RB in round 1?

[sbpatfan]

I don’t know why you’d think that a younger and nastier O-line wouldn’t help immediately, they’d be better able to protect Brady and better able to open up holes for our RBs.

The lines are something of a paradox: they’re at the same time the most vital and least appreciated part of the team, everyone sees the QB throw the pass and the RB charge up the field but it’s the lines that allow those things to happen, look at how Pittsburgh’s offense simply flattened out in the AFC championship against the Jets when Pouncey (whose Arm length is just fine) went down. The line is the first point of contact with the opposition, and their ability ripples through the rest of the guys on the field.

I’m sure Ingram can help this team but think of it like this, all other things being equal, would you invest your money in a stock that averages a 20% return or in one that averages a 7% return? The guys with the bling and rings will chose the 20% every time, and that’s what I want for the team.

I never said that. I think both lines need to be addressed in the draft, hopefully sooner than later. But do you not think improving the RBs wouldn't help out the passing game, Brady's health, etc? We have a decent, young solid group in Green Ellis / Woodhead. Throwing a Ingram, Leshoure, Murray, whatever into that mix along with a good veteran signing or two could push it into one of the better backfields in the league. Even if we got Watt at 17 the general consensus is he still needs to grow / gain strength. And what about Wilkerson? He would probably be a rotational player at best starting out? Pouncey 2 is not Pouncey 1, is he ready to start an entire season? It seems most people think the tackles past the first two top guys would be a reach at 17. We could add a running back that could make an instant impact on a 14-2 team. All I'm trying to say is running back should definitely be a first round / second round consideration depending on how draft day plays out.

 

[meggett]

I never said that. I think both lines need to be addressed in the draft, hopefully sooner than later. But do you not think improving the RBs wouldn't help out the passing game, Brady's health, etc? We have a decent, young solid group in Green Ellis / Woodhead. Throwing a Ingram, Leshoure, Murray, whatever into that mix along with a good veteran signing or two could push it into one of the better backfields in the league. Even if we got Watt at 17 the general consensus is he still needs to grow / gain strength. And what about Wilkerson? He would probably be a rotational player at best starting out? Pouncey 2 is not Pouncey 1, is he ready to start an entire season? It seems most people think the tackles past the first two top guys would be a reach at 17. We could add a running back that could make an instant impact on a 14-2 team. All I'm trying to say is running back should definitely be a first round / second round consideration depending on how draft day plays out.

i agree. with FA being in limbo right now, you have to assume that you have to field your team mainly through the draft. and a RB has the greatest chance to come in and make an impact from day one.

 

[Potstickas]

I don’t know why you’d think that a younger and nastier O-line wouldn’t help immediately, they’d be better able to protect Brady and better able to open up holes for our RBs.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but reading this made me think back a few year when Maroney was struggling to break out. I remember reading a lot of discussions that it was not really maroney's fault that he has not broken out, and that the line was not consistent in opening up holes for him.... I think even BB may have said something to that degree when asked why Maroney is not producing...

However, when BJGE replaced maroney, now I read that it's more the line suddenly opening holes FOR BJGE.

I think it is easier to get a good running game by drafting a RB high than building a line that can open up holes. Not saying that RB is more important than OL, just that you can quickly solve the RB issue with one high (non-bust) pick.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but reading this made me think back a few year when Maroney was struggling to break out. I remember reading a lot of discussions that it was not really maroney's fault that he has not broken out, and that the line was not consistent in opening up holes for him.... I think even BB may have said something to that degree when asked why Maroney is not producing...

However, when BJGE replaced maroney, now I read that it's more the line suddenly opening holes FOR BJGE.

I think it is easier to get a good running game by drafting a RB high than building a line that can open up holes. Not saying that RB is more important than OL, just that you can quickly solve the RB issue with one high (non-bust) pick.

The line with Vollmer did a better overall job of opening holes for the running game than the line with Kaczur. I'm not sure why this would be a surprise or have any sort of agenda implied about it....

 

[Snake Eyes]

I never said that. I think both lines need to be addressed in the draft, hopefully sooner than later. But do you not think improving the RBs wouldn't help out the passing game, Brady's health, etc? We have a decent, young solid group in Green Ellis / Woodhead. Throwing a Ingram, Leshoure, Murray, whatever into that mix along with a good veteran signing or two could push it into one of the better backfields in the league. Even if we got Watt at 17 the general consensus is he still needs to grow / gain strength. And what about Wilkerson? He would probably be a rotational player at best starting out? Pouncey 2 is not Pouncey 1, is he ready to start an entire season? It seems most people think the tackles past the first two top guys would be a reach at 17. We could add a running back that could make an instant impact on a 14-2 team. All I'm trying to say is running back should definitely be a first round / second round consideration depending on how draft day plays out.

These are your words

"Alright, well lets assume Pouncey or Wilkerson help the team more in the long run. Maybe they're the type of guys that can play a high level until their 30s. Well, when they turn 30 Brady won't be here. If we can get 3,4,5 good years out of Ingram why not take him? A guard or defensive end might be a better "investment" but with Brady's age I'm not sure theres a whole lot of time for investing.

By default you're suggesting that Ingram will have a greater impact in the short term than a lineman will.

Yes, a good RB would help the passing game but unless he's Barry Sanders he won't help the team more than beefing up the lines will. A better O-line extends Brady's window more than better running backs.

I think Pouncey, Watkins, and Wilkerson will all be starters from day 1. Pouncey 2 has not had the experience at Center than Pouncey 1 has, which is why I'd use him as a guard for the time being but I think he would do just fine as a guard.

One last thing, and then I'm done with this thread, have you ever heard the expression

THE GAME IS WON AND LOST AT THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE, have you?

Anyway, the guy who said it was right.

 

[meggett]

THE GAME IS WON AND LOST AT THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE:violent:

 

[Snake Eyes]

THE GAME IS WON AND LOST AT THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE:violent:

Thanks for the correction, sometimes I type too quickly for my own good.

 

[CTHuskies]

Well there is logic behind it.
1-BB has drafted a RB in the first round so he isnt shy
2-Its definately a position of need which our first pick is usually used for
3-We paid Fred flippin Taylor $3M a year for 2 years....
4-BB knows Nick Saban
5-Ingram has shown he can carry a load
6-He is coming off a season with a relatively light load
7-More than anyone else in the draft....Ingram helps us WIN first down better than anyone there at 17! Not even close!

Now thats not to say I'd prefer to draft Ingram or that BB does, but if we have a wink-wink deal set up with Light and there isnt a stud DL there at 17 that wont be there at 28....and the drop off between Ingram and the next best RB is so great then I can totally see Ingram at a Patriot. It would surprise me alot less than the McCorty pick! LOL.

No way! Ingram is a good back but he split time with another RB at Bama!

 

[jeffbiologist]

These are your words

"Alright, well lets assume Pouncey or Wilkerson help the team more in the long run. Maybe they're the type of guys that can play a high level until their 30s. Well, when they turn 30 Brady won't be here. If we can get 3,4,5 good years out of Ingram why not take him? A guard or defensive end might be a better "investment" but with Brady's age I'm not sure theres a whole lot of time for investing.

By default you're suggesting that Ingram will have a greater impact in the short term than a lineman will.

Yes, a good RB would help the passing game but unless he's Barry Sanders he won't help the team more than beefing up the lines will. A better O-line extends Brady's window more than better running backs.

I think Pouncey, Watkins, and Wilkerson will all be starters from day 1. Pouncey 2 has not had the experience at Center than Pouncey 1 has, which is why I'd use him as a guard for the time being but I think he would do just fine as a guard.

One last thing, and then I'm done with this thread, have you ever heard the expression

THE GAME IS WON AND LOST AT THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE, have you?

Anyway, the guy who said it was right.

I think it totally reasonable to suggest that if Ingram can gouge yards that BJGE couldnt and that it would help the passing game. Sanders was awesome because he could out manuvere the defense, Ingram will simply break more tackles that BJGE. Next you assume 3 new starters.....I gotta say Dante is my man, and I think Ornberger with 2+ years of tuteledge has got to be better than pretty much any rookie not taken in the first round. Neal will be back, and Connolly played reasonably well and more games than any other G last year. I agree we do need some OL help in the draft, I like Boling or Moffitt. Wilkerson starts over who? He is rotational at best til he understands the BB defense as pretty much all rookies are. We now have Stroud, Warren, Wilfork as our front.....I agree drafting a guy is important, but if BB doesnt think it important enough to trade up from 28 then neither do I. This is all likely for not because Miami is poised to take Ingram at #15....but stranger things have happened.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Ack please no. There should be a rule for the Patriots along the lines of No-First-Round-RBs and it should be filed with the No-first-round-TEs and No-WRs-from-Florida. Actually never draft another WR in the early rounds.

When was the last time the Patriots drafted an impact RB? Curtis Martin in 1995? Sam Cunningham in 73?

When was the last time the Patriots drafted an impact WR? Terry Glenn in 1996? Irving Fryar?

How about the WR busts? This is a long list headed by Chad Jackson. Also don't forget Tony Simmons and Bethel Johnson.

No that Patriots should stick to what they do best; draft for defense and OL.

 

[sbpatfan]

These are your words

"Alright, well lets assume Pouncey or Wilkerson help the team more in the long run. Maybe they're the type of guys that can play a high level until their 30s. Well, when they turn 30 Brady won't be here. If we can get 3,4,5 good years out of Ingram why not take him? A guard or defensive end might be a better "investment" but with Brady's age I'm not sure theres a whole lot of time for investing.

By default you're suggesting that Ingram will have a greater impact in the short term than a lineman will.

Yes, a good RB would help the passing game but unless he's Barry Sanders he won't help the team more than beefing up the lines will. A better O-line extends Brady's window more than better running backs.

I think Pouncey, Watkins, and Wilkerson will all be starters from day 1. Pouncey 2 has not had the experience at Center than Pouncey 1 has, which is why I'd use him as a guard for the time being but I think he would do just fine as a guard.

One last thing, and then I'm done with this thread, have you ever heard the expression

THE GAME IS WON AND LOST AT THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE, have you?

Anyway, the guy who said it was right.

And what's wrong with that statement? It's pretty reasonable to assume a first round running back is going to impact a team much faster than a mid to late round OL / DL. When was the last time a 1st rounder at RB had to sit the bench for a year to learn? We've seen plenty of incredibly talented lineman sit in the wings or start slow. I completely agree that a lineman is the better long term choice, but Brady isn't 26 anymore.

Also, when this time of year rolls around people completely pimp college prospects. The fact of the matter is very few make impacts their rookie year. If theres an offensive lineman on the board that can start from day one and drastically improve the line, I'm all for ite. But if not, it might be a really good idea to consider one of the better backs if they're around. Especially in the Patriots situation.

It's just something to consider, people shun the idea of selecting a running back.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

As a reminder, we won 2 Super Bowls with Antowain Smith.

I'm all for adding some depth to the RB spot, just not with a 1st round pick.

 

[Deus Irae]

As a reminder, we won 2 Super Bowls with Antowain Smith.

I'm all for adding some depth to the RB spot, just not with a 1st round pick.

The Ravens won a SB with Trent Dilfer. The Patriots need to get rid of Brady, immediately.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

The Ravens won a SB with Trent Dilfer. The Patriots need to get rid of Brady, immediately.

I still can't believe that happened.

 

[Snake Eyes]

The Ravens won a SB with Trent Dilfer. The Patriots need to get rid of Brady, immediately.

Smith was a solid back, Dilfer stunk and was cut soon afterwards.

 

[Deus Irae]

Smith was a solid back, Dilfer stunk and was cut soon afterwards.

So we should definitely get rid of Brady. If a guy like Dilfer can win, after all...

 

[Off The Grid]

As a reminder, we won 2 Super Bowls with Antowain Smith.

I'm all for adding some depth to the RB spot, just not with a 1st round pick.

Check...MATE!! :rocker:

 

[IllegalContact]

I have shifted my princples back to what they were a few years ago......

outside of QB, the trenches are absolutely the most important part of the team.......the biggest example of this is the fact that the pats got to the AFCC in 2006......at that point, both the OL and the DL were relatively young, and pretty physical. If you have a top QB and a killer DL and OL, you'll be in the hunt come january, and nobody's going to push you around.

I would have no problem with going all OL/DL with the first 4 picks.......there's plenty of youth on every other unit.

I would also consider bringing back daniel graham to duke it out against crumpler for the 3rd TE.......the last time the pats OL was considered tough was when he was here. he's perfect for knocking OLB's around.

 

[Snake Eyes]

So we should definitely get rid of Brady. If a guy like Dilfer can win, after all...

Yeah, and some people can drive a car steering with their feet but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Get real.

 

[DaBruinz]

Alright, well lets assume Pouncey or Wilkerson help the team more in the long run. Maybe they're the type of guys that can play a high level until their 30s. Well, when they turn 30 Brady won't be here. If we can get 3,4,5 good years out of Ingram why not take him? A guard or defensive end might be a better "investment" but with Brady's age I'm not sure theres a whole lot of time for investing.

I'm not saying we should draft Ingram or Leshoure, but if the Patriots feel they can make a considerable impact to the team, then why not? I want the lines addressed too, but we have a ton of picks. A running back could sneak in there. I personally want Watt even if it requires trading up.

Because adding Ingram won't improve the team enough with the other holes on the offense. Particularly the offensive line with Neal retiring and Kaczur supposedly about to be cut.