PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Ray Lewis's premature 4th down celebration


Status
Not open for further replies.
If you can't tell, I don't think much of Ray Lewis. Absolutely amazing football player, and the negatives that his 'leadership' brings were worth it at one time, but he's not that player anymore. He's still very, very good, but he's also a large part of the reason why the Ravens are consistently undisciplined.

You don't follow the Ravens, so I'm not going to fault you, but you're completely and totally off in that statement; Ray Lewis is the reason for Baltimore's success.

Ray isn't very smart, he has a giant and annoying ego, and he lied to the police about a murder, but when it comes to his contributions on the football field through physical play and intangibles, he is priceless.

I do agree that Ray shouldn't be faulted for scorers giving him credit, though.
 
Last edited:
You don't follow the Ravens, so I'm not going to fault you, but you're completely and totally off in that statement; Ray Lewis is the reason for Baltimore's success.

Ray isn't very smart, he has a giant and annoying ego, and he lied to the police about a murder, but when it comes to his contributions on the football field through physical play and intangibles, he is priceless.

I do agree that Ray shouldn't be faulted for scorers giving him credit, though.

I agree with everything except for this part. Ray Lewis is one of the smartest football players in the NFL. Nobody can read a QB like Ray and that's why he is a future HoFer. The fire and passion he brings onto the field can only be matched by Brian Dawkins and he motivates that Defense.
 
So what do you think he does exceptionally well THIS season? He isn't a liability. I'm just not sure how much of an asset he is beyond the replacements that are available year-to-year.

Besides leading a high ranking defense in tackles?

Besides reviewing so much tape that he can drop a player like Sproles four yards deep in his backfield on the game-deciding play?

Besides motivating the entire team?

Besides hitting every gap that his linemen provide?
 
I agree with everything except for this part. Ray Lewis is one of the smartest football players in the NFL. Nobody can read a QB like Ray and that's why he is a future HoFer. The fire and passion he brings onto the field can only be matched by Brian Dawkins and he motivates that Defense.

I didn't mean football smarts.
 
Last edited:
Besides leading a high ranking defense in tackles?

Can't use number of tackles unless you can find 7 unassisted tackles by him in the Pats game.

Besides reviewing so much tape that he can drop a player like Sproles four yards deep in his backfield on the game-deciding play?

Great play by him. So how many hours of tape did it take for him to realize that being in the backfield on 4th down is a good thing? And I assume all this book learnin' will translate into a similar play soon?

Besides motivating the entire team?

That is a cheerleader. Or mascot I guess. Can you explain why the Ravens surrounded Ray Ray with unmotivated players?

Besides hitting every gap that his linemen provide?

Hitting them with what? Silly noises?

That is all you've got? He gets lots of tackles on the stat sheet (most of which are imaginary), watches lots of tape (I'll take your word for it), motivates his team (like the scary Raven on the scoreboard) and hits gaps (though not resulting in solo tackles or QB pressure).

Let me help you a little. Here are some skills a linebacker might possess:
  • Rushing the passer
  • Covering backs/TEs/slot receivers
  • Stout against the run

Ray Ray was an all-pro at all of these at one point in time. Which of these, or others that you can actually see on the field, does he excel at NOW?
 
Ray Ray? Oh yeah, very smart. Has smart written all over his face-


FB-BAL-Lewis.jpg
 
  • Rushing the passer
  • Covering backs/TEs/slot receivers
  • Stout against the run


-Ray is absolutely great at rushing the passer as he, like I said, hits every gap that his linemen create which, logically, results in hits on the quarterback.
-His role isn't, and hasn't ever been to cover backs/TEs/slot recievers.
-He is stout against the run as is evidenced by his takedown of RBs on game deciding-plays, and role as leader of the team in tackles even at his mature age. Like I said.

How can we have a debate about Ray Lewis' skills when you a) don't watch the Ravens and b) disregard statistics?
 
-Ray is absolutely great at rushing the passer as he, like I said, hits every gap that his linemen create which, logically, results in hits on the quarterback.
-His role isn't, and hasn't ever been to cover backs/TEs/slot recievers.
-He is stout against the run as is evidenced by his takedown of RBs on game deciding-plays, and role as leader of the team in tackles even at his mature age. Like I said.

How can we have a debate about Ray Lewis' skills when you a) don't watch the Ravens and b) disregard statistics?

Sorry, but gotta fail you on this one.

- Ray Ray is certainly not great at rushing the passer. No sacks, few QB hits. Given how often the Ravens blitz and the other front 7 talent, this is even worse than you might think.

- Ray Ray most certainly does have responsibilities in coverage. He just doesn't make plays in coverage any more. Unlike your contention, he was excellent in coverage as recently as 3-4 years ago.

- Ray Ray is still solid against the run, but no way near great. Still has top notch instincts (the Sproles play you continue to mention like it happened several times), but he is generally a day late and a dollar short...resulting in his generous assists total.

If you are going to hang your hat on statistics, you have to:
a) Include the lack of sacks, QB hits, passes defensed, etc.
b) Account for the massive difference between his tackle statistics and reality. Seriously, you can not find 7 solo tackles in the Pats game. Not his fault, but his tackle statistics are a joke.

I have seen quite a few Ravens games (they are my local AFC team unfortunately) and generally attend 1-2 a year (brother-in-law has season tickets). Ray Ray is still a contributor at age 34, which is outstanding in my book. Just can't call him great and maintain any football credibility.
 
-Ray is absolutely great at rushing the passer as he, like I said, hits every gap that his linemen create which, logically, results in hits on the quarterback.
-His role isn't, and hasn't ever been to cover backs/TEs/slot recievers.
-He is stout against the run as is evidenced by his takedown of RBs on game deciding-plays, and role as leader of the team in tackles even at his mature age. Like I said.

How can we have a debate about Ray Lewis' skills when you a) don't watch the Ravens and b) disregard statistics?

Using a combination of my personal insights and stats from ProFootballFocus here (although I always take PFF with a grain of salt- its statistics produce some pretty whacky results from time to time that make it clear that they still have major kinks to iron out).

Re: Rushing the Passer:
For an ILB, he is very good at rushing the passer. There aren't a whole lot of 3-4 ILBs in the NFL, so these rankings should be taken with a grain of salt, but he was tied for fourth in sacks for 3-4 ILBs in 2008, and was #1 in QB hits. Didn't get very many pressures, but on the whole you'd gladly take that from your ILB.

Either way, ILB pass-rushing stats usually have as much to do with scheme as they do with player talent, since very few ILBs are consistently rushing the passer. Hence why only one had more than 5 sacks (Bradie James). Frankly, I think that even those rankings are more a product of Rex Ryan than anything, hence David Harris leading 3-4 ILBs in sacks and QB hits through 3 weeks of 2009. Ryan blitzes the ILB a lot, but it's hard to fault to Lewis for that. No matter how you look at it, he's shown that he can rush the passer very capably.

His role/versatility:
In the Pats' traditional 3-4 defense, LBs have to be much more versatile than they have to be in most, which is probably why some Pats fans perceive that as a must, and see it as a shortcoming if a guy can't do it. Obviously, Lewis is not in the Pats' defense, so whatever shortcomings he may or may not have don't matter so much. Also, the stats don't exactly support that that is a weakness in the first place. In 2008, he was statistically very good against the pass, although that's definitely a stat that requires context. FWIW, those same stats say that he's been pretty bad against the pass so far in 2009 (even without the Pats game).

Against the run:
He clearly isn't as good as he once was, when it was standard for him to be assigned two gaps on the same play, and he still just didn't allow positive plays, end of story. That was freakish, though, and there's no shame in going from freakish to very good. For a baseball analogy, it's sorta like how Manny simply can't hit sliders down and away anymore. He no longer has the physical tools to do it, and doesn't even practice it- he's just acknowledged that if a pitcher can place that pitch, then he's striking out. He's still a very good hitter, though, and most guys could never have hit that pitch even in their primes, so it's hard to fault him for it. Not as good as he once was, clearly on the decline, still one of the best: just like Lewis in 2008. Whether or not that's carrying over into 2009 is an interesting question that maybe you can shed some more light on.

My outlook:
I still don't trust many advanced defensive statistics in the NFL. There's too much that they don't account for- far more than offensive statistics, even. I think they're a great starting point, but further insight requires watching a lot of a player. So when the 2009 statistics say that Ray Lewis is playing as a league-average ILB, I don't buy them necessarily. Small sample size, for starters, plus they don't tell everything. You've obviously watched way more of Ray Lewis, so you have that, but OTOH your analysis shows a pretty clear bias, which is understandable.

What I do think defensive statistics are good for, at least, is challenging perceptions. Defensive players, I think, have a tendency to get by on reputation for years at a time. Prior to 2008, I thought that Lewis' reputation as a super pass rusher was ridiculous, and the stats supported that: 2 sacks, 0 pressures, 0 QB hits. In Lewis' case, the stats are going to challenge two perceptions: 1) that he's horribly overrated, and 2) that he's still great. He's neither- he's a top 6-or-7 ILB among 3-4 teams in the NFL (which is still the distinct minority of teams, so he doesn't have a lot of competition either).

In this case, I think the stats are right on for 2008, and I'm anticipating a major 2009 decline that's already been extremely evident through the first quarter of the season. He's 34, has absorbed a beating throughout his career, is asked to take on guards on every play, and was playing for a new contract last year. A contract, btw, that no other team wanted to give him. Given the lack of FA interest in him, I think it was pretty clear how the rest of the league, right or wrong, viewed him. Even Rex Ryan, who was literally waiting in Bart Scott's driveway at midnight on the day that FA opened, had no real interest in Lewis.

In fact, if I'm a Ravens fan, there are two things that I'm really worried about from Sunday. One is my team's poise. Even if they were screwed as badly as they think they were, their reaction was still the wrong one. Say that the league favors the Pats if you want, but we've been screwed worse. There was a pass interference call against Hobbs in the 2006 AFCCG that basically won the game for Indy, and was so egregiously bad that the league issued a letter of apology for it. Yet the Pats still refused to blame anyone but themselves. That's how accountable, disciplined teams conduct themselves, and it's a trait that every SB-winning team since 2001 has shared. If you don't think that's a problem, then that's that, but FWIW I think that it's huge.

The other thing that I'm worried about is Ray Lewis. Not just because that manic, frenetic, ultimately undisciplined culture starts with him, but because the Pats went after him. From my observations, it certainly looked like they were targeting him, and he was flustered by it. On Brady's rushing TD, in particular, he plowed right over Lewis. Well before that play, I was already remarking that we seemed to be running it at Lewis. And the real reason why this is a problem is because the rest of the league is notorious for replicating the Pats' gameplans. There was a stat a year or two ago that broke down teams' winning percentages before they played the Pats vs. after, and the discrepancy was startling. Belichick identifies teams' weaknesses, and they get exploited for the rest of the season, and as I see it the defensive liability that Belichick targeted was Ray Lewis. I could definitely be wrong, but I'll be interested to see if he continues to get picked on.
 
Last edited:
Using a combination of my personal insights and stats from ProFootballFocus here (although I always take PFF with a grain of salt- its statistics produce some pretty whacky results from time to time that make it clear that they still have major kinks to iron out).

Re: Rushing the Passer:
For an ILB, he is very good at rushing the passer. There aren't a whole lot of 3-4 ILBs in the NFL, so these rankings should be taken with a grain of salt, but he was tied for fourth in sacks for 3-4 ILBs in 2008, and was #1 in QB hits. Didn't get very many pressures, but on the whole you'd gladly take that from your ILB.

Either way, ILB pass-rushing stats usually have as much to do with scheme as they do with player talent, since very few ILBs are consistently rushing the passer. Hence why only one had more than 5 sacks (Bradie James). Frankly, I think that even those rankings are more a product of Rex Ryan than anything, hence David Harris leading 3-4 ILBs in sacks and QB hits through 3 weeks of 2009. Ryan blitzes the ILB a lot, but it's hard to fault to Lewis for that. No matter how you look at it, he's shown that he can rush the passer very capably.

His role/versatility:
In the Pats' traditional 3-4 defense, LBs have to be much more versatile than they have to be in most, which is probably why some Pats fans perceive that as a must, and see it as a shortcoming if a guy can't do it. Obviously, Lewis is not in the Pats' defense, so whatever shortcomings he may or may not have don't matter so much. Also, the stats don't exactly support that that is a weakness in the first place. In 2008, he was statistically very good against the pass, although that's definitely a stat that requires context. FWIW, those same stats say that he's been pretty bad against the pass so far in 2009 (even without the Pats game).

Against the run:
He clearly isn't as good as he once was, when it was standard for him to be assigned two gaps on the same play, and he still just didn't allow positive plays, end of story. That was freakish, though, and there's no shame in going from freakish to very good. For a baseball analogy, it's sorta like how Manny simply can't hit sliders down and away anymore. He no longer has the physical tools to do it, and doesn't even practice it- he's just acknowledged that if a pitcher can place that pitch, then he's striking out. He's still a very good hitter, though, and most guys could never have hit that pitch even in their primes, so it's hard to fault him for it. Not as good as he once was, clearly on the decline, still one of the best: just like Lewis in 2008. Whether or not that's carrying over into 2009 is an interesting question that maybe you can shed some more light on.

My outlook:
I still don't trust many advanced defensive statistics in the NFL. There's too much that they don't account for- far more than offensive statistics, even. I think they're a great starting point, but further insight requires watching a lot of a player. So when the 2009 statistics say that Ray Lewis is playing as a league-average ILB, I don't buy them necessarily. Small sample size, for starters, plus they don't tell everything. You've obviously watched way more of Ray Lewis, so you have that, but OTOH your analysis shows a pretty clear bias, which is understandable.

What I do think defensive statistics are good for, at least, is challenging perceptions. Defensive players, I think, have a tendency to get by on reputation for years at a time. Prior to 2008, I thought that Lewis' reputation as a super pass rusher was ridiculous, and the stats supported that: 2 sacks, 0 pressures, 0 QB hits. In Lewis' case, the stats are going to challenge two perceptions: 1) that he's horribly overrated, and 2) that he's still great. He's neither- he's a top 6-or-7 ILB among 3-4 teams in the NFL (which is still the distinct minority of teams, so he doesn't have a lot of competition either).

In this case, I think the stats are right on for 2008, and I'm anticipating a major 2009 decline that's already been extremely evident through the first quarter of the season. He's 34, has absorbed a beating throughout his career, is asked to take on guards on every play, and was playing for a new contract last year. A contract, btw, that no other team wanted to give him. Given the lack of FA interest in him, I think it was pretty clear how the rest of the league, right or wrong, viewed him. Even Rex Ryan, who was literally waiting in Bart Scott's driveway at midnight on the day that FA opened, had no real interest in Lewis.

In fact, if I'm a Ravens fan, there are two things that I'm really worried about from Sunday. One is my team's poise. Even if they were screwed as badly as they think they were, their reaction was still the wrong one. Say that the league favors the Pats if you want, but we've been screwed worse. There was a pass interference call against Hobbs in the 2006 AFCCG that basically won the game for Indy, and was so egregiously bad that the league issued a letter of apology for it. Yet the Pats still refused to blame anyone but themselves. That's how accountable, disciplined teams conduct themselves, and it's a trait that every SB-winning team since 2001 has shared. If you don't think that's a problem, then that's that, but FWIW I think that it's huge.

The other thing that I'm worried about is Ray Lewis. Not just because that manic, frenetic, ultimately undisciplined culture starts with him, but because the Pats went after him. From my observations, it certainly looked like they were targeting him, and he was flustered by it. On Brady's rushing TD, in particular, he plowed right over Lewis. Well before that play, I was already remarking that we seemed to be running it at Lewis. And the real reason why this is a problem is because the rest of the league is notorious for replicating the Pats' gameplans. There was a stat a year or two ago that broke down teams' winning percentages before they played the Pats vs. after, and the discrepancy was startling. Belichick identifies teams' weaknesses, and they get exploited for the rest of the season, and as I see it the defensive liability that Belichick targeted was Ray Lewis. I could definitely be wrong, but I'll be interested to see if he continues to get picked on.

Haha.. I've put less effort into college papers.
 
I have to visit the supermarket right now, but I'll start that novel :D when I return.
 
Re: Rushing the Passer:
For an ILB, he is very good at rushing the passer.

No matter how you look at it, he's shown that he can rush the passer very capably.

So for what he is asked to do, Ray Lewis excels.

His role/versatility:
In 2008, he was statistically very good against the pass, although that's definitely a stat that requires context. FWIW, those same stats say that he's been pretty bad against the pass so far in 2009 (even without the Pats game).
So in 2008 over the course of a full season, he was good. I don't think we can judge 2009 yet considering that we're four games in.

Against the run:
Not as good as he once was, clearly on the decline, still one of the best: just like Lewis in 2008. Whether or not that's carrying over into 2009 is an interesting question that maybe you can shed some more light on.

So Ray went from being historically good, to just very good on a relative level.

Maybe this is just me as a Ravens fan, but I'm not going to buy into Ray "declining" until I see it over an extended period of time.

Ray is reportedly in his best physical shape ever having lost something like 10/15 pounds, he still studies probably more than anyone else in the league, and it's not like he fell off last season either.

My outlook:
Prior to 2008, I thought that Lewis' reputation as a super pass rusher was ridiculous, and the stats supported that: 2 sacks, 0 pressures, 0 QB hits. In Lewis' case, the stats are going to challenge two perceptions: 1) that he's horribly overrated, and 2) that he's still great. He's neither- he's a top 6-or-7 ILB among 3-4 teams in the NFL (which is still the distinct minority of teams, so he doesn't have a lot of competition either).

Lewis was never reputed to be mostly a "super pass rusher" in Baltimore. Ray has always been known as an all-around player, and you're only dispelling the purely-arbitrary stereotypes that you have personally heard.

The bottom line is that he is still very good, no?

In this case, I think the stats are right on for 2008, and I'm anticipating a major 2009 decline that's already been extremely evident through the first quarter of the season.
If you want to project 2009 based on four games, then I simply can't agree.

He's 34, has absorbed a beating throughout his career, is asked to take on guards on every play, and was playing for a new contract last year. A contract, btw, that no other team wanted to give him. Given the lack of FA interest in him, I think it was pretty clear how the rest of the league, right or wrong, viewed him. Even Rex Ryan, who was literally waiting in Bart Scott's driveway at midnight on the day that FA opened, had no real interest in Lewis.

I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean as you've mostly concluded that Ray was very good last year?

The problem Ray had on the market is that he is worth exponentially more to the Ravens than he would be to the other potential suitors as he is possibly the most valuable player in the league in terms of intangibles, which is a point that you overlooked. If Ray had gone to Dallas, though, I doubt his intangibles would have been as warmly accepted.

Disregard "off-the-field" pluses if you wish, but having a true leader is invaluable. Ray Lewis has run the Ravens, and any success, or failures, that Baltimore has had can largely be attributed to Ray.

In fact, if I'm a Ravens fan, there are two things that I'm really worried about from Sunday. One is my team's poise.

The Ravens have been like this for a full decade, and they're arguably a top five franchise over that period.

New England fans have collectively reached the conclusion that the Ravens' "passion" will be their ultimate downfall, which doesn't mean much to me as Baltimore has had this attitude for a full ten years.
 
So for what he is asked to do, Ray Lewis excels.


So in 2008 over the course of a full season, he was good. I don't think we can judge 2009 yet considering that we're four games in.



So Ray went from being historically good, to just very good on a relative level.

Maybe this is just me as a Ravens fan, but I'm not going to buy into Ray "declining" until I see it over an extended period of time.

Ok, well wait four more games and you'll have a full half-season.

Fact: prior to 2008, Lewis was in pretty steep decline. He ratcheted it up for his contract year--which I'm not criticizing, every player in the leagues does the same, pretty much--and now he has his new contract and he's a year older. When players lose it, they lose it suddenly, and the Pats successfully ran right at Lewis on Sunday, in his fourth consecutive unremarkable game to start the season.

Ray is reportedly in his best physical shape ever having lost something like 10/15 pounds, he still studies probably more than anyone else in the league, and it's not like he fell off last season either.

More than anyone else in the league? Really? Going to go ahead and say no way on that.

Lewis was never reputed to be mostly a "super pass rusher" in Baltimore. Ray has always been known as an all-around player, and you're only dispelling the purely-arbitrary stereotypes that you have personally heard.

Just a few posts ago, you said he was "absolutely great" at rushing the passer. Now you're just contradicting yourself

The bottom line is that he is still very good, no?

Yes, he's still a significantly above-average ILB in the NFL.

The problem Ray had on the market is that he is worth exponentially more to the Ravens than he would be to the other potential suitors as he is possibly the most valuable player in the league in terms of intangibles, which is a point that you overlooked. If Ray had gone to Dallas, though, I doubt his intangibles would have been as warmly accepted.

Really? So Rex Ryan, who's been desperately trying to turn the Jets into the Ravens 2.0, couldn't have used Lewis? And even that misses the core point, which is that, on the whole, I'm completely unconvinced that Lewis' intangibles are even a net positive.

Disregard "off-the-field" pluses if you wish, but having a true leader is invaluable. Ray Lewis has run the Ravens, and any success, or failures, that Baltimore has had can largely be attributed to Ray.

Baltimore's successes can't be contributed to Lewis? Interesting statement, considering the point that you're trying to make.

The Ravens have been like this for a full decade, and they're arguably a top five franchise over that period.

There are a lot of reasons why the Ravens have been a very good franchise for going on a decade. Reason #1 is Ozzie Newsome, who drafts well enough that the Ravens consistently have 3-4 home-grown all-pro talents lining up on defense. And still, since 2000, I've noticed the Ravens consistently coming up small in big moments and big games. They suck at handling adversity. They've played the Pats twice in the last two years, and they've snatched defeat from the jaws of victory both times. Championship teams do the opposite.

New England fans have collectively reached the conclusion that the Ravens' "passion" will be their ultimate downfall, which doesn't mean much to me as Baltimore has had this attitude for a full ten years.

There's a difference between passion and lack of discipline. The Steelers and Giants are great examples of teams that have passion and discipline. And that's not a compliment that I enjoy giving, since the Steelers and the Jets are my two least favorite teams in the NFL. The Titans were the same last year- they were ferocious and proud, they hit hard, they had attitude, but they didn't commit dumb penalties and they didn't lose their composure. The Pats' SB-winning defenses were the same way, and they're on their way back to that this year, as you saw on Sunday.

Passion's great- every team needs it. Any defense that isn't passionate about stopping the opponent is going to get steamrolled. But when that interferes with playing smart, disciplined football, your team's going to come up short. End of story.
 
Last edited:
The Ravens have been like this for a full decade, and they're arguably a top five franchise over that period.
I love how you completely avoided the issue raised by BradyFTW about how we clearly targeted Lewis:

"The other thing that I'm worried about is Ray Lewis. Not just because that manic, frenetic, ultimately undisciplined culture starts with him, but because the Pats went after him. From my observations, it certainly looked like they were targeting him, and he was flustered by it. On Brady's rushing TD, in particular, he plowed right over Lewis. Well before that play, I was already remarking that we seemed to be running it at Lewis. And the real reason why this is a problem is because the rest of the league is notorious for replicating the Pats' gameplans ... and as I see it, the defensive liability that Belichick targeted was Ray Lewis. I could definitely be wrong, but I'll be interested to see if he continues to get picked on."

I somewhat disagree with BradyFTW concerning the Brady TD run... it looked like Lewis got there a bit too late and did manage to get Brady's head and shoulders turned parallel to the endzone. I didn't see Lewis getting plowed over like others have.

However, he was clearly be run at all game and several running plays blew through him like he was not even there, or simply dragged him for several more yards.

I think he had a pretty bad game overall and it will be interesting to see if other teams target him or if he just had a bad game and rebounds.
 
Last edited:
However, he was clearly be run at all game and several running plays blew through him like he was not even there, or simply dragged him for several more yards.

I think he had a pretty bad game overall and it will be interesting to see if other teams target him or if he just had a bad game and rebounds.

Not sure why this is so controversial. Ray Ray is 34 years old and has been knocking heads for a decade. He has the same knowledge and instincts, but his legs don't translate that into big plays as often as they used to.

The Pats lived through the exact same thing with Bruschi over the last couple of years. His big play ability nearly disappeared but his experience and steady leadership kept him on the field.

Ray Ray is what he is. A solid contributor and emotional leader (for better or worse) on a great defense. Given his age, All Pro past and championship ring, not sure why this isn't enough.
 
Last edited:
that manic, frenetic, ultimately undisciplined culture starts with him,

Sorry to pick out just one phrase from your post (which I enjoyed) BradyFTW, but this is something I can't stop wondering about. Especially given Lewis' lack of awareness on this play, the subsequent Ravens loss in this close game and the general emotionally berserk approach to leadership evidenced by Ray's public persona.

So, I went to NFL.com to see what the Ravens record would be in close games during the Ray Lewis era, because I expected that undisciplined teams will lose close games more frequently than they lose games that are not close.

I included regular season and playoff games from 1996-2008. I also did this fast, in a spreadsheet with much cutting and pasting, formulas and arithmetic - all of which could be f'd up.

Ravens played in a total of 219 games in this sample and won 114 of them for a winning % of 52%. When the final score was close, the winning percent was lower, 43%.

Close games were measured in 2 ways.
- games decided by less than 7 points
- games decided by less than 3 points.
In both cases the Raven's winning % dropped to 43% in what is defined in this test to be "close games".

Whether or not the result here is attributable to a lack of discipline or something else, who knows?

But, when I see Ray Ray not knowing down and distance along with the level of emotion he poured into that post game tirade, It makes me wonder if an over emphasis on emotional motivation to supplement productivty has a downside.
 

Attachments

  • BAL.bmp
    15.1 KB · Views: 43
Yeaahhh!!!! Woooooo!!!!!

It was 4th and 1 and we gave up 2 yards!!!!!!!!

Let's get amped up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the best laugh today, man! :D

And if he didn't know it was 4th down, then he is too stupid and unfocused to call himself a professional. Everybody in that stadium with working neurons knew it was 4th down.

Man, I was HOWLING with laughter!
Priceless!
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.


Patriots Kraft ‘Involved’ In Decision Making?  Zolak Says That’s Not the Case
MORSE: Final First Round Patriots Mock Draft
Slow Starts: Stark Contrast as Patriots Ponder Which Top QB To Draft
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/24: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Back
Top