Ras-I Dowling

[Marqui]

Not necessarily. Even if it's an injury, it could be

a.) Slow healing

b.) different injury

Well yeah, I meant it has to be injury related.

Dowling beat out Arrington and Bodden last year with no TC. He then looked borderline shutdown against Miami and SD. Based on that, if he was 100%, he would easily beat out Moore and most likely would beat Arrington for the starting spot.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

His grandmother died. Tavon's grandma (the 112 year old one) died last week too.

 

[supafly]

Based on that, if he was 100%, he would easily beat out Moore and most likely would beat Arrington for the starting spot.

I would think that this would be a common sense type of thought, but if that's the case then Dowling must have been injured for quite awhile now, considering that he could not win the starting spot over Arrington way back in July/August.

 

[1%er]

I would think that this would be a common sense type of thought, but if that's the case then Dowling must have been injured for quite awhile now, considering that he could not win the starting spot over Arrington way back in July/August.

Ras-I No Moore - Pats Pulpit

 

[supafly]

If it's because he's been cleanly beaten out by Sterling Moore, how many more draft picks are going to be burnt in an attempt to find a starting cornerback?

If that's the case, then all of our hype regarding Dowling may very well have been for nothing.

Although there doesn't seem to be a clear cut answer at this point in time, I'm thinking that he was not injured too badly in training camp when he could not overtake the spot held by Arrington...and that's even stranger when we pretty much all had assumed that Arrington was much better suited for the slot CB position.

If he wasn't being managed too much in regards to injury yet still couldn't beat out Arrington, I am thinking that it is not injury related, but then again one never knows for sure.

As far as choosing CB's in the draft, did you witness Janoris Jenkins hanging in there pretty well vs Fitzgerald last night? I for one would not have taken the chance on him, but he seemed to look decent talent-wise so far. Of course it's early yet, so he may implode at any moment now.

 

[supafly]

Ras-I No Moore - Pats Pulpit

That's actually a nice read 1%er, thanks for the link.

The article examines some of the thoughts as to why Moore is out there as opposed to Dowling, and one thought that stands out is that they may rotate a bit as the schemes and gameplans change.

Not sure if I'm buying that specific theory, but it sounds like it may be effective

 

[RayClay]

By the way, remember when Spikes was on the way out, was a bad apple, was made of glass etc.?

We don't know what goes on behind the scenes. also, remember how Cunningham was a bust, a waste of space, should have been starting since he was a second round pick etc? It's simply doesn't happen that way on a Belichick team.

Like Cunningham's case last year, we seem to have an even newer defensive look with a 4-3 with huge 3-4 size linebackers. Could it be they are working on compensating for a not so great bunch of coverage linebackers who are great otherwise?

I don't know, but i wouldn't be surprised (now that we know Ras I was excused for his grandmothers funeral) that it's a coincidence of personal issues and trying to find new schemes and players who best fit them.

If we jumped to conclusions over who "get's it" and who doesn't, we would have written off Moore at least twice (or was he cut three times?)

Best idea at this point might be to relax and watch the defensive adjustments unfold. They aren't going to institute an emergency draft in October for jittery fans who want to blow it up before midseason, and anybody worth anything has got a job already, so we're pretty much stuck with what we've got like it or not. Chill out and enjoy the season.

 

[RobertWeathers]

He had a death in the family.

Yep. Just saw that.

 

[Avenger]

Dowling was worth the risk, uninjured he would have gone top 15 if not higher. Nobody complains about drafting an injured tight end with back issues in the second round.

 

[VJCPatriot]

If there was ever a game for Ras-I to play it'd be this Sunday against the Broncos. Decker/Thomas are both 6'3" 225-230 and we could sure use Ras-I's size to cover one of these guys.

Size is one reason why we drafted him but if he can't stay wit them then he's going to be pretty useless out there. Don't know what has happened to Dowling. Looking like a wasted pick right now. But 50% of 2nd rounders will bust so those are the chances you take.

 

[patsfaninpa]

McCourty looks much better in press coverage this year. Just wish we did it a little more. We usually have safety help over the top. Though, they are slow as hell getting there. I'd like to see more of Ras-I as we use more press coverage. Slide Arrington into the slot. As BB gains confidence in his safeties, I'm hoping we see more of it.

 

[Ring 6]

McCourty looks much better in press coverage this year. Just wish we did it a little more. We usually have safety help over the top. Though, they are slow as hell getting there. I'd like to see more of Ras-I as we use more press coverage. Slide Arrington into the slot. As BB gains confidence in his safeties, I'm hoping we see more of it.

Press coverage accepts greater risk of a big play. We have the top offense in the NFL and a strong run D. The strategy on D is conservative, not blitzing much at all, with fits in with those 2 characteristics. Playing a lot of press flips that script.
The general rule of thumb is if you have more talent you should be conservative and if you are at a talent disadvantage you should play aggressively because big plays are what creates upsets.
I've never seen a good explanation for why overly aggressive makes sense with the makeup of this team, other than fans think aggressive is cool to watch, and macho.

 

[Ring 6]

Dowling had an injury history, so it's not as if him getting hurt a lot is shocking. What I want to know is:

a) Is Dowling's current situation because of injury, or was he cleanly beaten out?

b.) If it's because of injury, is this something that's going to be chronic/permanent?

c.) If it's because he's been cleanly beaten out by Sterling Moore, how many more draft picks are going to be burnt in an attempt to find a starting cornerback?

I dont think we have these answers yet. Considering virtually no camp and 1 game as a rookie, plus the unknown spot on the rehab curve, I don't find it extremely troubling yet that we do not.
Although (c) can probably be answered now with as many as it takes.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Press coverage accepts greater risk of a big play. We have the top offense in the NFL and a strong run D. The strategy on D is conservative, not blitzing much at all, with fits in with those 2 characteristics. Playing a lot of press flips that script.
The general rule of thumb is if you have more talent you should be conservative and if you are at a talent disadvantage you should play aggressively because big plays are what creates upsets.
I've never seen a good explanation for why overly aggressive makes sense with the makeup of this team, other than fans think aggressive is cool to watch, and macho.

No offense Andy. But, that's the idea on how to defend old man football. Stop the run and prevent the bomb. Passing games are exponentially better throughout the NFL than they were 8-10 years ago. You can't give these young qb's any window to throw the ball. We let Mark Sanchez beat us in a home playoff game two years ago. We were 14 and bleepin 2. Joe Flacco had us on the ropes at home and we were 13 and bleepin 3. A catch by their wr ends our season. Sure it's workS againsT the myriad of crappy qb's we've seen in the AFC East recently. But, it's preventing us from having a championship level defense. I truly believe we have the talent to play a more agressive pass coverage scheme. We just don't. Because it works against Sanchez, Fitzpatrick and whomever the hell Miami has thrown at us.

our strategy will win the AFC East again. But, when we have to play a more agressive scheme. We don't execute it. Mainly, because we hardly ever use it.

 

[fnordcircle]

Well yeah, I meant it has to be injury related.

Dowling beat out Arrington and Bodden last year with no TC. He then looked borderline shutdown against Miami and SD. Based on that, if he was 100%, he would easily beat out Moore and most likely would beat Arrington for the starting spot.

Where does this stuff come from? Is it from echoing each other so much that the legend of Ras-I gets inflated? Confirmation bias? I can't tell.

Ras-I didn't look borderline shutdown against Miami or SD, Jesus. SD was just too busy abusing us with Vincent Jackson to go after Dowling much.

On top of that Bodden was still recovering (and never would) from an injury when previously he had been our clear cut #1.

I'm not saying that Dowling is bad or I hope he fails, I hope he becomes the best player at his position of all time. I feel that way about every player we bring in. I just don't think folks are being realistic about a player who hasn't even played half of a season.

It's not like Bill Belichick has a habit of benching players who should be playing over others. Whatever is wrong with Dowling I think we're past the point of being able to chalk it up to injury otherwise the team would have disclosed it.

 

[Ring 6]

No offense Andy. But, that's the idea on how to defend old man football. Stop the run and prevent the bomb. Passing games are exponentially better throughout the NFL than they were 8-10 years ago. You can't give these young qb's any window to throw the ball. We let Mark Sanchez beat us in a home playoff game two years ago. We were 14 and bleepin 2. Joe Flacco had us on the ropes at home and we were 13 and bleepin 3. A catch by their wr ends our season.

Noi offense, but that is simply ludicrous. An approach that got us to 14-2 and 13-3 stinks because we lost one and won one, and there was a QB on the other team?
Nothing in anything you said there has anything to do with why we would have been better off playing aggressive press coverage other than you name the result as proof something else would be better. Perhaps we should change to a single wing, triple option to prevent those losses, or near losses, since we were 14-2 and 13-3, and didn't score as many points in those games as in others. That is as supported an argument as the one you are making.

Sure it's workS againsT the myriad of crappy qb's we've seen in the AFC East recently. But, it's preventing us from having a championship level defense.

No, it hasn't.

I truly believe we have the talent to play a more agressive pass coverage scheme. We just don't.

So explain this to me. Does Belichick not know as much as you about what we have the talent to do, or are you just smarter about what scheme he should use?
Seriously, you are just making stuff up here.

Because it works against Sanchez, Fitzpatrick and whomever the hell Miami has thrown at us.

Are you honestly suggesting that BB creates one game plan to use all 16 games? Really?

our strategy will win the AFC East again. But, when we have to play a more agressive scheme. We don't execute it. Mainly, because we hardly ever use it.

When have we had to use a more aggressive scheme and not executed it.

Again, this is a case of you deciding what you think, then pretending the facts support it.
Your argument adds up to:

We should do _______________ because we haven't won a SB in a while.

And you can fill in 1000 things in the blank that the argument you just gave would support as well as the one you chose to fill in.
There is nothing in your post showing any cause of not playing aggressive press defense to the result.

 

[Ring 6]

Where does this stuff come from? Is it from echoing each other so much that the legend of Ras-I gets inflated? Confirmation bias? I can't tell.

Ras-I didn't look borderline shutdown against Miami or SD, Jesus. SD was just too busy abusing us with Vincent Jackson to go after Dowling much.

On top of that Bodden was still recovering (and never would) from an injury when previously he had been our clear cut #1.

I'm not saying that Dowling is bad or I hope he fails, I hope he becomes the best player at his position of all time. I feel that way about every player we bring in. I just don't think folks are being realistic about a player who hasn't even played half of a season.

It's not like Bill Belichick has a habit of benching players who should be playing over others. Whatever is wrong with Dowling I think we're past the point of being able to chalk it up to injury otherwise the team would have disclosed it.

Yes, legends have a way of growing around here, both positive and negative.
Dowling was hurt most of preseason but surprisingly started game 1, and wasn't awful, then went out for the year, so time turned him into a shutdown corner on a defense allowing 400+ to Chad Henne
Around here anyone who doesn't play either gets way better or way worse because of it, usually both depending on who is speaking.

 

[patsfaninpa]

The patriots have scored over 500 points each of the last two seasons. And, are on pace to do so again this year. That is the reason for their success. Not the defense. That's like Donald Trump saying I'm getting these hot women because of my good looks. There's a reason the Pats are very successful. It's rarely the defense. Especially against good qb's.

 

[mgteich]

I BELIEVE
that players who lose their entire rookie year (or all but one game) to injury are much less likely to achieve what their draft level would have suggested.

OTHER SEEM TO BELIEVE
that a rookie losing his rookie year and coming back from an injury after losing that season simply pick up where they left off, not being much affected by the loss of development time or being seriously impaired by the injury.

CONCLUSION
It is unreasonable to have the same expectation for Dowling going into 2012 that we had in 2011. The bar is lower after the injury and loss of a year.

Yes, legends have a way of growing around here, both positive and negative.
Dowling was hurt most of preseason but surprisingly started game 1, and wasn't awful, then went out for the year, so time turned him into a shutdown corner on a defense allowing 400+ to Chad Henne
Around here anyone who doesn't play either gets way better or way worse because of it, usually both depending on who is speaking.

 

[Marqui]

Yes, legends have a way of growing around here, both positive and negative.
Dowling was hurt most of preseason but surprisingly started game 1, and wasn't awful, then went out for the year, so time turned him into a shutdown corner on a defense allowing 400+ to Chad Henne
Around here anyone who doesn't play either gets way better or way worse because of it, usually both depending on who is speaking.

So since you know everything about it, break it down for us then. What plays against which receivers did Dowling give up? What exactly was wrong with his covering technique?

Maybe "shutdown" was too strong a word. But he have up 2 catches in about 90 snaps from my estimation and made some nice plays in one-one-one coverage in the endzone against Marshall and Harline in Miami. Very small sample size but he looked like a very good starting caliber cover corner. Tell me how I'm wrong.

I BELIEVE
that players who lose their entire rookie year (or all but one game) to injury are much less likely to achieve what their draft level would have suggested.

OTHER SEEM TO BELIEVE
that a rookie losing his rookie year and coming back from an injury after losing that season simply pick up where they left off, not being much affected by the loss of development time or being seriously impaired by the injury.

CONCLUSION
It is unreasonable to have the same expectation for Dowling going into 2012 that we had in 2011. The bar is lower after the injury and loss of a year.

To be clear I completely agree with this. I think now he'll most likely never reach the potential I saw from him last year. I think his hip is chronically blown and won't be able to move the way he use to anytime soon, if ever.