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reading between the lines....

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Apr 30, 2007.

  1. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #91 Jersey

    ... just a few post draft thoughts now that I have had a chance to absorb the events of this week end.

    1. The fact that we drafted 2 OTs in the 2nd day tells me that the Pats are concerned about the health issues that dogged OCallahan last season, and could be effecting him this off season. It also tells me that rumblings about the Pats not being happy with the development of Nick Kazur could be true. That is the ONLY possibe reason for picking 2 more OTs to a group that already seems to be deep, young, signed, and talented.

    2. I will be very surprised in the Pats have more than 3 players on their roster from the college portion of this draft, when they open the season in Septemeber of 2009

    3. I found it interesting that Mangini traded 2 of his picks to move up and wound up with only 4 picks. It confirms to me that he TOO thought that THIS draft was weak, and they were better off trading picks THIS year to get 2 guys the KNOW will be immediate starters, than draft with their full allotment. Beoli, did it in a different way, choosiing to defer to next year, but the inference is the same.

    4. Based on this draft you can be sure that the Pats WILL sign some Vet ILB before training camp. Seau, Hartwell, Wilson, and the guy SD just cut look like the obvious choices. I'm not sure who it would be, but at least one of them will be wearing the flying Elvis by July.

    5. The more I hear about the Moss deal, the more I like it. I have never been one who thought that Moss would be a cancer in the lockerroom. Its been said over and over that his teammates generally like him. My biggest concerns were the possibilities that his skills have diminished, his dedication to the game, and his huge contract.

    Well it looks like, given his recent and verifiable sub 4.3 time, we don't have to worry much about diminished skills. I feel better about his love for the game after hearing some of the comments I heard after the trade. He know this will be his last shot at redemtion, so his comments made sense. I think this is the best environment he could hope for. IMO, Moss is a follower, not a leader. In the past he was put in positions were he had to lead, and he just isn't good at it. Her he doesn't have to lead and he has a lot of good people to follow here. What I hope I will see come September is Moss catching his first TD pass....and then hand the ball to the Ref, THEN go join his teammates in the celebration. (I know that might be too much to ask for , but I can hope. ;) ). Finally as news of his restructure comes out, it is better than I could hope for.

    BOTTOM LINE, as far as Randy Moss is concerned, all by fears have been addressed...at least for now, and I'm fully on board with this move. I'm sure BB will be pleased when he hears that bit of news One LESS thing to worry about :rolleyes:

    6. The key thing in the Moss deal isn't just that we added HIM, its that we added him along with Stallworth and Welker. Just adding Moss would have improved the WR corps, but added the other guys as well will create severe Match up problems for every DC we face. Stuff that we will go over in future posts, I am sure.

    7. Tom Brady who has gone his entire career with Zero #1 WRs will now have 2 on the field AT THE SAME TIME! It will be an embarrassment of riches. I jsut hope he can adjust to it. ;)

    8. BTW- I thinking about what a true #1 WR was. What the definition would be, and I came up with this. A true #1 WR is WR the opposition bases his defense around. Its a guy who HAS to be doubled in passing situations, and even when he is doubled, be able to make plays. That is why Deion was never really a true #1. You could take him out of games by doubling him. He admitted this himself.

    9.I still maintain that the Pats SHOULD have gotten MORE value, or at least some protection with conditional picks, on the 2 picks they got in next year's draft. However that being said, with 5 picks in the first 100, the Pats will be in great position to restock the larder, especially since we could have a larger number of roster spots open in 2008.

    BTW- I really liked the 2 guys the Jets picked up and if you concider they used one pick to get Thomas, they got 3 sure starters out of this draft (Jones, Revis, Harris). Not bad. I guess the blueprint works.

    10. IMHO if you count just the college players we got in this draft, I would have to grade this draft a D. Like I said, I would be shocked to see more than 3 players in this draft, still be with the Pats just 2 years from now. Most of those picks are almost interchangeable with the UDFA's that will be added before camp. However if you count the additions of Welker, Moss, and the 2 picks next year to the equation the grade goes up to a B/B+

    11. Finally you have to come to a bottom line, and you CANNOT separate the draft from the FA period, since they all go to the job of improving your roster. So I feel confident in saying the following. With FA, the draft, and guys coming off IR, the Pats roster will be significantly more talented than the team that ended the season in INDY. I caution there is still work that needs to be done, especially at ILB, but so far...so good.
     
  2. smg93

    smg93 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #54 Jersey

    I remember reading your other thread where you were talking about your disappointment over what happened in day 1 of the draft. I'm glad you are now linking the work that happened in FA along with the draft to see how the Pats have done to get better from last year.

    Always enjoy your posts though!
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2007
  3. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

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    If you count just the college players we got in this draft, that'd come to a 1st rounder and a bunch of 2nd day prospects in a weak draft. I'd say they did much better than a D.
     
  4. carolinatony

    carolinatony In the Starting Line-Up

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    Great post.
     
  5. hwc

    hwc In the Starting Line-Up

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    Good read. Thanks.

    One alternative hypothesis on the late round O-line picks. Maybe it has nothing to do with the current guys and everything to do with restocking Dante Scharneccia's O-Line University on the practice squad. The Pats are constantly trying to develop players for the O-line.
     
  6. ClevTrev

    ClevTrev Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Great post!

    Some comments & additions:

    1) I believe this team will always draft someone for the OL. Given the history with injuries, this is the only way to keep the rotation fresh. I'm hoping all from last season are healthy, as continuity and consistency in these positions create a winner.

    4) I agree, we should see veteran LB additions by early June.

    5) I originally was against adding Moss, but given the circumstances and the reduced risk, I like this move!

    6&8) I was thinking about how to defend Moss, Stallworth, and Welker. It's going to be fun for Pats fans, as this is tough. Moss demands a double. So, where does that leave Stallworth and Welker. Welker is impossible in single coverage. Good luck! What this does for the TE and running game is incredible!

    9) As for next season, I believe NE orchestrated this thing perfectly. As this draft was thin on quality, they didn't want to sign players having late round value in early rounds. So, they went the FA route and added a good safety who will be an immediate contributor. This was a lesson on team building.

    11) Agreed. See my comments on #9. You have to take the combination of the two, FAs and rookies. I laughed when Mike Mayock of the NFL Network became upset that the Moss acquisition was becoming the "story of the draft" thus taking away the spotlight from "these deserving college players." Ha! Mike, get a life! In the NFL, rookies and veterans play together.
     
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    We should finally see the end of guys like Bob Sanders and Kerry Rhodes playing at the line of scrimmage as extra LB. They can now feel free to move their asses back to the real Safety position to deal with what should be a real passing game. Then Mr. Watson and Mr. Maroney will stop in and say "hi".
     
  8. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Well, there are other reasons. Belioli draft DL and OL heavy all the time, so this isn't really out of the ordinary. In addition, it's not just the possible question marks on the right side that need to be addressed, but the future on the left side. Light is a quality left tackle, but he's not going to play forever, and they do need depth over there as well.



    I think it's pretty obvious that Belioli determined that a better player can be found in free agency than even in the first round, when it comes to a linebacker capable of helping this season. I'd guess that they'll bring in more than one for training camp.



    I know where you're coming from, but I think you're overlooking the obvious: This was a weak draft and pretty much every team knew it. Belichick warned that drop downs weren't likely to net the same kind of value that they'd netted in other years. There were a couple of "steal" type of hauls made in drop downs, but they were isolated cases. Peter King does a good job of breaking down the Dallas/Cleveland moves, for an example of how they went down.
     
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    When we made the trade I thought we should have gotten more than a #4 with SF's #1, although I was fine with the trade as is. Of course, I didn't know that #4 would turn into Moss. But just like selling a house, it's worth what someone will pay for it not what you think you should get for it. I was happy getting what we got and obviously that's the best that was offered. Regardless of how many of us think we should have gotten more.

    I think I'm mostly alone on this but I don't think SF is very good and see 8-8 as the best case scenario for them (worst case for us). I expect them to finish no better than 3rd in their division, behind Seattle and St. Louis, and very possibly below Arizona too.

    Guess the point differential of those teams from last year :

    Settle : -6 (with Hasselbeck and Alexander hurt a lot)
    St. Louis : -14
    Arizona : -75
    SF : -114

    I know they've added some players, but lost Norv Turner, but they have a LONG way to go. This is a top ten pick WAITING to happen.
     
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Oh, one last thing.

    F*ck Tony Romo. F*ck him forever.

    If he catches that damn snap and Dallas beats Seattle in the playoffs, guess which team is sitting there with the #22 pick to trade to Cleveland ? That's right, our New England Patriots.
     
  11. ClevTrev

    ClevTrev Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I thought we should have held out for a 3 from this year (and I have no idea whether SF had one available) and next year's #1.

    That being said, losing Norv hurts the offense, but they had a good draft. Given the value of players from 11 to 20, I would not be disappointed if the SF pick fell in that range. I believe SF is capable of 9-7 next season.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2007
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    :confused:

    Holding out for a better deal only works if the trading partner is willing. What we got may well have been the take it or leave it offer. There's no holding out for better if there's no better offer coming.
     
  13. ClevTrev

    ClevTrev Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Probably a better way to say it would be, I would have preferred a #3 from this year. But, who knows how this really went. If the Pats were looking to stash picks for Moss, as we are now led to believe, the #4 may have been acceptable to NE.
     
  14. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Me too. I said at the time that I thought we should have been able to get a #3 based on normal value - maybe even a #2.

    But as Belichick isn't one to take less than he can get it's reasonable to assume this was the best offer so you have two choices : 1) This Deal or 2) #28. That's it. I'll take #1, thank you very much.

    Now, my research into SF last year and their schedule this year is more advanced than the moment we made the trade and, as I've explained, I like the trade much more now that I've determined that SF sucks :D
     
  15. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #91 Jersey

    WOW I never thought about that. Great pick up. Another reason to hate the Cowboys. What can be better than that. :D
     
  16. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    pat fan ken,

    I read the draft results differently then you do. BB was out of money and merely needed to restock the bottom of the roster and the PS.

    Brandon Merriweather is a safety probably in the class of Wilson; he is Geno insurance and will take Hawks slot as top reserve FS, but probably push a guy like Andrews or Rashad off the roster in a push down stack.

    Marquise Hill has been a disappointment. Le Kevin is the third reserve NT; Both need to look over the shoulders as the Pats probably keep only six on the 53. Santonio may be ready to move up too, and Kareem could take a PS spot as well.

    I think the Pats are happy with the Dante Graduate School for O-linemen, but he was fresh out of students last year. They all graduated. Didn't BB carry two Punters on the PS and then never called them up when the P got hurt not once but twice?

    Sean Bubin retired and he as out of PS years anyways. As was everybody else. So they merely stocked up on Dante's recruits for his school. Here are three PS candidates.

    Tackle: Clint Oldenburg is the TE conversion project at tackle just like Ashworth and Gorin.

    Center: Elgin is the Center student behind the three players they currently have there.

    Guard: The last O lineman taken is the TE/T/G who probably projects to Guard in the pros in a few years. He's the "not good enough" tackle, that moves to G.

    The Pats only have two QBs There is the third string PS candidate QB in Matt Gutierrez who played at Michigan and got benched due to an injury for a "future superstar" named Chad. He was a highly recruited and got hurt just as he was ready to start. He's a Matt Cassel who transfered and played rather than sit.

    Matt is a better built clone 6-4 225 of TB whose style is similar. A "System QB" who goes through his progressions, is not a running QB, but sidesteps well. Has a good but not cannon arm, and is accurate on the short and medium routes with "touch".

    Does that remind you of anyone or two guys on the Pats?

    There is the obligatory DE conversion project who likely can't beat out Woods but will try and maybe take a spot on PS or ST.:cool:



    From all this activity I deduce the plan going forward is to have the Pats sign two situation substitute vets as ILB reserves. A run-stuffer like Jr Seau/Edgar Hartwell/Barry Gardner and a situation substitute coverage LB like Dhani Jones to take Don Davis' position. :D
     
  17. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #91 Jersey

    Interesting that you mention Barry Gardner. I think he is already on the roster, but even if he isn't, it could be that HE is the missing ILB that we are looking for. IIRC, he did a decent job of that with Philly a few years ago.
     
  18. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #3 Jersey

    That may be true, but then, according to reports, the Iggles would have grabbed Meriwether before the Pats would be able to get him at 28.

    So it's not quite as simple--but, of course, you're still free to hate on the Cowboys. :p
     
  19. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Gardner signed a one year contract last year, he's a UFA. I would think we'd be interested in signing him again if he's 100%.
     
  20. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    I was starting to think that if Quinn dropped to 24 we would have drafted him.
     

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