured, or no-impact or released.

    So far, biggest rookie duds are: Brace & Crable.

    Got lucky with Vollmer.
  19. zipster9

    zipster9 Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    Forgot. Todays AFC game, Austin Collie, WR stepped up.

    Geez.. 4th rounder...
  20. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    Gonzalez has been on IR this year and hasn't contributed to the Colts SB team. Addai hasn't been much better than Maroney. Solid, but nothing special. I'd take Maurice Jones-Drew (who went in the 2nd round in 2006) by a mile over both. Sanders has been excellent but injury prone.

    I don't buy your argument. The Colts have had their share of duds. They traded up (giving up a 2008 1st round pick) for Jeff Otah, who has been passed up on the depth chart at LT. Donald Brown ran for 281 yards (3.6 YPC) this year - we would be screaming that he was a bust if we had drafted him at #27 and gotten that kind of production, just like you're calling Brace a dud. The Colts had 4 picks in the 6th round in 2008 - Pierre Garcon is the only one who has emerged as an important player, and he did nothing as a rookie.

    The Colts are one of the best drafting teams in the NFL, without a doubt. But your argument doesn't hold up.

    2009 major contributors drafted after the 6th round = 3 (Edelman, Pryor and Ingram)
    2009 draft picks to make the 53 man roster, go on IR, or make the practice squad = 12 (plus UDFA Brian Hoyer)

    No one's going to bat 1.000.
  21. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    I don't know what the heck Felger is smoking (maybe it's kielbasa for Rex Ryan :rolleyes:), but there's also the fact that the Patriots haven't even brought in a camp leg since they gave Gostkowski the job in 2006.

    Just as importantly, who would they replace him with? I can't see anybody available who would be equal to Gostkowski, let alone better.
  22. muzz

    muzz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    Wilhiite and Wheatley are USELESS, Springs is old and wasn't even active for what, 4 games?
    I think Butler showed promise, but the only other player in that list that I have ANY confidence in is Bodden.
    I say CB SHOULD be something they draft for, and PRAY that he takes a PLAYER instead of some combine freak, then he can have a young and hungry secondary, instead of BUMS like Willy and Buckwheat.
  23. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    Felger has gone over the deep end with his "the Pats won't spend this offseason" rant. Eventhough the Pats will have to spend tens of millions in free agency this offseason just to be cheap, he is convinced that the Pats won't spend more than a couple of million eventhough their current payroll is lower than any year since 2002 by about $10-20 million.
  24. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    In view of the CBA turmoil, IMO, the Pats will try to backfill areas of weakness, possibly even trading down their 1st rd pick if no player excites them. The lack of free agent extensions (ex.-Kaczur sets the bottom for O-line talent; nothing for Wilfork) indicates a bunker mentality. Its unlikely long-term deals for top talent will be made until there is a rookie salary cap or the current turmoil is settled.

    While this may make long-term sense, the teams competitiveness may suffer for a couple of years but be well poised for the future thereafter.
  25. Urgent

    Urgent Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    My reactions:

    This OL is as good as any of the Pats Super Bowl teams. If Vollmer is LT next year, Matt Light is at least as good as Robinson-Randall or any of the RT-of-the-years. If Neal retires they need a guard, but you can find guards, and maybe they like Ohrnberger.

    DL - move Brace to DE. Brace cannot play DE. He has marginal agility and speed for NT. He cannot play DE. The Pats do need to take a 3-4 DE in the draft. There are several that might be available with their top #2 pick.

    WR - clearly the Pats need a second receiver - another Gaffney. There's not a lot of viable vets available in free agency, but that is usually the safer route. The Pats could use a big possession receiver to complement Moss and Edelman/injured Welker.

    LB - in my mind the top offseason priority. It would be great to get Julius Peppers, assuming Carolina doesn't give him the $20mm franchise. The list of free agent LB's drops off pretty quickly after him. The Patriots still need to develop a young OLB, and we all hope this is the year. Enormous weakness.

    ILB - far less of a priority. Hopefully McKenzie comes back, Guyton improves, and the Pats pick up a fourth ILB.

    QB - it would be nice to pick up a back-up, but probably just as important to get a TE or young RB.
  26. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    It is six weeks until free agency. Bodden said that they were not making offers to upcoming free agents until early February.

    The Pats are approaching Wilfork the same way they approached Asante Samuel. Did they approach Samuel that way because of the lack of a CBA in 2011?

    Fact of the matter is, the Pats like most teams are in limbo. Depending on how the CBA negotiations go, they have several marquee players who might either be RFAs or UFAs. That means if they rush off and make moves now on a number of players now, they could paint themselves into a corner of they agree on a CBA come mid February. What if the Pats resign Wilfork and Bodden expecting Mankins and Gostkowski will be restricted free agents only to find out that they will be unrestricted free agents and they will be unable to retain either of them and make the other moves they hoped to make in free agency.

    It is doubtful the Pats or many other teams will make moves in trying to retain their current free agents until they are sure this is going to be an uncapped year or not.
  27. The_Riddler

    The_Riddler Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    Keep BB away from the draft table

    Secondly, play the damn top picks and play them and develop them early like the damn Colts do.

    You deal down for numerous 2nd round picks that by rule you can only sign to 4-year deals and we basically sit a Patrick Chung on the sidelines for the majority of the year and play JAGs in his spot. This strategy is garbage !!

    You need to play the high picks early and develop them "especially" where they are only on 4 years deals. By the time we see any pay back on the investment, they are UFAs.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2010
  28. DW Toys

    DW Toys Rookie

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    I don't agree with everything but most of what you say has merit.
    DW Toys
  29. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Rebuilding where do we start

    One of the concessions the NFLPA will almost certainly have to make to get a new CBA signed is that this year's FA will proceed as it is currently slated to do. There is no way 24 owners will accept 200+ FAs suddenly hitting the market like that.
  30. TulanePats

    TulanePats Rookie

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    10-6 #3 seed, and we're talking about "rebuilding".
    We're so spoiled. Love it!
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