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Re-visiting Jermaine Cunningham/Carlos Dunlap


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Cunningham was the better fit for the defense they had at the time, Dunlap would be a better fit now, but he's still not a great player. I could write a paper on why his 9.5 sack season as a rookie was a fluke.

Couisn I understand your post, but if someone says fit to me another time.......I think adaptability means a lot. As an example, Freeney could not adapt to the 3-4 in Indy. That is what led to his demise.
DW Toys
 
...It's one thing to say BB made a mistake. Then again, do we need 500 different topics about the same mistake? Do we need to re-hash it every 2 months? And there's nothing new to contribute, just the same old same old. I just think there's too much extremism on both sides, but studies show people tend to be more negative than positive.

I think the heart of the issue is that most people have flipped the way learning and opinion making is supposed to work. Instead of getting info first and then forming an opinion, more and more people form an opinion based upon emotion and then look for info to back it up. We see this all the time in politics, where its application is probably most obvious.

I appreciate a well-thought critique of decisions that is based on information. I love posts where I learn stuff, and I have lots and lots to learn which is why I joined this place in the first place. But enough of people telling me the winning lottery numbers the day after the draw and questioning why I didn't pick them and only got one right. :bricks:

1.) Analyzing what's happened/happening/going to happen is what the place is all about, so this sort of thing isn't going away.

2.) The team screwing up the draft for several years in a row is a large part of the reason the defense has been hot garbage in recent seasons, and it's probably a huge part of the reason the team hasn't been able to add more Lombardis to the trophy case. I think it's more than just acceptable to point out the problems. I think it's important that it be done.
 
What a mistake man... I can relate.

This one time someone offered me seven grand for my beat up late 90s sports car (thing was a rustbucket inside with a nice paint job). Shoulda taken the money. Coulda bought two more of the same car if I played my cards right. :bricks:

Seriously! You could have gotten a new car AND a blonde! LOL

So we flubbed on the Cunningham pick. Big whoop. Happens all the time with 2nd rounders and later. I mean do I need to bring up the names Chad Jackson and Brandon Tate? Those guys could have been Jennings and Wallace instead.

At least we are 90% successful on our 1st round picks. Not a lot of teams in the NFL can say that.
 
Couisn I understand your post, but if someone says fit to me another time.......I think adaptability means a lot. As an example, Freeney could not adapt to the 3-4 in Indy. That is what led to his demise.
DW Toys
It matters, but if your choices are a versatile player or a better player for the defense you use at the time, you have to go with the better player. And in the context of this thread, Dunlap hasn't shown any more versatility than Cunningham.
 
He wasn't drafted to play LDE.

The primary reason Brace was drafted was a hedge against Wilfork not re-signing. Obviously they thought he would contribute even if Wilfork came back, but I suspect they were thinking of moving to Wilfork to DE (like we saw with Love at NT at times) if Brace panned out at NT.

I disagree but either way he was drafted for a 3-4 scheme. If we were running a 4-3 would he still have been the pick we don't know.
 
1.) Analyzing what's happened/happening/going to happen is what the place is all about, so this sort of thing isn't going away.

2.) The team screwing up the draft for several years in a row is a large part of the reason the defense has been hot garbage in recent seasons, and it's probably a huge part of the reason the team hasn't been able to add more Lombardis to the trophy case. I think it's more than just acceptable to point out the problems. I think it's important that it be done.

How many times for the same issue is the question.
 
I disagree but either way he was drafted for a 3-4 scheme. If we were running a 4-3 would he still have been the pick we don't know.

He was drafted as a NT in case Wilfork left, and his rookie season he was used at NT (when he actually saw the field). What basis do you have on which to disagree?
 
He was drafted as a NT in case Wilfork left, and his rookie season he was used at NT (when he actually saw the field). What basis do you have on which to disagree?

I disagree that he was drafted to play NT. I believe he was drafted to play LDE in a 3-4 with Warren moving to RDE to replace Seymour. I also disagree that he only played NT his rookie year because he also took snaps at both LDE and RDE.

So unless you have a direct statement from BB I have the same basis to disagree with your assessment that you do for mine.
 
I think the heart of the issue is that most people have flipped the way learning and opinion making is supposed to work. Instead of getting info first and then forming an opinion, more and more people form an opinion based upon emotion and then look for info to back it up. We see this all the time in politics, where its application is probably most obvious.

Shoot first, ask later.

1.) Analyzing what's happened/happening/going to happen is what the place is all about, so this sort of thing isn't going away.

2.) The team screwing up the draft for several years in a row is a large part of the reason the defense has been hot garbage in recent seasons, and it's probably a huge part of the reason the team hasn't been able to add more Lombardis to the trophy case. I think it's more than just acceptable to point out the problems. I think it's important that it be done.

I agree that there was a poor period of drafting which affected the team, but the 2010 draft wasn't part of that period. It may have been one of our best drafts ever.

And with any of these discussions, I'd love to actually see more than just "this guy wasn't the best pick." Is there a common theme between them? Is there perhaps something we're emphasizing that we shouldn't, or perhaps overlooking something? It'd be nice to have some actual insights to it rather than "this guy wasn't the best pick at that spot." I think we all agree that Cunningham wasn't. But neither was Dunlap.

It's also not accurate to project the same results on any team. What one player does in one system doesn't mean they will duplicate it in another. Dunlap might have done more here than Cunningham, but maybe not. There's the argument about systems, but don't forget the scouting report on the guy was that he was inconsistent and he took a lot of plays off. If we would have drafted him, he may not have become what he's become. He could have easily been buried on the bench due to his poor work habits. Or maybe he would have learned how to work and become even better than he is. I don't know. But I don't think it's fair to act as if he was drafted by the Pats, he would have produced the same results.

No process involving the draft will be perfect though, and looking at isolated examples doesn't really help. For every guy like Dunlap who looks lazy on tape and eventually works out, there are a dozen others who never amount to anything. To point at the one success and ignore all the other failures is ridiculous.

Basically, the draft is a bit of a gamble, only with fans expecting the FO to win 100% of the time. It's like poker, where you can win a lot more hands than your opponent by being smart and using good strategies, but nobody wins 100% of the time. All you can do is make sure you are making good decisions along the way. I understand fans obsess over outcome, but we need to look at the actual processes involved. If we continue to make good decisions, then we lessen the odds of luck intervening, but luck still plays a huge part.
 
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