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Ranking the Pats' "Top Five" needs...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Armen Da Pats Fan, Apr 11, 2006.

  1. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan Rookie

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    I tried to pick out draft prospects we might have a shot at...
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Linebacker - Need to get younger...draft would be the place to go...

    Top Draft Prospects:
    1. Ernie Sims, FSU
    2. Chad Greenway, Iowa
    3. A.J. Hawk, OSU
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Wide Reciever - Need to replace Givens, but this doesn't necessarily have to be done in the draft. Could wait until June 1 cuts...

    Top Draft Prospects:
    1. Santonio Holmes, OSU.
    2. Sinorice Moss, Miami
    3. Chad Jackson, UF
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Cornerback - I actually don't think we're in that bad of shape here, with Samuel, Hobbs, Warfield, Gay & Poteat, but a nice shutdown corner for the future can't hurt!

    Top Draft Prospects:
    1. Tye Hill, Clemson
    2. Richard Marshall, Fresno State
    3. Jimmy Williams, Virginia Tech

    *Ashton Youboty, Ohio State

    *(Got to put him on there, just so when he gets an INT, Gil Santos can say, "Shake Youboty!")
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Offensive Line - Lumping tackles and guards together here because New England seems to like players who can be flexible and play either position...

    Top Draft Prospects:
    1. Marcus McNeill, Auburn
    2. Eric Winston, Miami
    3. Davin Joseph, Oklahoma
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Running Back - I still think Corey Dillon has a few good years left (2? 3?), but conventional wisdom says his train is pulling up to the station, so to indulge that school, it's time to start grooming his replacement. Damn shame Cedric Cobbs couldn't fulfill his potential!

    LenDale White may be there, but something tells me he's not a "Belichick-type" of guy!

    Laurence Maroney played in the Divsion I's top ranked rushing offense (Minnesota) for most of the season in '05! Don't know much about him, but my buddy Dave is a huge Penn State / Big Ten fan and he says Maroney's the real deal!

    Top Draft Prospects:
    1. Laurence Maroney, Minnesota
    2. Leon Washington, FSU
    3. Gerald Riggs, Tennessee
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thoughts?

    ADPF
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2006
  2. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    1. #1 cornerback
    2. #2 wide receiver
    3. quick running back
    4. pass rushing OLB
    5. kick returner
  3. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    1. Dl
    2. Lb
    3. Wr
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  4. DB15

    DB15 Rookie

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    armen you have no idea what your talking about... you just threw out names there... half of them will be gone before the pats picks and two some of those players are not patriot types
  5. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My 5 top needs, in no particular order:

    WR, RB, SS, OLB, PK.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the Patriots filled either WR, RB or OLB need with pick 21.

    In this case my personal favourites to fill these 3 positions, at the 21 spot, would be:

    WR - Santonio Holmes
    RB - DeAngelo Williams
    OLB - Manny Lawson
  6. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    I still like Carpenter at 21....and think there are plenty of good ones in later rounds in positions...Maybe a CB OL..in 2nd 3rd...later rounds for WR and RB...
  7. the taildragger

    the taildragger Rookie

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    i'm not as worried about CB as most given our current depth there -- no "shutdowns" to be sure but I think the position is a bit overrated in general. The defense at the end of 04 and 05 proves BB's theory that defensive strength goes from the front to the back not the other way around. If a solid front seven takes most of the tackling burden off your DBs you can get away with smaller shiftier guys who don't break the bank.

    a givens replacement will be an obvious priority even with the expanded role that Watson is likely to take in '06...givens wasn't irreplaceable but it's such a key role in this scheme and will take time to build a solid rapport with TB. I'm much more concerned with this hole than the ones vacated by AV or WM.

    another impact LB and depth at LB are definitely key. Reiss has "assumed" that BB is penciling in Vrabel as the outside guy and going into the draft accordingly -- an unwise assumption given that Vrabel can fill in where needed...I doubt they slot Vrabel anywhere until AFTER the draft...and I have a feeling they'd like to keep him INSIDE if possible.

    As important to our scheme as protection is I always like to see OL drafted high (I know they're boring picks;) ). You can get the premium OL on a relatively cheap cost basis. Awesome to see Mankins transition as well as he is and Kaczur is the obvious choice for RT...but there's still a couple big question marks at LT and C. Scar has been perhaps the second best coach on the team for the past five years, but this notion that he's a miracle worker is unrealistic...Scar was the same coach with Bledsoe's line but that didn't help keep him off his ass...the reality is that our QB makes Scar look like a miracle worker.

    They know more than we do on the Light/Koppen injuries, but I can see them going after a young insurance guy with versatility who could play on either side or at a couple of spots. If we can buy TB another half second we'd be unstoppable regardless of who the receivers are...and as bill simmons said, you can't expect no.12 to keep getting up from all those hits, one of these days he's just not getting up...please knock on wood if you're reading this!:eek:
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2006
  8. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    You might want to clarify how you want people to rank the needs

    For this season? For the future? Based on what order we should draft for those needs?

    My point is that for various positions and for various needs, one would need to rank the need for the present and the future, based upon how the draft can or can't help you address those needs.

    For example - we probably already have our starting secondary on the roster - but drafting a young, fast, tall CB can pay big dividends and can be much cheaper than paying a FA in the future.

    WR is still a huge need - but does history suggest the draft is the best place to find one? There is often value later in the draft but usually they all take a year or more to develop, causing some to drop WRs down the Patriots draft board.

    Value for RB too can be found later in the draft, although this is a big priority for the future (and hopefully not the present).

    My top "need" is a WR but I wouldn't suggest we use a first round pick on that.

    For me, first round picks are used for as close to a "sure thing" as possible, regardless of the position. After that I begin to work in my team needs with the talent available.


    So as far as the draft is concerned, I find my top round "value" is most likely on Defense - a LB or CB.

    In rounds 2-4 I look at RBs & WRs even though I have WR ranked as a higher "need" than Defense.

    Later rounds wind up being a "best player available" scenario, with a preferred Kicker being taken in the 6th or 7th, even though that is still a high need
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2006
  9. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Joe Six Pat may as well be my clone...100% agreement
  10. DocAdkinsDiet

    DocAdkinsDiet Rookie

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    Ya, there is no way in hell the Pats have a shot at grabbing Hawk or Jackson or guys like that. They will be long gone by the time we get to #21. I still think Carpenter is our best choice. This is my ranking:
    1. LB
    2. TE
    3. RB
    4. WR
    5. OL
  11. 14thDragon

    14thDragon Rookie

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    I don't know,

    I would say our needs are

    1 - ILB: Tedy and Vrable are a good tandem, but we need a big run stuffer to shore up the run defense.

    2 - OLB: Going into the season with only TBC and Colvin on the wings will let quarter backs eat us alive.

    3 - WR: Branch said it himself, in double and triple coverage, he will be shut down.

    4 - C: Koppen has had a major injury that is tough to recover from as well as being near the end of his contract. A new project for the O-line is a thing to start now.

    5 - CB: A good physical shutdown corner to take up the slack when the injury bug returns.
  12. ilduce06410

    ilduce06410 Rookie

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    can carpenter walk in and start?

    for that matter, can greenway?
    IMHO 1st round picks should have forced their way into starting lineups by midseason. since 1999, we've had wilfork, ty warren, ben watson,daniel graham, richard seymour, damien woody. for me, if the 1st round pick can't make the starting lineup by midseason the player shouldn't have been picked so high.
    carpenter & greenway both look good to me---but what's up with claridge? is there actually a need at OLB?
  13. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave Rookie

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    Hmmm... let's see.
    !. LB
    2. WR - though I'm not sure if this will be a day 1 pick, or adressed at all through the draft.
    3. S - with Rodney's status unknown, i'm not comfortable with our depth at SS.
    4. DE - I would not be surprised at all to see a DE taken on day 1.Behind Seymour and Warren you have Green and Hill. Not sure what's up with Hill, but with Seymour's contract status, it might be prudent.
    5. RB - with so many good ones this year, I don't see why they would'nt grab one.
  14. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    I'm not sure how you can have TE as your 2nd priority. We have two VERY GOOD ones right now. I see an heir apparent to Dillon and a #2 WR as far more important than landing a 3rd TE (or even a replacement for Graham in case he leaves in 2007).

    Now, if you're arguing that there's great VALUE at TE, then I get your point, but it still can't possibly be #2 in terms of team need.
  15. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan Rookie

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    Gosh, how do you REALLY feel?
  16. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan Rookie

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    And now that I've recovered from your total rudeness a little, I wasn't ranking Patriots' draft picks, I was ranking who I thought were the top prospects in the draft at that position, hence the header above thier names that says: "Top Draft Prospects"...

    I said the Pats MIGHT have a shot at them...

    The more succinct purpose of the post was to rank the Patriots pressing needs by position.

    By the way, you should head the advice of Oprah Winfrey, who said: "Say you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean..."

    ADPF
  17. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan Rookie

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    Basically, I was thinking right now, for this season, but if someone wanted to go a little deeper and project into the future, that would be cool reading, too...
  18. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Armen...are you going soft.? Just tell him to stuff it up his ass:)
  19. ilduce06410

    ilduce06410 Rookie

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    bingo. in what order?

    belichick may have already walked away from this line of thinking.
    the team could use a true fullback. RT remains a mystery, even with the arrival of kaczur.
    still need someone to take a crack at ted johnson's role.
    there are a couple of bruschi-type maniac ILBs out nthere.
  20. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan Rookie

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    I'm trying out this new "kinder, gentler me" thing!
  21. Armen Da Pats Fan

    Armen Da Pats Fan Rookie

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    I find myself thinking of a true fullback all the time...a Gash / Rathman type...

    I love the smashmouth guy that leads the way for the shifty back and maybe catches one at the goal line for six now and then...

    But it seems the NFL has undergone a shift in thinking and you really don't see those guys anymore...

    Evryone's going for these tight ends that can also be H-backs...

    I don't even know if the true fullbacks are even around at the college level anymore, save for the Big Ten...

    ADPF
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2006
  22. tkayo

    tkayo Rookie

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    OLB: We need youth and speed here, 1st round draft pick
    WR : We need a big target who can block and get open, 1st day pick
    SS : Does anyone think Rodney's going to start game 1?
    CB : I think this entire position needs to be upgraded.
    ILB : There are still some FA LBs available that can fill this role, and I think Monty will improve.

    I think it's going to be far more difficult to end up with an elite OLB than drafting a WR or CB. It looks like there will be plenty of 2nd and 3rd round WR and CBs to choose from.
  23. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    More or less agree with the needs, but except for the RBs, none of these guys guys are top prospects for fullling those needs. All will be long gone before 21, and anyway, the Pats can only fill one of the needs in round one anyway. So I think your list is unrealistic.
  24. ilduce06410

    ilduce06410 Rookie

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    why use a FB when you can have a DT out there?

    the mass-media scouting report stuff i read sez this is not a good year for FBs.
    the logic in BB's thinking is clear. why use a 250-lb player to lead the runner when you can use a 300 pounder? IMO the answer is that the 300-pounders are not good blockers. they have no experience or reps at it. they tend to miss and pop out of the pile without touching anyone. BTW, didn't seymour get hurt last year on one of his FB escapades?
    remember what happened to klecko on that swing pass?
    in tday's nfl almost every team throws the ball to TEs, LBs, OTs, OGs, on the goal line. that, too, is killing the role of the FB.
    i notice that in the middle of the field BB brings in a senond or 3rd TE to play the role of the FB. the big guy will return---trends change in the nfl---but for now we'll see H-backs.
  25. Pats/Hokies Fan

    Pats/Hokies Fan Rookie

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    My hopes for the draft

    Day 1 Needs :
    LB, WR, CB, RB

    Day 2 Needs :
    TE (depth), OL (depth), K, DL (can never have enough)

    UDFA : LB, RB, FB, QB, K
  26. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Only two needs.

    There may be several nice-to-haves, but the only real need is for a starting quality LB and a #2 WR. Its not even clear these openings really exist, Caldwell and BJ will argue the starting WR opening; TBC and Beisel will argue the need for a starting LB opening.

    We will draft one of each in the day 1 of the draft, IMHO.

    I perceive the need for more than one LB and pickings are better for a LB in round 1 and 2. Able WRs candidates exsit in Round 3 and are there through round 4. That's where I expect to Patriots to get them.
  27. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1. Need to maintain the "Don't respond to need" strategy.
    2-5. See 1.

    I get all psyched on occasion trying to mentally fix what's wrong. Woo hoo, Brad Kassell, now that would be a Patriots FA! Woo hoo, Manny lawson! Now that would be a Patriots kinda draft prospect! Now let's get us a solid receiver prospect. No no wait, a shutdown corner. No hold on not this draft, let's get...

    Deion Branch may have a future in the Pats' front office. "We take what they give us," quoth he, in relation to the offense. The same goes for the front office. With some exceptions, they take what the draft gives them. Bumper crop of great left guards? Let's get one, now, cheap, at a low pick. Fantastic water boys? Get us one on day two.

    Needs? I don't see a position lacking a starter. I don't see a position gap that will destroy us. Now with that in mind... what is the best value? Where is this draft deepest? What's the best player available?

    Those are the kinds of questions that factor into the decisions, and that (along with perceived "need") we have fuzzy understanding of at best. We don't know how the Pats will change to accomodate a talent that can fit... we don't know who they think will and will not fit. Dillon taught me that one.

    But if there's one thing we do know, it's that need has always been secondary to value, maybe tertiary to value and fit, for the Pats.

    Uh but my money is on linebacker (good thing it's monopoly money.)

    PFnV

    :blahblah:
  28. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi Rookie

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    maybe you and bf80 can share a nice chardonnay together

    :woohoo:
  29. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There were five areas hit hard by injury last season - Secondary, Linebacker, Offensive Line, Running Back, Special Teams.

    BB/SP have brought in veteran safeties and cornerbacks to improve the competition in the secondary: safety - Harrison, Wilson, Sanders, G.Scott, Ventrone, Mitchell, Jones. CB - Samuel, Hobbs, Gay, Warfield, Hawkins, Poteat, Spann, C.Scott.

    We have a starting offensive line, and some reserve experience, but we don't have a great deal of depth at tackle: Light, Kaczur, Gorin, Britt, Roehl. We're better off at G/C: Mankins, Neal, Koppin, Hochstein, Mruczkowski, Tucker, Yates, Steitz.

    Linebacker: We have starters for 3 slots, with ILB the hardest to fill. Bruschi, Vrabel, Colvin, Banta-Cain, Beisel, Claridge, Izzo, Davis, Alexander

    Running Back: Dillon for power running, Faulk for passing downs, Pass can do either and lead block, Evans power running, Charles.

    Special Teams: Izzo, Davis, Mitchell, Jones, Banta-Cain, Beisel

    Start your shopping in the trenches: An OT competes with Britt, Gorin, and Roehl and provides depth at OG. An OC/OG is a 2007 need with Koppin, Hochstein, Mruczkowski, and Tucker all UFA in 2007. 2 picks.

    CB is evenly split between youth and experience, but weighs heavily to youth if you consider Hawkins and C.Scott as better safeties then CB at this point in their career. Veteran CBs are slim pickings, but top CB talent in the draft isn't. 1, maybe 2 picks.

    Linebacker: Pats like to take around 10 LBs to start the season, they've got 9, only 3 of the 9 can be considered solid. 2-3 picks

    Runningback: Dillon and Faulk are checking out old folk's homes and Charles is on IR in Europe. 1-2 picks

    Special Teams: PR/KR - 1 pick, possibly combined with CB, RB, WR

    That is a minimum six picks: OT, OC/OG, CB, 2 LB, RB, plus the gaping hole at WR 1-2 picks

    What to shop for:

    OT - someone to push Britt for the swing tackle job.
    OC/OG - Reserve/Practice Squad/2007 starter
    CB - Nickelback/PR/KR/Practice Squad
    RB - Practice Squad/PR/KR
    LB - 2-3 DE/OLB for Special Teams and 3-4 development
    STs - PR/KR, LB/SS
    WR - possession receiver to complement Branch, PR/KR
  30. tuckeverlasting

    tuckeverlasting Rookie

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    rb may not be a pressing need, but i see value in the middle of the first rd for a stud runner.

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