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Reality check: Jimmy Carter vs. Ronald Reagan

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Tunescribe, Apr 11, 2010.

  1. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    Views from a Hill

    Conventional wisdom says that Jimmy Carter was a weak president who led the nation into a state of malaise, and then Ronald Reagan came along and made us believe in ourselves again. The conventional wisdom is firmly ensconced. Journalists, politicians, and mainstream historians all spout it. But it’s not the truth.

    During the Carter presidency there was a brief moment when the window was open to the possibility of making some much needed change. Vietnam had left the country in bad shape—politically, economically, and psychologically. We were down, but it had nothing to do with Carter. That was already the situation when he came into office. He’s been the only president in my lifetime who said openly that the country ran on some false assumptions. One of the most egregious is the idea that we can constantly raise our standard of living, that there can be endless economic growth. This is an impossibility logically, and he seems to have known it.

    Carter made some effort to get the country to understand that we were entering an era of limits. He tried to get people to take the energy situation seriously. He was vilified for telling the truth. Reagan came along and undid any progress Carter may have made toward opening up a discussion about reality. One of Reagan’s first acts as president was to take down the solar panels that Carter had had installed on the White House roof—one of the most foolish symbolic moves any American president has ever made. He liked to say that “conservation just means we all freeze in the dark.” It says a great deal about the man. He gave people simple answers and resold the people on the fantasy aspects of the American Dream. The prosperity that followed was all done on credit. As somebody once said, “we borrowed money from the Japanese and threw a party.” There wasn’t any new era of production, and in the end that’s what creates real wealth. We’ve been living in Reagan’s dream world ever since.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2010
  2. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    I agree when i've gone back and looked at Carters presidency it was nothing like it is portrayed by the conservatives here. I also view Reagan as the individual who started the economic downward spiral that effects most Americans today. It was under Reagan that deregulation of finance and industry was initiated.
    Reaganomics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    1. Reduce government spending,
    2. Reduce income and capital gains marginal tax rates,
    3. Reduce government regulation of the economy,
    4. Control the money supply to reduce inflation.

    In his stated intention to increase on domestic spending while lowering taxes, Reagan's approach was a departure from his immediate predecessors. Reagan succeeded with lower marginal tax rates in conjunction with simplified income tax codes, and continued deregulation.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2010
  3. DarrylS

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    Reagan was also negotiating with Iran, in secret and prior to his inaugaration.. which is probably illegal.. that along with the Iran Contra mess would have deemed him impeachable in this day and age.

    There was no internet, and if there was he would have retired in disgrace to California sooner rather than later..
     
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good post, but when Republicans have to choose among the likes of Nixon, Bush II, Steele, Agnew, Palin, and Quayle, Reagan looks pretty good, even though he was senile and ignorant.
     
  5. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan In the Starting Line-Up

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    It seems like whenever I tell my GOP anti-Obama friends how internment camps(i.e. FEMA death camps) are being implemented now, they pretty much take this seriously, and get concerned over preparing for the near future, warning people, etc.

    HOWEVER - when I subsequently tell them how RONALD REAGAN was the guy that INITIALLY came up with the idea in the 1980's, that's when they'll say, "OK, I've heard enough".

    Ditto this bloody Iraq war - whenever I tell my Dem pro-Obama friends how this war was a HUGE mistake, they are in completely agreement, but when I add how Obama is continuining to escalate the wars in Afhganistan and Iraq by increasing war funding and troops, THAT'S when they put on the BRAKES and say, "I've heard enough of this".

    Bottom line - BOTH parties are in the same bed together, they just happen to put on a show when they're in front of the camera alot like WWF.
     
  6. DisgruntledTunaFan

    DisgruntledTunaFan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Reagan did a few good things - he called out the Federal Reserve(i.e. the Grace Commission he formed revealed that NOT ONE nickel of our tax dollars goes to paying for government programs, but INSTEAD pays down this HUGE national deficit et al).

    However - he was not exactly a "freedom fighter" like the MSM portrayed him to be. He was an honorary 33rd Degree Freemason, he attended the Bohemian Grove "festivities" for over 30 years, and the list goes on and on.
     
  7. efin98

    efin98 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    You missed a few:
    Lincoln. Roosevelt. Taft. McKinley. Coolidge. Eisenhower. Some of the best ever and all Republicans :rolleyes:
     
  8. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    When we have to point out politicans as being the best of us, we've already lost.
     
  9. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Boy I miss those 21% interest rates during the Carter presidency.
     
  10. DeadFox

    DeadFox Rookie

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    is that being sarcastic? as in, was it good or bad to be paying those rates?

    because if your just being an a-hole... do u miss nixon and vietnam?
    if your not and ur cool with carter... isn't it funny how reagan/carter is alot like bush/obama?

    carter was the one that came in to fix the real problems of those before him. just like obama has been to bush. but surely enough, people want you to believe obama is as bad as bush, so their selection will be made out to be the real hero.

    it's all bs. and it's all so very similar when looking between the fine print.
     
  11. Texxx

    Texxx Practice Squad Player

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    Well for starters Reagan is known as one of the best presidents of all time.

    Carter is widely known as one of the worst. If not the worst.


    This isn't even a fair comparison. It's like comparing Bill Walsh to Dick Juaron.


    A far better comparison to make and discuss Carter for would be Obama actually.
     
  12. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    You're kidding right ...

    You join PatsFans.com to dig up a 2 year old thread and make 1 post?

    for the record Carter fixed nothing. He was a good man who had one of the most incompetent administrations in my lifetime. had he chosen better his legacy might be better off. The worst one was the price freeze ... that was a dud. Price freezes have not worked for centuries ... backfired all of them in a horrible way. Obamacare is the latest example of the public and markets reaction to a price freeze. competition is the best controller of prices.
     
  13. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

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    Reagan's massive financial mismanagement seems to never get recognized.
     
  14. woolster22

    woolster22 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    What has he fixed? Universal health care in the form of one massive tax hike. The best part is, he said nothing to address the real problems with cost. Thousand dollar one time use tools? Thousand dollars just to put your ass in a bed, whether it is for a minute or three hours. Big hospitals choosing from bigger suppliers and neither have any interest in lowering cost when the insurance companies are there to foot the bill. They can turn around and cry poor before they go ahead and throw rate hikes at us. And guess what, we have no choice but to swallow with a smile or get it in the eye come tax time.

    If anything he just gave these monsters free reign to put the hurt on us. Don't worry though, there will be limits on the percentage they can jump year to year. My fiance is an or nurse who gets denied by her provider when she has a legitimate emergency and ends up in an ambulance on the way to a hospital.

    Viagra is covered but birth control isn't. Businessmen making day to day decisions on things that could greatly affect a patient. For instance, here in Jacksonville, the practice of counting instruments before a procedure and then again before sending the patient on to the recovery room/wherever is not done (dont worry, the businessman has you, the patient, not the bottom line on his mind there....lol). Wage freezes for hospital employees (surgeons often aren't employees of the hospital, also make the most coin, outside of previous mentioned business man) while beating the Obamacare drum. The rich get richer, on the backs of the sick. Absolutely disgusting. Why hospitals are allowed to turn profits over to owners is beyond me. Don't get me wrong, they have a right to make a return (as long as they don't take a dime from state/fed government, and no I don't mean medicare/caid), and should have money being put into CURE research (hated by big pharma/healthcare for the same reason known universally to drug dealers, you get them on the come back) and improved technology to improve patient safety/recovery/etc.

    What has Obama done for green energy? What has he done about massive corporations deemed to big to fail? What happens to the free market model when failed institutions are propped up by federal dollars instead of being corrected?

    Most importantly, when is this country going to start producing goods? This deficit isn't going to be fixed by office buildings full of people banging away at keyboards discerning what the office building next to them will try to do. Commercials won't, blow hards leaking excrement from their knob shiners trying to win elections can't even have the decency to tell us that we have some serious problems on the horizon.

    Anyone want to tell me that the ever intensifying weather systems have no correlation with an ever clarifying reality of global warming? Heat can be thought of as a measure of energy. In short, the warmer the planet becomes, the more energy available to destructive natural events of all types. We have had ice storms, thunder storms covering half the east unleashing winds approaching hurricane force. Tornados and hurricanes nearing some of the strongest on record. Ice keeps disappearing faster and faster, and that is a positive feedback cycle the more it melts the faster we warm. And where it's a the green energy funding Obama spoke of? Ethanol? Are they high? For starters, it is food. Secondly it is more expensive than the gas it is going into. Third, you cover north America in corn fields and you don't get enough ethanol to fuel US automobiles for a year.

    Speaking of getting high, why the hell are we still banging our heads against the wall with prohibition? Guess what, it sends unbelievable amounts of money outside the country, wastes money paying overweight needledicks with power trips to be four steps behind the suppliers, wastes police manpower on an herb, puts otherwise lawful citizens into the justice system (often at a young age, and even more consistently resulting in long harbored resentment), creates militias on our borders, and guess what, none of it is taxed. Coke, heroin, etc...sure, keep those illegal. Cannabis? Really?

    Sure, not all of these things are Obamas fault. I might have slipped into a rant there. Fact of the matter is, government has only been in the interest of protecting the rich's profit margins, or handing **** out to the poorest of poor. You know what really sucks about this country though? It can pay better to **** back and work the handouts than to squeak by on minimum wage jobs.

    Hey guys, we have to balance our check books, our government does too.

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
     
  15. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

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    I know you mean well, but you have to stop equating personal finances and government finances. They are so diametrically different that it's not even worth comparing.

    The ramifications of being able to print your own currency and having the world trade in it (and having investors continuously buy your bonds) makes things radically different.
     
  16. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When Reagan was president the Republicans purposely distanced himself from him... when he started to chase butterflies they all of a sudden loved him.

    Reagan is nothing more than a right wing myth, that the right needs to hang on to like some security blanket.. over the years his obvious mistakes have been outlined.. from increasing the national debt 3 times, increasing taxes 21 times, negotiating with the Iranians before he was even elected, Iran Contra, Invasion of Grenada etc...

    Reagan also was able with the help of his buddy Cheney, wrestle quite a bit of power from congress.. which has had very mixed results.

    I contend that if the internet was in full swing then as it is today, he would have been impeached for all of the illegal shenanigans he pulled..
     
  17. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    But it doesn't make running dramatically accelerating federal deficits ok, does it?

    There actually are some basic commonalities of running personal vs. government finances. Money and debt are ALWAYS & WITHOUT EXCEPTION real and relevant. They can not be ignored or a price will be paid. The longer one waits to deal with debt, the more painful that reality will become.

    There is no way around it.

    We will be dealing a lot of pain in the US for the foreseeable future. It is highly unlikely our standard of living is going to improve for future generations. Something that has never happened in US history.

    If you are unable to see the road ahead, you're just refusing to look.

    All the above will happen no matter who is POTUS.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2012
  18. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    This is a modern phenomenon, though. While it has always gone on to a degree, it has exploded since the early 80's when cable TV and the 24-hour news came into existence and that became the primary source for the news. TV face time and advertizing $$ took over the political process and we have what we have today. Candidates who look good and read telepromptors, "debates" that are nothing close to the word, and a complete lack of courage and innovation from our politicians. It's Bizarro World. The only thing worse is how the People believe that these posers are "great Americans" who will lead us.
     
  19. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    This shows the whole point of the thread and how you pathetically missed it.
     
  20. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    The big scam is the equating of households with governments, and getting the households to buy into it. Then there's the next level where the investor class wants us to believe that the US itself is the same as Greece or Portugal and proceed to strip benefits from the poor while maintaining corporate welfare for the sake of "JOBS"!
     

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