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RBs - dime a dozen

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by cstjohn17, Dec 12, 2011.

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  1. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    The Vereen and Ridley picks made no sense to me in April and make no sense now.

    RBs are a dime a dozen (unless they are elite). The Patriots were thin at RB but could have easily picked 4th or 5th rounders and a few low end free agents.

    These picks cost depth at other positions of need (every position on the defense).
     
  2. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As Belichick said (paraphrasing), if you draft guys who you don't like but fill a need, then you end up having to fill those needs again later. If you draft guys who you think will be good football players, then you'll end up with good football players.

    That said, this past draft was flat out bad. After pick 33, Belichick's next 5 picks were RB, RB, QB, and then two picks traded for a 2nd next year. He obviously didn't see a whole lot else that he liked, or we probably wouldn't have seen him grab that 2nd next year, a QB, or the second RB.
     
  3. SanAngeloState

    SanAngeloState Banned

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    Ironically we could have had roy helu 2 rounds later. Better player cheaper. But I get what you're saying. Total whiff. So heartbreaking. And at the top of the round a glass figurine of a CB. Great. He probably never sees the field again.
     
  4. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I loved the Mallett pick for the value, a QB with top 10 talent that fell because of attitude (he looks happy on the sideline near brady :D ) and being super slow (doesn't really matter). It's much different from taking a 5th round QB talent in round 3 (Kevin O Connell)

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The selection of TWO rbs was so dumb! We use Faulk ABOVE both of them, add to the fact of BJGE/Woody, why did the pats do this?

    I agree 100% with the point RBs are a dime a dozen, if we took two RBs in rounds 4 and say, 7th or undrafted, I would have been fine with it.
     
  5. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    I don't know if taking the RBs was dumb or not, but I do think the way they've utilized (or, more accurately, underutilized them) merits concern.
     
  6. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

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    Both Ridley and Vereen have shown flashes of what they can do in their limited opportunities. They have a couple of things working against them:

    - They play for a passing team with the GOAT at QB
    - They need to gain trust in pass protection to get on the field
    - They didn't have a traditional offseason to develop
    - The incumbent RBs ahead of them have stayed healthy

    As the weather turns, RB play will become more important. I still expect Ridley and Vereen to see meaningful snaps before this season is over. And once BJGE and Faulk move on next year, they step into primary spots (I'm actually a fan of getting players before they are actually needed as starters).

    As for Helu, he was behind Ridley in rushing yards at the midpoint of the season. If Hightower and Torrain were as reliable as BJGE, I'm fairly confident Helu wouldn't have stats worthy of envy. Murray in Dallas was running at a little over 3 ypc before breaking out against the Rams in week 6 or 7. I'm sure everyone would be so understanding with a RB on IR like Leshoure. Or with the results of Alex Green or Bilal Powell.

    The Pats didn't want RBs...they wanted Vereen and Ridley. If the Pats had wanted other players at those draft positions, they could have manipulated the draft to get them and likely still get Vereen and/or Ridley. A little patience might be advised before passing judgement on these guys compared to their peers in this draft class.
     
  7. NePatriots

    NePatriots PatsFans.com Draftnik PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Patriots rookie RB's aren't playing, because THANKFULLY they don't have to. Instead, the Patriots are smart enough to have veteran depth at the position, while being able to bring their RB's along.

    When BJGE and Faulk are gone (could easily lose both after this year), remember what you said about Vereen and Ridley.

    I stuck my neck out for Vereen before the draft, after the draft, and will continue to do so. He will be a player.
     
  8. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree with you. I am glad we are not having to use rookie to pick up the blitz. I am glad that we have a healthy Green-Ellis, Woodhead and Faulk. My only issue is that I would like us to use them more than we do. BTW, if we had more healthy players, one or both of the rookies would be inactive in any game. What a great thing, not needing our rookie depth!

    If we go back, we will see that lots of folks understood that we needed a running back, and they wanted Vereen. It is easy to say that 5th round running backs are worth as much as 2nd rounder, so we should have waited and took someone later. That is simply strange logic. Belichick saw the same need as we did and he chose Vareen. I have no problems with the choice. I would not have had a problem with other running backs.

    We needed TWO young prospects. Neither Faulk or Green-Ellis were signed for 2011. We expected Morris and Taylor to go. Neither is signed for 2012. Ridley looked good when he was used. I am fine with these choices. We had a potential present and a future need. Belichick made two picks and we will no longer worry about the running back position in the 2012 draft for the first time in recent memory.

     
  9. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    They had targeted Vereen and Ridley before the draft - they obviously liked them within the context of the running backs available. You say that the picks cost depth at other positions, well what about the RB position? Didn't we need depth there too?

    Look on the bright side. We're probably not drafting two running backs this year.
     
  10. rabidfireweasel

    rabidfireweasel Practice Squad Player

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    I disagree with this. If you consider the top half of starting running backs in the league, a huge percentage have been drafted in rounds 1-3. It is unusual to have quality backs taken outside of the top three rounds.

    From the top 20 rushers as of today:
    Backs taken in rounds 1-3
    MJD, LeSean McCoy, Frank Gore, Ray Rice. Matt Forte, Marshawn Lynch, Ryan Matthews, Beannie Wells, Willis McGahee, DeMarco Murray, Steven Jackson, Cedric Benson, Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, Shonn Green, Ben Tate and Reggie Bush. (McFadden and Jamal Charles have been injured this year, and Mendenhall has struggled this year.

    Backs taken after round 3 or undrafted:
    Michael Turner, Arian Foster (keep in mind that Tate is averaging 1.6 more yards per carry than Foster), Fred Jackson

    While there certainly are exceptions to the rule- and Helu looks like one- it is rare to get a quality back after round 3.

    RB is a position that usually requires top notch athleticism. There is not a huge learning curve in running the ball. THe curve is only in blitz pick-up. Most guys show that they can run early in their career. Far, far more often than not, if you want a useful NFL back, you have to be prepared to draft him in rounds 1-3. NE may have drafted the wrong guys, but it was no mistake to draft guys in those slots.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  11. rabidfireweasel

    rabidfireweasel Practice Squad Player

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    I would add that we really don't know what we have in our running backs. I don't think that you can call them busts. Rookies without training camp have little opportunity to play in this complex offense that goes no huddle empty set so often.

    It was interesting to see Ridley be split out wide a good bit against Washington.
     
  12. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think we're seeing Law Firm and Woodheads limitations this year. BJGE just doesn't have that explosive burst. He's a short yardage guy. A Sammy Morris. To me a 3rd or 4th back. Same with Woodhead. He's only running from the spread hurry up. Has give up 4-5 sacks in blitz pickup. Just too small.

    I see Vereen being that every down back. Can run. But, can also be used a slot receiver when 5 wide. I thinkk he's going to be a tough matchup in the future for lb's. Ridley will develop into the guy who runs our 4 minute offense to close drives/games out.

    Secondary looked pretty deep after the draft. Even before free-agency. We needed guys to step up and perform. They didn't.
    Now, we have to replace them. If you want to ***** about not addressing the front 7 during the draft. To complain about the secondary not being addressed is 20/20 hindsigh.

    cb D. McCourty(pro-bowler) L. Bodden coming back, K. Arrington, Ras-I Dowling, D. Butler and Wilhite. That's 6.

    S - P. Chung, B. Meriweather, J. Sanders, J. Barrett
     
  13. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #3 Jersey

    Here's hoping we retain Green, who I believe took a big step forward, this year.

    Even so...

    A year from now, Green and WoodHead will be the Depth. :eek:
     
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