Ranking the Patriots Draft needs

[FredFromDartmouth]

How do you rank the Patriots needs going into the draft?

Here is my take, but the Patriots needs are more fluid than any time I can remember, depending on the health of recovering players and FA's that are signed.

1) WR. The Patriots were playing with the Junior Varsity at WR this season. Dobson showed the ability to get open, but dropped too many balls. The Patriots need a defense stretcher.

2) Safety. The Tavon Wilson gamble did not pay off and the Patriots still need to pair someone with McCourty. Adrian Wilson looked like a bone crusher before his injury; not sure if he will be back.

3) Nose Tackle. It all depends on whether Vince will renegotiate his contract and get into shape. I would not count on the latter. I have a sneaking suspicion that NT will be the Patriots first choice, much to the groans of Patriots draftniks on draft day (actually the Patriots will trade back to Day Two of the draft).

4) TE. The Patriots cannot count on Gronk for a full season. They need depth here.

5) CB. Depth is needed here. That Patriots were highly vulnerable when Talib is not in the game. If a quality CB is available at 29, they have to take him.

6) Offensive line. With no more Scar, the Patriots will no longer be able to make lemonade out of lemons so they need an upgrade here.

 

[mayoclinic]

WR doesn't make my top 6:

1a. DT.

1b. TE

1c. Rotational DE

4. Interior OL

5. Safety

6. Depth at CB

7. More athleticism and coverage ability at LB

And that's assuming that the Pats' re-sign Talib.

 

[everlong]

WR doesn't make my top 6:

1a. DT.

1b. TE

1c. Rotational DE

4. Safety

5. Depth at CB

6. More athleticism and coverage ability at LB

And that's assuming that the Pats' re-sign Talib.

More or less what I would say except I would almost combind safety and more coverage at LB into one unit. Smaller faster more athletic LB or a bigger safety who's still fluid and can pack a punch. One or the other, if you can pull off both while taking care of the higher items bonus, and I'd put it as 1D.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

WR doesn't make my top 6:

1a. DT.

1b. TE

1c. Rotational DE

4. Safety

5. Depth at CB

6. More athleticism and coverage ability at LB

And that's assuming that the Pats' re-sign Talib.

Yeah, I am fine with no WR in the top six. I would much rather that the Patriots sign someone as a FA instead of draft a WR. Besides, maybe the young guys can develop.

It is one of those years that Patriots have needs at so many positions that they should remain flexible on draft day (day 2 for sure) and get the best available at at need positions as the draft develops.

TE is huge and may be the their first pick.

 

[mayoclinic]

More or less what I would say except I would almost combind safety and more coverage at LB into one unit. Smaller faster more athletic LB or a bigger safety who's still fluid and can pack a punch. One or the other, if you can pull off both while taking care of the higher items bonus, and I'd put it as 1D.

Actually, I left out the obvious interior OL, which I'd rank #4. I can only plead that I'm sick, and not thinking very coherently (as opposed to not sick, and not thinking very coherently).

 

[mayoclinic]

More or less what I would say except I would almost combind safety and more coverage at LB into one unit. Smaller faster more athletic LB or a bigger safety who's still fluid and can pack a punch. One or the other, if you can pull off both while taking care of the higher items bonus, and I'd put it as 1D.

I personally agree with that. Christian Jones and Calvin Pryor, please.

 

[ashley]

How do you rank the Patriots needs going into the draft?

Here is my take, but the Patriots needs are more fluid than any time I can remember, depending on the health of recovering players and FA's that are signed.

1) WR. The Patriots were playing with the Junior Varsity at WR this season. Dobson showed the ability to get open, but dropped too many balls. The Patriots need a defense stretcher.

2) Safety. The Tavon Wilson gamble did not pay off and the Patriots still need to pair someone with McCourty. Adrian Wilson looked like a bone crusher before his injury; not sure if he will be back.

3) Nose Tackle. It all depends on whether Vince will renegotiate his contract and get into shape. I would not count on the latter. I have a sneaking suspicion that NT will be the Patriots first choice, much to the groans of Patriots draftniks on draft day (actually the Patriots will trade back to Day Two of the draft).

4) TE. The Patriots cannot count on Gronk for a full season. They need depth here.

5) CB. Depth is needed here. That Patriots were highly vulnerable when Talib is not in the game. If a quality CB is available at 29, they have to take him.

6) Offensive line. With no more Scar, the Patriots will no longer be able to make lemonade out of lemons so they need an upgrade here.

I would say these are the top draft needs:

1) Defensive Line- We need to get more pressure on the quarterback and I would definitely use either a 1st or second round pick on one.

2) Safety- I just don't think we can go into next season with Gregory as our starting safety. Let's get bigger and more physical at that position and if we can get one of the top ones in the draft, I wouldn't mind spending a first or a second round pick on one. (preferably Pryor)

3) Tight End- I am anticipating us signing one in free agency, but if we were to choose one in the third round, I'd be fine with that. If we don't sign anyone in free agency, then I'd even be ok with double dipping. This is a major area of need.

4) Center/Guard- I am tired of seeing Wendell getting beat by D-lineman and I'm not a big Connelly fan either.

5) Cornerback- I am hoping we resign Talib and if we do, then we can make this a later round selection. I think with Talib, we have a solid 1-4 corner group as long as Arington stays in the slot. I don't like him on the outside.


The areas of need I don't think we need to address at all:

1-wr-
2-rb
3-tackle

 

[manxman2601]

I would say these are the top draft needs:

1) Defensive Line- We need to get more pressure on the quarterback and I would definitely use either a 1st or second round pick on one.

2) Safety- I just don't think we can go into next season with Gregory as our starting safety. Let's get bigger and more physical at that position and if we can get one of the top ones in the draft, I wouldn't mind spending a first or a second round pick on one. (preferably Pryor)

3) Tight End- I am anticipating us signing one in free agency, but if we were to choose one in the third round, I'd be fine with that. If we don't sign anyone in free agency, then I'd even be ok with double dipping. This is a major area of need.

4) Center/Guard- I am tired of seeing Wendell getting beat by D-lineman and I'm not a big Connelly fan either.

5) Cornerback- I am hoping we resign Talib and if we do, then we can make this a later round selection. I think with Talib, we have a solid 1-4 corner group as long as Arington stays in the slot. I don't like him on the outside.


The areas of need I don't think we need to address at all:

1-wr-
2-rb
3-tackle

Sorry to keep disagreeing with you but I do think there is some late round need for OT and RB. I'd like Cannon to move to RG and considering Vollmers injury issues, having a backup RT would be useful. Boston College's Matt Patchan looks to be a good Patriot's fit. And at RB, Ridley and Vereen are out of contract at the end of the year, Blount is unsigned and we don't have a Vereen backup. It's position that needs to be addressed somehow someway this off-season.

I do agree though that neither position is a major need and doesn't necessarily need to be addressed through the draft.

 

[manxman2601]

For me:

1. Tight End x2

2. Backup pass rusher.

3. Defensive Tackle

4. Interior OL

5. Greater defensive speed ( from wherever).

 

[ashley]

Sorry to keep disagreeing with you but I do think there is some late round need for OT and RB. I'd like Cannon to move to RG and considering Vollmers injury issues, having a backup RT would be useful. Boston College's Matt Patchan looks to be a good Patriot's fit. And at RB, Ridley and Vereen are out of contract at the end of the year, Blount is unsigned and we don't have a Vereen backup. It's position that needs to be addressed somehow someway this off-season.

I do agree though that neither position is a major need and doesn't necessarily need to be addressed through the draft.

Manx, no problem about disagreeing, it's what makes this board so much fun!!! I love the different points of view from so many knowledgeable posters.
I was thinking about Cannon at guard as well but if we move him there, then we will definitely have to address the tackle position. I was thinking we select a guard or center in the draft and have Cannon as the 3rd tackle where I think he played pretty well.

 

[manxman2601]

Manx, no problem about disagreeing, it's what makes this board so much fun!!! I love the different points of view from so many knowledgeable posters.
I was thinking about Cannon at guard as well but if we move him there, then we will definitely have to address the tackle position. I was thinking we select a guard or center in the draft and have Cannon as the 3rd tackle where I think he played pretty well.

That is probably the most likely scenario and I agree that he played pretty well. I just have this Mankins-Mack-Cannon interior OL in my mind which makes me salivate.

 

[ashley]

For me:

1. Tight End x2

2. Backup pass rusher.

3. Defensive Tackle

4. Interior OL

5. Greater defensive speed ( from wherever).

You forgot Safety lol. Question for you, if Pryor is sitting there with our first round pick and a tight end that you really like is gone(Ebron, Asj and Amero) would you consider Pryor or go defensive line with the pick?

 

[manxman2601]

You forgot Safety lol. Question for you, if Pryor is sitting there with our first round pick and a tight end that you really like is gone(Ebron, Asj and Amero) would you consider Pryor or go defensive line with the pick?

1. I don't see safety as a need so probably not.

2. However, because I haven't seen safety as a need, I haven't studied him as closely as I should. I think I'll revisit him this weekend (Marcus Martin too) to see what others see in him.

3. If people want a headbanger at safety they should take a look at Nickoe Whitley of Miss St and him blowing up monster RG Larry Warford and then still making the tackle helmet less and forcing the fumble. 4:41 in the below vid

Nickoe Whitley vs South Carolina and Kentucky - YouTube

Edit: you might want to check the very next play too.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

It is very difficult to pick out individual players that the Patriots will pick, but we can sometimes pick position and I think that their needs are:

1 TE.

2 DT.

3 Safety

 

[mayoclinic]

Greater defensive speed ( from wherever).

:woohoo::cheer2::hug::flypig:

 

[manxman2601]

:woohoo::cheer2::hug::flypig:

I'm nt sure whether you think this means I've converted or whether you are just in a particularly jolly and celebratory mood ( ) but I've been wanting more defensive speed all off season, hence my interest in Smith, Roby and Donald.

Just watched Christian Jones for the first time. I can see why you like him - top notch athleticism - but I would question his instincts and missed tackles. I think he will be outstanding on more aggressive defenses, I think he'd be less good on the more disciplined Patriots*. For me he's a lesser Alec Ogletree although he does have some traits that better Ogletree like pass coverage. I saw that Watkins play you talked about. Certainly showcased his athleticism.

* I realise that you want the Pats to become one of those aggressive defenses.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm not sure whether you think this means I've converted or whether you are just in a particularly jolly and celebratory mood ( ) but I've been wanting more defensive speed all off season, hence my interest in Smith, Roby and Donald.

Just watched Christian Jones for the first time. I can see why you like him - top notch athleticism - but I would question his instincts and missed tackles. I think he will be outstanding on more aggressive defenses, I think he'd be less good on the more disciplined Patriots*. For me he's a lesser Alec Ogletree although he does have some traits that better Ogletree like pass coverage. I saw that Watkins play you talked about. Certainly showcased his athleticism.

* I realise that you want the Pats to become one of those aggressive defenses.

Jones to me is a bit like Jamie Collins in that he's been moved around so much that he hasn't had a chance to develop his instincts or technique. But I think that his combination of coverage ability and his ability to take on and work through blockers separates him from Ogletree and Van Noy.

I want the Pats to be more aggressive, but not undisciplined. I could see Jones taking half a season to get his "sea legs", but it would be well worth it.

And I'm still fully on board the Marcus Smith train. I'd love to get both.

 

[manxman2601]

Jones to me is a bit like Jamie Collins in that he's been moved around so much that he hasn't had a chance to develop his instincts or technique. But I think that his combination of coverage ability and his ability to take on and work through blockers separates him from Ogletree and Van Noy.

I want the Pats to be more aggressive, but not undisciplined. I could see Jones taking half a season to get his "sea legs", but it would be well worth it.

And I'm still fully on board the Marcus Smith train. I'd love to get both.

I know it's not the same thing but Van Noy has Lavonte David instincts so I'm less concerned about his ability to take on blockers. I thought Jones was much better going backwards than he was forward or sideways. I did only watch three games though so I'll give him a better look.

 

[mayoclinic]

I know it's not the same thing but Van Noy has Lavonte David instincts so I'm less concerned about his ability to take on blockers. I thought Jones was much better going backwards than he was forward or sideways. I did only watch three games though so I'll give him a better look.

I agree that Kyle Van Noy has rare instincts similar to Lavonte David; but even though Van Noy is 244# and David was around 232# coming out, David has much more core strength and ability to take on and fight through blockers instead of trying to run around them. That combination was what had me so ridiculously high on David, who I called the best defensive player in the 2012 draft; and with all due respect to Luke Kuechly, I still think he is. Van Noy is much less physical.

Christian Jones doesn't have the instincts right now, but I think that's a product of being moved around and changing defensive coaches the way Jamie Collins did. He has the athleticism, and the strength.

It's hard with ultra-athletic guys to sometimes factor in how quickly their athleticism allows them to progress if they are motivated enough. I made that mistake 3 years ago with JJ Watt, looking too much at early footage of him - he had great athleticism, but he was very awkward at times, and he moved much better going forward or back then he did laterally. Obviously, he worked through those issues rather quickly. If Jones has the motor and proper coaching, I think he would get much more fluid, though instincts like those of David and Van Noy can't generally be taught. It's is worth noting that Jones' teammate Telvin Smith is considerably more instinctive, so it may not all be coaching.

But I would be absurdly happy with either guy.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

I agree that Kyle Van Noy has rare instincts similar to Lavonte David; but even though Van Noy is 244# and David was around 232# coming out, David has much more core strength and ability to take on and fight through blockers instead of trying to run around them. That combination was what had me so ridiculously high on David, who I called the best defensive player in the 2012 draft; and with all due respect to Luke Kuechly, I still think he is.

I remember that.