Reality check: Belichick post-2004

[richpats]

. Offensively, MORE potent?? This was the highest scoring offense in the NFL...Agreed in the Bowl they needed a larger lead..but where do u make improvements in an offense that was the best ever? .

This was the most underwhelming offensive performance in the playoffs/Super Bowl relative to the regular season in the Belichick era. To think that it averaged only 22 ppg compared to 20 ppg in 2001, that's unthinkable.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Offensively, assuming we make the playoffs, we've got to be more potent in the first 3 quarters of play. As we saw in the SB, just because we deliver a go-ahead TD doesn't mean it's the clincher. We need to have a 2-possession lead, especially in the Super Bowl. All 4 Patriot SB's under Belichick have come down to the wire, no matter how good the Patriots or their opponent is. If that continues to be the case, we subject ourself to more potential losses.

Defensively, I would place a HIGH priority on stopping the 2-minute drill, as well as improving red-zone D. We sucked in the red zone last year, and how did we lose the SB? On a red-zone TD. The 2-minute drill speaks for itself, TWO CONSECUTIVE SEASONS have ended by giving up a last-minute TD.

Offensively:

You believe we should score more points, and that the Pats' coaching just doesn't care enough to get a two possession lead?

You have not described actions that should be taken. You have described outcomes. What actions must be taken to secure this outcome?

Defensively:

- Place HIGH priority on stopping "the 2 minute drill." I see. More practice? different game plan? perhaps Asante Samuel should work with rolling an egg around on his fingertips or something?

What does "Place HIGH priority" mean? Which 2 minute drill? The Giants', as seen in game 17 (probably the best game tape we had)? The Giants' 2 minute drill as acquired through telepathy? Some other teams' 2 minute drill?

Should they "place HIGH priority" on the 2 minute drill at the expense of other areas? What if they already "place HIGH priority on stopping the 2 minute drill"? It seems very likely, in fact, that this is exactly the case.

You want to tighten up the Pats' red zone D, but the Pats' red zone D was progressively better all year. The D in general fared fine in the Super Bowl, yet the go-ahead Giants TD was in the red zone, so you feel the Pats have a porous red zone D.

Let's look at that TD, shall we? We have an all-out Blitz call, yet all we discuss here is whether Hobbs should have been on an island against Burress. Hello? The play call wasn't "Hobbs on an island against Burress, ready, break!" It was "Giganto bring the house blitz." High risk, high reward.

So are you saying that our defense in the red zone must be predictable to be better? Are you saying that we have to only run plays with known outcomes? Because there ain't none of those, kiddo. Selling out on that blitz obviously screwed us, in hindsight.

But what is the solution to making the wrong call there? Remove the all-out blitz from the range of options, to make us "better in the red zone"?

Again, give me specifics.

Why are we "bad in the red zone?" What constitutes getting "better in the red zone"? Do we need work on fundamentals? Work on playcalling? Is one individual just intolerably incompetent? Must we replace him?

What concrete actions would you take to improve this defense, so that we don't give up 17 points in another Super Bowl at an inopportune time?

PFnV

 

[richpats]

What concrete actions would you take to improve this defense, so that we don't give up 17 points in another Super Bowl at an inopportune time?

PFnV

Ah, what would YOU do? I can play that game too.

I'm a forward-thinker, that's why I am raising concerns about the coaching staff, because I'm concerned about upcoming seasons. That's my opinion, and I don't need to be a head coach to raise those concerns. I'm a fan of the team, and what I would expect from ANY coach in the NFL, will be under question from this team until they can win it all again.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Ah, what would YOU do? I can play that game too.

I'm a forward-thinker, that's why I am raising concerns about the coaching staff, because I'm concerned about upcoming seasons. That's my opinion, and I don't need to be a head coach to raise those concerns. I'm a fan of the team, and what I would expect from ANY coach in the NFL, will be under question from this team until they can win it all again.

You're not a forward-thinker, you're a backward-gazer. And all of us have rearview mirrors too.

Suggesting solutions is not "playing the game." It's coming through with some semblance of proactivity.

Otherwise bemoaning losses in hindsight is exactly what it looks like: griping. At least open your threads with "I too would like to gripe about losing the Super Bowl," or "I too am bummed." That's all I see here.

I can tell you exactly what I would do in the next season (what you call "playing that game"):

- Get Moss done;
- Get Gaffney done;
- Allow sufficient camp competition that we see what, if anything, CJ brings (pretty much a done deal that he will get his chance in camp, with this coaching staff);
- dump Stallworth and Washington if they will not restructure;
- dependent on Bruschi/Seau playing status, examine options vis a vis value assigned internally at Patriots Place for draft pick and FA optional additions at LB;
- Get Samuel done, if Samuel is doable in a way that allows the team cap wiggle room as we move toward 2010;
- Retain the coaching staff: BB, Pees, and McDaniel did fine this year from my point of view.
- Continue to focus on value approach in draft, rather than "need drafting." Within that continuum: be aware of cost and returns on high first round picks (as the Pats typically are.) Employ an extensive far-flung scouting process. Determine, for instance, whether Gholston is worth a #7 and the contract that comes with; try to ascertain trading status both prior to and within draft.
- Post draft FA redux: Same priorities: cornerback, linebacker.

You'll notice my concept of what to do (above) is exceedingly boring and conventional.

It is also practical, and taking all the data together, much more rational than any ridiculous response to single game "analysis" which consists of "score more points when I'm really really into it" or "Be more psyched."

You're distinguishing yourself only in the well-worn department of second guessing. This is not "lone prophet in the wilderness" stuff, it's griping from the armchair stuff. That's why it's so unwelcome. Not because you're "thinking outside the box," but because you're over there in a much smaller box, shouting about how outside the box you are.

It's not revolutionary, it's just boring and negative. Negative is fine when one must destroy to create, but again, you have no ideas moving forward. Just some feeling that we didn't win our OTHER super bowls by enough, and that dude, we totally FORGOT to win this one!

PFnV

 

[richpats]

You'll notice my concept of what to do (above) is exceedingly boring and conventional.

Yeah, and it totally doesn't answer my concerns. If there is one thing I didn't have an issue with this season, it's personnel. We were loaded, more importantly we were HEALTHY. We could use the personnel excuse in previous seasons (even seasons that we WON the Super Bowl), but definitely not this year. To know that we squandered this opportunity with a great personnel situation makes me question the coaching staff even more.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Yeah, and it totally doesn't answer my concerns. If there is one thing I didn't have an issue with this season, it's personnel. We were loaded, more importantly we were HEALTHY. We could use the personnel excuse in previous seasons (even seasons that we WON the Super Bowl), but definitely not this year. To know that we squandered this opportunity with a great personnel situation makes me question the coaching staff even more.

So again, going forward, you have nothing to add, and nothing can address your concerns.

Your concerns seem to be that we lost. Admittedly, that's a pretty serious concern to have, in sports - losing the damn game.

It's also a bit on the vague side. You cite the Torre example elsewhere. Well, the Yankees took action and got rid of Torre.

So the question is, what you do in BB's case. I know what Kraft did, if rumor is correct. He gave him a contract through 2013.

Void the contract? Pay what it takes and fire the best coach in the league?

Or admit that sometimes, you don't win the SB?

Does BB put the team in a position to win consistently? Yes. Did we win it this time? No.

End of "analysis."

PFnV

 

[richpats]

Your concerns seem to be that we lost.

My concern is that we will CONTINUE to lose in the playoffs, and in the NFL the "window" isn't open forever.

Feel free to write a thesis in response. It won't do you any good. You are trying to make a fan's concerns invalid just because a fan can't come up with the solutions. Get a life.

 

[Ring 6]

Yeah, and it totally doesn't answer my concerns. If there is one thing I didn't have an issue with this season, it's personnel. We were loaded, more importantly we were HEALTHY. We could use the personnel excuse in previous seasons (even seasons that we WON the Super Bowl), but definitely not this year. To know that we squandered this opportunity with a great personnel situation makes me question the coaching staff even more.

The thing about personnell is that what most observers overlook is that you are not as good as best few players on the field, in reality you are only as good as your worst few players on the field.
In the SB, our personell played poorly at at least 2 of the OL positions. Our personell was very weak in coverage at the nickel and safety position.
Its easy to say our personell was great without looking at how they actually played the game. But in that game our presonell was not very good at some pretty critical spots.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Ah, now it's "get a life" from Mr. Rational.

You now predict that we will continue to lose and the "window" is closing. Evidently you have no taste for backing up any of your nonsense, so I'll not ask you to.

It's basically the same rubbish as before. Cope, dude. It's Brady and Belichick (probably Moss too) through 2013 or so, at least. Sounds okay to me, but be despondent if that's your basic reaction to that concept.

Guess what? I've moved on. Doesn't look like you have.

Ah well, I suppose when one is "rational," one allows depression to paralyze one's mind and actions. Those who are "irrational," by contrast, are able to weigh variables as they affect long-range planning.

Must suck to be "rational."

PFnV

 

[PatsFanInVa]

The thing about personnell is that what most observers overlook is that you are not as good as best few players on the field, in reality you are only as good as your worst few players on the field.... But in that game our presonell was not very good at some pretty critical spots.

Very well said, and a crucial difference between the NFL and fantasy football

Regardless though... I like this guy. He's like the voice of all Patriots Fans' doubts and fears.

First thing you need to do moving forward is kick the doubts/fears gremlins to the curb, certainly internally. If those gremlins are half as laughable as our living instantiation here, bring it on.

PFnV

 

[richpats]

Very well said, and a crucial difference between the NFL and fantasy football

Regardless though... I like this guy. He's like the voice of all Patriots Fans' doubts and fears.

First thing you need to do moving forward is kick the doubts/fears gremlins to the curb, certainly internally. If those gremlins are half as laughable as our living instantiation here, bring it on.

PFnV

It seems like you don't mind critique of our personnel situation, but coaching staff? Blasphemy!

Oh, and I didn't see you asking this guy for a "solution".

 

[richpats]

The thing about personnell is that what most observers overlook is that you are not as good as best few players on the field, in reality you are only as good as your worst few players on the field.
In the SB, our personell played poorly at at least 2 of the OL positions. Our personell was very weak in coverage at the nickel and safety position.
Its easy to say our personell was great without looking at how they actually played the game. But in that game our presonell was not very good at some pretty critical spots.

I appreciate your ability to respect my opinion, and even disagree without mocking it. But it seems like I have crossed a line when it comes to critiquing the team. I think everyone can agree that some key personnel played poorly, but nobody but me seems to want to explore it further. As Belichick, would say, "games are won and lost in preparation" - so, IMHO, that would suggest that these players may have not been prepared adequately by the coaches, or that the coaches couldn't get them to adjust in-game.

 

[Ring 6]

Very well said, and a crucial difference between the NFL and fantasy football

Regardless though... I like this guy. He's like the voice of all Patriots Fans' doubts and fears.

First thing you need to do moving forward is kick the doubts/fears gremlins to the curb, certainly internally. If those gremlins are half as laughable as our living instantiation here, bring it on.

PFnV

I think he is doing a poor job of describing his viewpoint, expectations and the standard he is holding the team to.
Just look at some of his comments.
We have "LOST" 3 years in a row.
That type of comment sounds like the perspective is that we have an entitlement to the SB. The starting point of the argument is that we are SUPPOSED TO win the SB every year.
In reality there are 32 teams, which means you have a 3% chance of winning a SB. Not winning one for "3 long years" put us in the same shape as 28 of the other 31 teams in the NFL. And there is no doubt we had a better 3 years under any definiton than any of those 28. In the worst view possible we've been the 4th best team in the NFL the last 3 years. OH MY GOD TEAR IT UP AND START OVER!!!!!!!!!

Look, I get the feeling of frustration as much, or more than anyone. I ABSOLUTELY had come to fasten the characteristic of always making the big play in the big game, and no matter what happens, we win, to the Patriots.
The difference is I realize that expectation was unfair all along. To not realize that is to be a sore loser. As a fan, to go on a rampage of blame and criticism is being a sore loser. It adds up to "I KNEW THEY WERE THE GREATEST AND THEY LET ME DOWN".
Of course you need to vent. Of course you need to get yuor mind around the surprise and shock of a loss you never thought could happen. But to act as if we had an inalienable right to it and pi$$ed it away is sour grapes.
My comments have been directed at the plays made in the football game, and what my eyes see as the problem. That helps me understand how it happened, and what changes would bring back my confidence that we will tear through the entire league and finish the job next year. I don't see anythnig constructive in choosing a target to take my frustration out on, and holding them to an unattainable (or at least never attained) standard just so I can feel better than I was right that they were supposed to win.

 

[Ring 6]

I appreciate your ability to respect my opinion, and even disagree without mocking it. But it seems like I have crossed a line when it comes to critiquing the team. I think everyone can agree that some key personnel played poorly, but nobody but me seems to want to explore it further. As Belichick, would say, "games are won and lost in preparation" - so, IMHO, that would suggest that these players may have not been prepared adequately by the coaches, or that the coaches couldn't get them to adjust in-game.

That makes absolutely no sense.
The sum total of coaching in the game that matched up the best 2 teams in the league was that the Patriots game plan, adjustments and coaching put them in a position where THE PLAYERS NEEDED TO DEFEND ONE DRIVE, 83 YARDS OF FIELD IN 2 1/2 MINUTES AND NOT ALLOW A TD.
Thats it.
You simply cannot blame preparation for being in a position where all you have to do is NOT allow a TD in 2 1/2 minutes from 83 yards away, and you fail.
The coaches did not drop Ints. The coaches were not 4 yards off Toomer on the 3rd and 9. The coaches didnt fail to stop the 4th and 1. The coaches didnt bite on Burress' fake inside. The coaches didnt allow Kevin freakin Boss to be open for a 45 yard gain. The coaches didn't not cover Tyree closely or fail to tackle Manning before he escaped. The coaches didnt fail to block defensive players in individual battles on 15 different pass plays.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think he is doing a poor job of describing his viewpoint, expectations and the standard he is holding the team to.
Just look at some of his comments.
We have "LOST" 3 years in a row.
That type of comment sounds like the perspective is that we have an entitlement to the SB. The starting point of the argument is that we are SUPPOSED TO win the SB every year.
In reality there are 32 teams, which means you have a 3% chance of winning a SB. Not winning one for "3 long years" put us in the same shape as 28 of the other 31 teams in the NFL. And there is no doubt we had a better 3 years under any definiton than any of those 28. In the worst view possible we've been the 4th best team in the NFL the last 3 years. OH MY GOD TEAR IT UP AND START OVER!!!!!!!!!

Look, I get the feeling of frustration as much, or more than anyone. I ABSOLUTELY had come to fasten the characteristic of always making the big play in the big game, and no matter what happens, we win, to the Patriots.
The difference is I realize that expectation was unfair all along. To not realize that is to be a sore loser. As a fan, to go on a rampage of blame and criticism is being a sore loser. It adds up to "I KNEW THEY WERE THE GREATEST AND THEY LET ME DOWN".
Of course you need to vent. Of course you need to get yuor mind around the surprise and shock of a loss you never thought could happen. But to act as if we had an inalienable right to it and pi$$ed it away is sour grapes.
My comments have been directed at the plays made in the football game, and what my eyes see as the problem. That helps me understand how it happened, and what changes would bring back my confidence that we will tear through the entire league and finish the job next year. I don't see anythnig constructive in choosing a target to take my frustration out on, and holding them to an unattainable (or at least never attained) standard just so I can feel better than I was right that they were supposed to win.

The conversation puts me in mind of a story I heard, either here or among my flesh-and-blood friends...

A couple with a young kid were watching the Denver game in 05, and this kid knew nothing except super bowl victories, to his recollection. So when we finally do lose the game, everybody is so bummed out.

The kid knows it's the playoffs and knows it's important but doesn't grasp the "win or go home" nature of things... so he asks "who do we play next week?"

When the parents explain that the year is over for the Pats, the kid says "Why aren't they playing a super bowl this year?"

Not "why aren't the Pats playing it," mind you - the kid thought there was no super bowl, if the Pats' season was over. He was convinced the Pats win the super bowl at the end, and that's how football went. He couldn't grasp a super bowl with no Pats.

Thing is, the kid was like 5 or 6.

PFnV

 

[richpats]

That type of comment sounds like the perspective is that we have an entitlement to the SB. The starting point of the argument is that we are SUPPOSED TO win the SB every year.

Wrong. You are wrong. We blew golden opportunities and you know it. To pass that off as someone thinking we have to win the Super Bowl every year is immature and moronic. We aren't entitled to the Super Bowl, but if we get ourselves in positon to succeed, get the job done.

I think you all should start a thread about how it's OK to choke when you're coach has already won 3 Super Bowl's, because that's the only thing I'm hearing from you guys.

 

[richpats]

The conversation puts me in mind of a story I heard, either here or among my flesh-and-blood friends...

A couple with a young kid were watching the Denver game in 05, and this kid knew nothing except super bowl victories, to his recollection. So when we finally do lose the game, everybody is so bummed out.

The kid knows it's the playoffs and knows it's important but doesn't grasp the "win or go home" nature of things... so he asks "who do we play next week?"

When the parents explain that the year is over for the Pats, the kid says "Why aren't they playing a super bowl this year?"

Not "why aren't the Pats playing it," mind you - the kid thought there was no super bowl, if the Pats' season was over. He was convinced the Pats win the super bowl at the end, and that's how football went. He couldn't grasp a super bowl with no Pats.

Thing is, the kid was like 5 or 6.

PFnV

It must be great to be a Pats fan that doesn't really care if his team wins or loses in the future. I envy you. You are probably all geeked-up about pitchers-and-catchers reporting.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

It must be great to be a Pats fan that doesn't really care if his team wins or loses in the future. I envy you.

Quite the reverse. I care a great deal, which should be evident from my concern for what will happen going forward.

You're the one whose posts give no indication of concern for the future, but are full of vague dread based on having not won three super bowls in the past three years.

I do not, however, envy you.

PFnV

 

[richpats]

Quite the reverse. I care a great deal, which should be evident from my concern for what will happen going forward.

You're the one whose posts give no indication of concern for the future, but are full of vague dread based on having not won three super bowls in the past three years.

I do not, however, envy you.

PFnV

You need time to get over the loss, instead of nit-picking those who dare question Belichick and the coaching staff. The Sox look pretty good this year, that should lift your spirits.

 

[mgteich]

So, the question is what we need to do to improve the team (or even keep the same) and play better in the clutch. To state the obvious.

1) It seems we need more depth at DEFENSIVE BACK. Gay played injured because he was the best we had, even injured. Unless he's injured, Wilson must have cleared his locker by now.

2) We also need depth at LINEBACKER. It was not fun watching Woods out there.

That makes absolutely no sense.
The sum total of coaching in the game that matched up the best 2 teams in the league was that the Patriots game plan, adjustments and coaching put them in a position where THE PLAYERS NEEDED TO DEFEND ONE DRIVE, 83 YARDS OF FIELD IN 2 1/2 MINUTES AND NOT ALLOW A TD.
Thats it.
You simply cannot blame preparation for being in a position where all you have to do is NOT allow a TD in 2 1/2 minutes from 83 yards away, and you fail.
The coaches did not drop Ints. The coaches were not 4 yards off Toomer on the 3rd and 9. The coaches didnt fail to stop the 4th and 1. The coaches didnt bite on Burress' fake inside. The coaches didnt allow Kevin freakin Boss to be open for a 45 yard gain. The coaches didn't not cover Tyree closely or fail to tackle Manning before he escaped. The coaches didnt fail to block defensive players in individual battles on 15 different pass plays.