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Ras-I Dowling

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by BPF, May 1, 2011.

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  1. BPF

    BPF In the Starting Line-Up

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    I like this site, this was posted on 4/20:
    The Scouts Notebook

     
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  2. BPF

    BPF In the Starting Line-Up

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    Back on March 29th he had this nugget on Mallett.

     
  3. BPF

    BPF In the Starting Line-Up

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    March 23rd:
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2011
  4. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    You have done some very nice digging...:rocker:
     
  5. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A site and analyst I also enjoy reading.
     
  6. Commodore K'nection

    Commodore K'nection Rookie

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    I don't get it. If you're gonna take Ras-I with the 33rd pick, why not just take the Prince @ 17 instead of Solder. Then take Gabe Carimi at 28 instead of trading out. Then you'd have Amukamara/Carimi instead of Dowling/Solder. Might not have Saints 2012 1st rd pick, but for all intents and purposes that pick is really a 2nd rd pick as it will be 26 or later.
     
  7. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Because Solder was deemed a better player than Prince at 17. I don't disagree at all. And Carimi would never be anything more than a right tackle in the Patriots' scheme.
     
  8. Commodore K'nection

    Commodore K'nection Rookie

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    To me it seems Prince is a far superior CB to Dowling. At one point Prince was rated neck and neck with Patrick Peterson. Dowling never even sniffed the top 15.

    Carimi and Solder were pretty closely rated, with Solder the consensus better prospect. However, Pats are unique that they have Sebastian Vollmer they can kick to LT if they draft a RT. Very few teams have this luxury.

    Bottom line, Amukamara/Carimi to me has more value than a Solder/Dowling combo. The drop off between the CBs is pretty big, whereas Solder may have high upside, but low floor, whereas Carimi has high floor/decent upside.
     
  9. Dufflebagz

    Dufflebagz 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Don't base your opinions around what the "experts" rankings were. For all we know BB had Dowling as the 2nd best CB in the draft.

    How do you figure?
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2011
  10. tuckeverlasting

    tuckeverlasting 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    No Jersey Selected

    bottom line is the value of the fresh prince and carimi v. solder, dowling and the saints no.1 next yr. though option a is intriguiging, i prefer option b.
     
  11. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    This is easy to answer actually. If you watched the draft special, (posted on the main forum today) they showed Belichick breaking each pick down-- separately of course. He doesn't go into the draft thinking of drafting different combinations of players, for ex: the one you would've rather had in Amukamara and Carimi. He did not 'plan' on taking the combo of Solder and Dowling. If you watch as they break it down, he was actually fielding phone calls for the high majority of the time with the #33rd pick. He talked to multiple teams about the possibility of a trade, but was asking to swap spots this yr in the 2nd AND for a 2012 2nd rounder. When no one met his trade demands (they show him hanging up the phone multiple times at #33), the Patriots simply took the player who they had rated as highest at the time--or at least the player that they all agreed on in Dowling.

    In other words, they had no idea if they'd trade #33 or not when they picked Solder at #17--therefore, they could not predict taking a OL/CB combo, as you say.

    Otherwise, if they could've predicted that, they may have taken the combo you would have wanted, although I still seriously doubt it to be honest.

    Carimi is nowhere as good as Solder, and for all we know Dowling may end up being just as good as Amukamara, if not better.
     
  12. TealSox

    TealSox Guest

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    Keep in mind, the Patriots would had preferred to trade the 33rd pick for a future 2nd round pick and moving back in the first round. In that scenario, there would be no combo of Solder and Dowling to measure against the combo of Carimi and Amukamara.
     
  13. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    You mean moving back in the 2nd round, and an additional 2nd rounder for 2012?? That's what the video showed them trying to do--they wanted to swap places with the trading team in the 2nd, + pick up an additional 2012 2nd for doing so.

    I can't see how they'd have traded the pick at 33 (day two) on the first day, especially with having 17 and 28. How could they have moved back in the first round on day two? Or do you mean they'd have preferred to package it with something else on day one?

    Of course, it is 4:40 am, and I may be missing the point entirely--which certainly wouldn't be a first :)
     
  14. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey


    First of all, it's pure hindsight that Carimi was available at #28, most mocks had him going higher. (Gosselin's last mock said KC at #26; Seattle shocked everybody by taking Carpenter over Crimini at #25.)

    Beyond that, though, I don't see how Carimi is any kind of swap for Solder given that they play different positions. Solder is a pure LT, Carimi is a pure RT. Which position is more expensive and harder to fill?

    So even assuming you could count on Carimi at #28, the choice was:

    1. Amukamara + Right Tackle + 2010 #33
    v.
    2. Left Tackle + Dowling + Shane Vereen + 2012 1st-round pick

    Amukamara has to be vastly better than Dowling to tilt the balance toward B.
     
  15. Lamanai

    Lamanai On the Game Day Roster

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    For what it is worth, in his ESPN pre-Draft special, Bill Parcells had some unfavorable things to say about Prince Amukamara. He was mentioned among the players Parcells thought would drop. Short arms, tendency to bump/grab his man, etc...I got the sense he'd pass on that player.
     
  16. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #3 Jersey

    patchick—this post made my brain hurt. :( ;)
     
  17. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    Wrongness is painful for sure. Sorry, let's try that again:


    1. Amukamara + Right Tackle + 2011 #33
    v.
    2. Left Tackle + Dowling + Shane Vereen* + 2012 1st-round pick

    Amukamara has to be vastly better than Dowling to tilt the balance toward 2.


    (*In a lot of discussions of pick 28 people talk about the future Saints' pick and forget Vereen, who is not chopped liver.)
     
  18. SirApropos

    SirApropos On the Game Day Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    Agreed. I think they got the RB they always intended to get in Vareen (at #60) and fleeced the Saints out of a 2012 1st rounder.
     
  19. SanAngeloState

    SanAngeloState Banned

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    I hope dowling can stay healthy, is all I'm worried about. Amukamara has short arms, small hands and a stocky build...not working for me. Blackmon abused him pretty badly in a game when he was one on one.
     
  20. TealSox

    TealSox Guest

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    My mistake... I meant say swapping the 33rd pick for another teams 2011 2nd round pick in addition to a 2nd round pick in 2012.
     
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