Ravens Week Discussion

[mayoclinic]

That mentality comes from Rex Ryan, and it was/is so ingrained in their heads that they'll happily give up 300+ yards passing as long as the run game is shut down.

If we lose, I highly, highly doubt it will be because of our run defense; again, I'm picking the Pats, but New England has a good chance because of Moss/Welker/Brady, not Taylor/Maroney(sp).

Peterson is the only back in the league that I think would have a remote chance of breaking 100 on the Ravens, as well as Johnon/Sproles if they got the ball on their own 20 and broke into the second level.

Every team has strengths and weaknesses. What Belichick is generally unusually good at it finding a way to exploit the other team's capabilities.

No doubt your run D is a strength. I do not believe we have the kind of power running game to just come in and "establish the run" the way the Giants did. If we come in and try to pound the football on first and second down, then we will be facing a lot of third and long situations. I don't see that being very productive for us.

Where we do excel is in TB's ability to take a quick drop and find an open short receiver. Put TB under center with Maroney or Faulk behind him and Welker and Edelman both at WR along with a TE, and Brady will go wild. Take a 3 step drop and hit one of the slot guys, a TE, or a back on a timing route. There won't be enough time to get pressure on Brady, and he's deadly at hooking up with one of his targets in that kind of situation. Get the ball to any of those guys with a yard or two cushion and there's an opportunity to do something with the YAC. Get the Ravens tired of turning around and chasing down the short yardage receiver, and you soften them up so that maybe you can run a bit against them, particular with draws and misdirection plays - not a lot, but some. Add in a vertical passing capability (which we need to establish early to keep the secondary honest and off the LOS) and there's plenty of opportunity to wreck havoc on the very talented Baltimore defense. It won't be easy, and it will take time and patience to wear them down. But we have the personnel to do it.

 

[RabbidRvnFan]

Whats up ya'll just thought I'd chime in.

1. I'm not afraid of New Englands running game. Look over the history of the defense and the one thing that is the common denominator is that the Ravens have a hard time against small speedy backs who can catch the ball on a screen and take advantage of an over-aggressive rush (i.e. Darren Sproles). Fred Taylor happens to be one of my favorite backs but he is a big power back, and unfortunately the Ravens aren't the type of team that you can just hand the ball up the middle 30 times a game and expect to have a lot of success. Most people tend to look at the Giants game last year and say well the teams overrated but it wasn't like the Giants just methodically ran the ball on us all game pushing our linemen off the ball. Yes Ahmad Bradshaw had 96 yards rushing buuuuut 77 of those came on one long run, take that away and you've 22 yards rushing. Jacobs had 73 yards rushing but 36 of those came on one run take that long run away and you've got 37 yards rushing. Ward had 41 yards rushing but 22 of those came on one run take that long run away and you've got 19 yards rushing. Of the Giants 215 yards rushing 135 of those came on 3 plays, take those 3 plays away and you have a whopping 80 yards combined rushing from Jacobs, Bradshaw, and Ward combined. It wasn't as horrible a game as people like to make it

 

[Baltimorefan06]

Yes Ahmad Bradshaw had 96 yards rushing buuuuut 77 of those came on one long run, take that away and you've 22 yards rushing. Jacobs had 73 yards rushing but 36 of those came on one run take that long run away and you've got 37 yards rushing. Ward had 41 yards rushing but 22 of those came on one run take that long run away and you've got 19 yards rushing.

You're ruining the credibility of every Baltimore fan by making that post.

The Giants destroyed us, end of story.

If we played the Giants ten times, they probably would have that much success two or three times, but the bottom line is that New York has the backs and offensive line to run right down our throats those three times, whereas 30 other teams, with Minnesota as a possible exception, simply don't have that in their arsenal.

They're probably the only team capable of doing that, but the point remains.

 

[Baltimorefan06]

Where we do excel is in TB's ability to take a quick drop and find an open short receiver. Put TB under center with Maroney or Faulk behind him and Welker and Edelman both at WR along with a TE, and Brady will go wild. Take a 3 step drop and hit one of the slot guys, a TE, or a back on a timing route. There won't be enough time to get pressure on Brady, and he's deadly at hooking up with one of his targets in that kind of situation. Get the ball to any of those guys with a yard or two cushion and there's an opportunity to do something with the YAC. Get the Ravens tired of turning around and chasing down the short yardage receiver, and you soften them up so that maybe you can run a bit against them, particular with draws and misdirection plays - not a lot, but some. Add in a vertical passing capability (which we need to establish early to keep the secondary honest and off the LOS) and there's plenty of opportunity to wreck havoc on the very talented Baltimore defense. It won't be easy, and it will take time and patience to wear them down. But we have the personnel to do it.

I agree with the run having to be set up through the pass, but honestly, if Welker is back, you could have a nonexistent run game, and I assure you that Moss/Walker could beat us alone.

Huge receivers and elusive players are absolutely deadly against our defense, and if the two can get in a rhythm, then a ground game really won't be necessary.

 

[RabbidRvnFan]

You're ruining the credibility of every Baltimore fan by making that post.

The Giants destroyed us, end of story.

If we played the Giants ten times, they probably would have that much success two or three times, but the bottom line is that New York has the backs and offensive line to run right down our throats those three times, whereas 30 other teams, with Minnesota as a possible exception, simply don't have that in their arsenal.

They're probably the only team capable of doing that, but the point remains.

Don't get me wrong I'll admit that was a bad game but in terms of how we were "gashed" for all those yards and how the Giants just supposedly destroyed us I just don't see it, and I don't believe that the Giants would be able to do that again. Like you said in one of your post Rex loved/loves to blitz which can be a disadvantage when you have people over-pursuing the play and allowing the runningback to break one tackle and be of to the races. You can't overlook the 3 HUGE runs they had and how they may well have been caused by and over-aggressive defense. I'll concede that a team dominates us in the run when they methodically run the ball and average 5-6 yards a carry, their line consistently pushes us off the ball and the rb's break lots of tackles. That simply didn't happen in the Giants game, Bradshaw only had 9 rushing attempts, Jacobs had 11, and Ward had 11 3 big runs prod. 130 yards that can't be overlooked when considering the rushing yards giving up.

As far as the secondary goes the one thing that concerns me is Moss and Welker. Welker for the obvious reasons of him being able to get open ALL THE FREAKING TIME and Moss with his size and speed. But I have to say that I'm not as worried about Moss as I was about a Vincent Jackson because while Moss and Jackson are about the same size height wise Jackson is thicker and way more physical. Galloway doesn't seem to be making the types of plays NE's been looking for but his speed is still a legit threat.

 

[Patspsycho]

Whats up ya'll just thought I'd chime in.

1. I'm not afraid of New Englands running game. Look over the history of the defense and the one thing that is the common denominator is that the Ravens have a hard time against small speedy backs who can catch the ball on a screen and take advantage of an over-aggressive rush (i.e. Darren Sproles). Fred Taylor happens to be one of my favorite backs but he is a big power back, and unfortunately the Ravens aren't the type of team that you can just hand the ball up the middle 30 times a game and expect to have a lot of success.

You're forgetting Faulk, who is very shifty and can catch out of the backfield or in a screen.

 

[Baltimorefan06]

I'll concede that a team dominates us in the run when they methodically run the ball and average 5-6 yards a carry, their line consistently pushes us off the ball and the rb's break lots of tackles.

But knowing that we over-pursue, are blitz happy, and have a great front seven, why would a team formulate a gameplan in which they went straight at us and tried to run down our throats?

The Giants didn't just break off one big run, they had three, and that is no accident.

 

[RabbidRvnFan]

You're forgetting Faulk, who is very shifty and can catch out of the backfield or in a screen.

I was just thinking about him and forget to mention him, watching Patriots games he seems to always be the guy thats heavily involved in game-winning drives. Constant dump offs and him just gaining 5-7 yds is a huge advantage. But even in the 2007 game against us he only had 2 catches for 18 yards. I think we can stop him because we aren't as aggressive as last year and seemed to be more disciplined.

 

[Baltimorefan06]

I think we can stop him because we aren't as aggressive as last year and seemed to be more disciplined.

But because we aren't as aggressive, QBs have had a lot more time, which has resulted in our secondary being shredded.

Again, I highly doubt the Patriots run on us, but I do think that they'll win through the air.

 

[RabbidRvnFan]

But knowing that we over-pursue, are blitz happy, and have a great front seven, why would a team formulate a gameplan in which they went straight at us and tried to run down our throats?

The Giants didn't just break off one big run, they had three, and that is no accident.

Ok then chalk it up to great gameplanning and strategy but to make it seem as if they mauled us and their line just dominated ours all game in a bloody trench match (i.e. a typical steelers game) is inaccurate.

 

[jmt57]

One thing I'm seeing in several of these comments by the Raven fans is a focus on the Pats running game versus the Ravens run defense. I'm guessing that there is an assumption that because the Pats ran the ball 39 times against Atlanta (and won) that the team will plan on doing the same thing Sunday.

Belichick doesn't game plan that way at all. Last week's game plan was based specifically on Atlanta's personnel, their strengths, weaknesses and tendencies. This week's game plan will be based specifically on the Ravens' personnel, strengths, weaknesses and tendencies. In other words what the Patriots did last week has no bearing on what they will plan to attempt to do this week, in any of the three phases of the game.

 

[RabbidRvnFan]

But because we aren't as aggressive, QBs have had a lot more time, which has resulted in our secondary being shredded.

Again, I highly doubt the Patriots run on us, but I do think that they'll win through the air.

Thats my biggest concern too but in all honesty if given a choice between the Rivers, Jackson (6'6"), Floyd (6'5"), Legedu (6'2") all with speed, physical, and Rivers being imo one of the Top 3 Qbs in the league v.s. Brady and Crew.....I'd much rather have Brady and Crew.

 

[JSn]

Thats my biggest concern too but in all honesty if given a choice between the Rivers, Jackson (6'6"), Floyd (6'5"), Legedu (6'2") all with speed, physical, and Rivers being imo one of the Top 3 Qbs in the league v.s. Brady and Crew.....I'd much rather have Brady and Crew.

Let's revisit this next week, shall we?

 

[RabbidRvnFan]

One thing I'm seeing in several of these comments by the Raven fans is a focus on the Pats running game versus the Ravens run defense. I'm guessing that there is an assumption that because the Pats ran the ball 39 times against Atlanta (and won) that the team will plan on doing the same thing Sunday.

Belichick doesn't game plan that way at all. Last week's game plan was based specifically on Atlanta's personnel, their strengths, weaknesses and tendencies. This week's game plan will be based specifically on the Ravens' personnel, strengths, weaknesses and tendencies. In other words what the Patriots did last week has no bearing on what they will plan to attempt to do this week, in any of the three phases of the game.

Which is exactly why Welker and Moss are the concerns. The debate about the running game had more to do with two Ravens fans just disagreeing on a previous game.

 

[timetohunt]

and an excellent running attack. You don't have a Michael Turner, but you have 3 excellent RBs with different styles and use them to complement each other. Best offense the Ravens have had this decade.

good assessment (all of it). I just picked this bit out. Like I said previously, I watch most AFC games. I remember when Willis Mcgahee broke into the league with buffalo - it looked like he might become one of the best backs around. Then he firmly put his head up his arse and almost did that a couple times in baltimore. This is a different guy this year. He might have been injured or out of shape last year, dont know. The dude looks strong and is running like the back people thought he might become. Yea, I know, new passing game and the new line open it up to make things different. but still, every highlight Ive watched looks like he got full power again.

 

[swheeler23]

Ravens are the best team in football.

 

[eagle eye]

We need our receivers and Tom Brady on the same page for this game, its all about our passing game. The Ravens D against the rush is very solid only giving up something like 2.5 ypc in their games so far.

This is one tough match up. I honestly could not call it at this stage but to be very honest I'd have the Ravens as slight favourites given what they've done so far, even if it hasn't been against top level teams and the fact that our passing game has yet to click into gear.

 

[mayoclinic]

One thing I'm seeing in several of these comments by the Raven fans is a focus on the Pats running game versus the Ravens run defense. I'm guessing that there is an assumption that because the Pats ran the ball 39 times against Atlanta (and won) that the team will plan on doing the same thing Sunday.

Belichick doesn't game plan that way at all. Last week's game plan was based specifically on Atlanta's personnel, their strengths, weaknesses and tendencies. This week's game plan will be based specifically on the Ravens' personnel, strengths, weaknesses and tendencies. In other words what the Patriots did last week has no bearing on what they will plan to attempt to do this week, in any of the three phases of the game.

I tried to say that in my earlier post a page or so back. I don't see Fred Taylor being a big part of our game plan on Sunday because I don't see a power running game being a big part of BB's game plan against the Ravens - we don't have the kind of power running game that the Giants have to be successful.

What I do is a short passing game using Faulk and Maroney out of the backfield along with the slot receivers and TEs, mixed in with some screens, draws, and misdirection, and combined with a vertical passing attack. If Maroney is healthy I wouldn't be surprised to see he and Faulk get the bulk of the assignments at RB.

At any rate, you are 100% correct that our game plan against Atlanta has nothing to do with our game plan against Baltimore.

 

[BionicPatriot]

This could be the game to put Edelman's name to fame. If Welker can get back on the field, they'll be big for us in a blitz happy game.

 

[BionicPatriot]

So true. So true. The biggest match up of the day is going to be the Ravens Haloti Ngata against the Patriots Dan Koppen. Now any fool knows that Bill isn't going to leave Dan against Haloti one on one. Mostly he's going to get Neal or Mankins to help him out. Unfortunately, Mr. Baltimore, (aka Ray Lewis), is standing right behind Mr. Brick Wall, (Haloti Ngata), and isn't afraid to shoot a gap.

This may come as a shock to many people, but this particular game is going to require us to do something that I could not stand. We must throw the ball. We cannot run against the Ravens. We are not the Giants. They had a very powerful, physical offensive line. They had a very different offensive philosophy: kick the other guys head in with the running game. We do not. We are a finesse team. We may have impersonated a running team against the Falcons because of the obvious size advantage favoring our team. We will not have this advantage against the Ravens. They are physical. They may not be as good on defense as they were in previous years, but they still are dangerous.

I repeat that we must throw the ball. We must spread them out. There is no Darrelle Revis on this team. Mr. Moss should be able to use his height against the Ravens quick, but short, receivers. If we go with four receiver sets, we can expose some of the Ravens CB depth and get some honest one on one match ups. Once again, this is only possible because Moss will be double covered by two Ravens defenders. The remaining Ravens defenders will have to handle the Patriots complex schemes one on one.

The bad news is that Wes Welker may not play this game. Without Welker in this game, it will be very difficult securing a win. If we could get Welker and Edelman in the slots in four receiver sets, we can spread them out significantly.

Also, Tom Brady is still not Tom Brady. Don't let that last touchdown fool you. He is not there yet. We are going to need screens to help spread out this defense and get the Ravens to play less aggressively (see Welker, Wes).

The running game will not be completely neglected, but it will not be the focal point. We should try to sprinkle it in here and there in order to attempt to keep our offense honest (something we were atrociously bad at the first two games).

The good news is that the emergence of Brandon McGowan has given this defense a new wrinkle. They now have another friendly face that can cover and stop the run. We most likely wont stop Flacco cold. Most likely we'll try to contain his effectiveness by doubling Mason, and by taking away his tightends and running backs as passing options.

I pretty much agree. Unless Maroney is doing his annual 6 game vacation, he could be useful running sweeps and such.

You're dead on about passing. They're going to come after Brady all day. In the Jets game, Edelman had 98 yards receiving. If he and Welker can manage to get on the field together they could be the difference in this match up. I look for a lot of dump off passes to move the chains and chew the clock.