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Rationing health care

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patsfanin Philly, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    Pap Smears Save Lives, Study Confirms - ABC News


    Regular PAP smears save lives so……..



    Health panel: Pap tests needed only every 3 years - chicagotribune.com


    Government backed Health Panel- PAP smears only needed every three years….
    >>>Moyer's group attracted controversy late last year when it recommended against annual prostate cancer screening in men, after concluding that the possibility the tests could invite unnecessary and potentially harmful follow-up procedures outweighed their benefits.<<<<<


    Welcome to the age of rationed care…..
  2. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey


    I can't get your first link to work so I'm not sure what your point it.

    The recommendations of the government panel are the same as the recommendations of The American Cancer Society, the American Society for Colposcopy and Cervical Pathology and the American Society for Clinical Pathology.

    Are you saying that women should undergo the invasive procedure yearly instead of following the 3 year recommendation made by all those experts?
  3. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    Link worked fine for me.. My point is that it is strange how we grew up with the mantra of "early detection saves lives" and now in the last two years we're hearing that we don't need annual checks for mammograms for women under 50, pap smears or prostate checks. I'm not blaming Affordable Care Act ( aka Obamacare) because I think it was inevitable in an age of diminished resources but I wish they would be honest about it.....
  4. DarrylS

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    So you think Obamacare is the culprit??? If anything we have more resources than ever.. no matter what they say will still get my PSA checked twice a year.

    Heard yesterday that the rates of cervical cancer is extremely low and does not warrant this level of intervention..
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
  5. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    Did you read what I wrote?? I posted that I thought it was inevitable, even without Health Care Reform because of the realization that we can't provide all things to all people. C. Everett Koop wrote of the three parts of the health care system. Universal Coverage, immediate access ( no rationing of care), and high tech treatment. He postulated that you can have 2 out of 3 but not all three. Previously in the US we gave up universal coverage but the issue of being " all things to all people" was ending regardless of health care reform and we had to make hard choices, some of which is reevaluating the way we treat things and prevention measures. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing just posting that the paradigm, as it were is changing and it is unrelated to Obamacare/ACA.
    The costs are being weighed against the benefits of early detection in those cases. What if you are that person whose cancer was caught early by a PSA test or a PAP smear, depending on your sex obviously...?
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
  6. DarrylS

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    From the article this ain't the government speaking, unless they are in on it.

  7. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    The United States Preventive Services Task Force, is under AHRQ the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality which is a government agency ( with a .gov URL) so it is part of the government speaking.......

    U.S. Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF): Introduction
  8. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    The United States Preventive Services Task Force, is under AHRQ the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality which is a government agency ( with a .gov URL) so it is part of the government speaking.......

    U.S. Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF): Introduction

    PS If you're in Harrisburg, check out Bricco's downtown for great Italian food...
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
  9. DarrylS

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    Do not follow your train of thought, I brought up the recommendations of the American Cancer Society, who to the best of my knowledge have nothing to do with rationing health care, their standard calls for a pap smear every 5 years, while the task force calls for every three years...
  10. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    This is just a thought - but I think it's a valid thought and so I'm gonna throw it out and see what you think.

    There was a period of time, mostly the 70s and 80s and 90s, where medical tests were ordered constantly simply because they were covered by insurance. There were a lot of unnecessary tests being done by doctors - and there was a lot of money changing hands. Hospitals routinely did huge "admission tests" - works ups which extended far beyond a person's initial complaint. Some of it stemmed from the fear of being sued for missing something and some of it stemmed from pure greed.

    Insurance companies didn't question it, patients didn't question it and doctor visits and hospital stays just kept getting more and more expensive. Doctors who used to send you to the hospital to get labs drawn suddenly opened their own labs and drew their own specimens - free standing x-ray clinics and blood testing labs opened up. Obviously there was money to be made from ordering tests. Lots of money. Enough for everyone. More than enough for everyone.

    And now we're at a saturation point and the money's drying up. Probably with good reason.

    Remember when you were a kid and you went to the dr. with a sore throat? The doctor looked in your throat and if there were white patches on it, you got an antibiotic - if there weren't white patches, you got a cough drop. Now the doctor does a rapid strep in his office - results in 5 minutes and, if it's positive, you get an antibiotic - with the instructions that if the "real" results,( the one he gets from the lab he sends the second swab to) comes back negative, you must quit taking the antibiotic because you do not have strep (rapid results are often false positive) and an antibiotic will not help you. And boom! You or your insurance company has just paid for not one but two tests to confirm what the presence or non-presence of white patches in your throat already told your doctor.

    Perhaps the old accepted yearly demand for a PAP smear or a prostate check or a mammogram was more driven by "Hey, they're paid for, why not make some money off it," then an actual benefit ratio?

    Just a thought.
  11. Patsfanin Philly

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    #95 Jersey

    The CYA in case of a lawsuit mentality has to factor in, now though not as much in the past...

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