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Reagan (Ronnie)

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Harry Boy, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    That's too bad I like Ronnie and don't think he was a bigot.

    Off topic but if you ever get a chance to see the Killers which Reagan, Lee Marvin, John Cassavetes and others are in do so. Totally underrated movie and Ronnie was awesome as a villain.
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He made his mistakes like they all do but I thought he was a good president, he did play in some good movies..

    I thought it was comical they way his enemy's hated his funeral.
  4. DarrylS

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    You have a bad memory, when he was president his own party did not even like him towards the end.. when he started chasing butterflies, then they made him into a god...

    Remember these events..

  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I said he made mistakes....

    Look what you've got today--------:rolleyes:
  6. DarrylS

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    Nobody made more than Ronnie.. known as god Ronnie.
  7. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    IDK Darryl ... when Carter started looking good again I figure it is what it is.

    People tend to forget the bad ... then again maybe the bad was not bad at all ... who knows?
  8. Real World

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    Reagan is considered by many to be one of the best presidents of modern history. No president, or person, is without faults. That being said, distorting Reagans legacy shouldn't come as a surprise. Just wait until 10-20+ years from now when they make movie about Obama, and everyone is left wondering if they were alive at the same time all those "awesome" things happened.
  9. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This country is becoming so screwed up that by the time they make a movie about "The Great Messiah Obama" anybody who doesn't go and see the movie will be sent to prison.

    Plans are already being made by MSNBC, ABC,CBS,PBS, NPR and Oprah to have Obama put up on Mt Rushmore.
  10. JackBauer

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    The same Ronaldus Magnus who would be ridden out of today's GOP on a rail?
  11. PatsWSB47

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    Maybe or maybe its this one as reported in the Huffington Post.

    Ronald Reagan Would Beat Obama In Election, Poll Finds

    Ronald Reagan Would Beat Obama In Election, Poll Finds
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's not hard to figure out that Reagan was one of the best, all you have to do is look at the Hatred the left wing has for him.

    Before anybody starts on me, I don't "Hate" Jug Ears it just messes up my mind as to how the hell the people ever elected him in the first place...:confused::confused:
  13. JackBauer

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    Maybe if your party could put up anything other than hot garbage he wouldn't have won...twice.
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well McCain and Romney were certainly garbage, as is their opponent. ;)
  15. JackBauer

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    Honestly I'm rooting for Ted Cruz in 2016. That would be a dream come true.
  16. Real World

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    I love when people say this. While it may certainly be true, the same point could be made about JFK, or even Bill Clinton, and today's democratic party. My point is that neither party is representative of what it used to be. That's not a good thing either.
  17. JackBauer

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    How so?

    And no, Bill Clinton would be fine in today's Democratic party.

    Anyway, the evidence shows (at least in the HoR) that the GOP has shifted much further to the right since Reagan than the Democrats have moved to the left. You could argue the Democratic party has become marginally more liberal (I don't really see it, but whatever), but the rightward shift in the GOP has been markedly more pronounced.
  18. Drewski

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    I was going to say the same RW but figured anyone with two brain cells to rub together would see it as obvious.

    JFK, Clinton, Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt all say Hello
  19. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    Lincoln doesn't really belong on your list, unless you're one of those people who believe the Republicans freed the slaves.

    I don't know where you get off saying Clinton wouldn't be welcomed in today's Democratic party. You realize he spoke at the 2012 convention, right?
  20. Drewski

    Drewski Rookie

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    My point is that Lincoln would be closer to modern day Democrats than he would be modern day Republicans. And Clinton would be closer to center than far left (the direction the party has moved).

    Never said anything about "Welcomed".

    Extrapolating analysis...you need a refresher I think.
  21. Real World

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    [​IMG]

    People who are blindly loyal to one party, or the other, refuse to see the obvious. These are people who think Obama is doing one heck of a job, or that George Bush was Mt. Rushmorian. PressCoverage used to refer to the latter as the "27%'ers" which I always thought was funny. Jack openly admits that he "doesn't really see it", which kinda tells people all they need to know.
  22. JackBauer

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    Nah, I'm just fine, thanks. I'm well aware that if you expand your timeframe to a 150 year window the movements will be much more pronounced.

    When was Clinton ever far left? And I'm curious the evidence you're using to conclude the party has moved toward the far left?
  23. Drewski

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    Wow Jack...

    .....my point is that is he wasn't but that the party has moved that direction

    Ok so no refresher on Extrapolating analysis...how about reading skills?

    EDIT TO ADD: You apparently added to your post as I replied.

    My evidence of the party "moving left" is simply the party's - or at the bare minimum the leaders of it - stated views on issues of our day. Ill grant you "moving left" or "far left" are relative terms; i.e. from my seats (basically a center of the road guy) the party has moved left since the 90s (note not arguing its Communist or anything) but from your POV (left of me) maybe it hasn't.

    Would you argue that Clinton was more or less Liberal than Obama? I choose those two because, as POTUS', they are the leaders of their party.
  24. JackBauer

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    Maybe you should take your own advice. My point was that if Clinton was closer to the center in 1992 how would he be considered a centrist now if the party has moved to the far left?

    Again, I'd really love to see what you're using to justify your claims here.
  25. Drewski

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    My point is that if we look through "2013 glasses" (which I think was RW's original point that I agreed with) , Clinton's 2 terms are closer to centrist/moderate relative to the Current Admin.

    I was 9 in 1992. I cant really argue what he was viewed as then.
  26. JackBauer

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    Well, sure. But the two things are not the same.

    Average Ideology of the House and Senate, 1947 - 2012 | Brookings Institution

    edit: to answer you question, I think Clinton is more of a centrist than Obama...basically your DLC/Blue Dog type Democrat. That being said, I think Obama is far less liberal (particularly on foreign policy) than his critics would have you believe.
  27. Drewski

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    I was just reading the link (below if so inclined, as a numbers guy I found it interesting), which I think hits at the same idea yours does; basically how Congress moves over time. While it doesn't prove or disprove any post of mine, it does speak to the phenomenon we are covering here.

    Hahaha I agree with you Jack. To me, Obama is left of Bill. And Bill would be left of say LBJ or JFK (overall not issue by issue across the board).

    That was my only thought. Not that he wouldn't be welcomed in the party or what have you.

    I also agree on your foreign policy point....I would go so far as to say not much has changed from Shrub (sadly as that is part of the reason why I voted for him in 08')

    http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/29/how-liberal-is-president-obama/?_r=0

    EDIT TO ADD - FTR, it is obvious that the Republican party has moved further right than the Decmocratic party has left....all my posts in the "GOP Civil War" thread made that clear already.

    EDIT TO ADD2 - And with Obama being left of Bill, I am using that as an analog of where the party is now.

    Basically, wherever the POTUS (or candidate) sits is where the party is....ala a more left POTUS = the party has moved left and vise versa.
  28. JackBauer

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    LBJ is an interesting one. On one hand, he helped design and sign into law all of the Great Society legislation. On the other, he was responsible escalating US involvement in Vietnam. Ideologically speaking he's one of the more enigmatic presidents we've had, I'd say.

    I suppose on the whole we're largely in agreement...both of the parties have moved over time, but the Republicans are getting pretty close to uncharted waters at this point, as we've seen in the GOP Civil War thread, the fact that Boehner has little-to-no control over his caucus, and the very real possibility that Mitch McConnell could lose in 2014 (The Senate Conservative Fund, founded by Jim DeMint, is now running ads against Mitch in KY).

    I thought this was kind of an interested article that illustrates some of the problems afflicting contemporary conservatism: http://www.businessinsider.com/conservatism-is-the-problem-2013-6
  29. Drewski

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    To be sure. I think team "Either or FTW"'s heads would explode trying to figure it all out...

    A Democrat schill for the MIC and escalating an unprovoked war....fighting Communists??!?!?!?

    Does...Not....Compute.
  30. Real World

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    All one has to do is take a look at the party's current leadership.

    [​IMG]

    Left, further left, and leftist.

    I think both parties, in general, have moved to their respective extremes in equal fashion. On some issues, like Foreign Policy, they've simply taken the establishment position. Understand that Democrats are not devoid of interventionist FP. Wilson WWI, Roosevelt WWII, Truman Korea, LBJ Vietnam...Heck, another democrat, Jimmy Carter, was the one who got us started in Afghanistan in the late 70's with the implementation of Operation Cyclone. So the idea that an interventionist, or war mongering FP is solely the realm of republicans is misplaced from a historical perspective. My guess is that the relative peace of the post Cold War 90's, reset the reality of what each party has historically been.

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