Ranking NFL team's front offices

[feelthepain]

Vinatieri was a 50% FG kicker beyond 40 yards and hadn't hit a 50 yarder in 3 years.

Case in point, during last years playoff game in Denver, the Patriots were about at 35 yard line or so. Instead of kicking a FG, they opted to go for it. BB knew something.

Everybody appreciates what Adam did for the Pats in the past, but, as BB says, it's better to let a player go a year early than a year late.

This is the best argument I've seen on this subject to date, but it doesn't change what Adam has done or his importance to the Pats success in the last 5 years.

 

[Willie55]

Gostkowski may prove to be a HOF'er but he's not been in one single pressure kick in the NFL.

I guess you didn't hear about the kick in mini-camp.

 

[Willie55]

This is the best argument I've seen on this subject to date, but it doesn't change what Adam has done or his importance to the Pats success in the last 5 years.

That is the past though. Teams that live in past and stick w/older players out of sentimentality end up 4-12 and with the first pick in the draft.

 

[pats1]

Vinatieri was a 50% FG kicker beyond 40 yards and hadn't hit a 50 yarder in 3 years.

Case in point, during last years playoff game in Denver, the Patriots were about at 35 yard line or so. Instead of kicking a FG, they opted to go for it. BB knew something.

Everybody appreciates what Adam did for the Pats in the past, but, as BB says, it's better to let a player go a year early than a year late.

And don't forget about that 43 yarder he missed in the 4th quarter of the Denver game which would have put the Pats one possession away from tying it.

 

[feelthepain]

That is the past though. Teams that live in past and stick w/older players out of sentimentality end up 4-12 and with the first pick in the draft.

No one is saying you have to wait till a player is past their prime. But Adam isn't past his prime. He is a player that isn't rattled by pressure and when the big game is on the line he's clutch. That's a loss for the Pats at this point, maybe in three years it will be different, but we are talking about here and now, it's a loss for the Pats plain and simple.

 

[Tunescribe]

No my assumptiom is Adam is arguably the best kicker in the NFL, Gostkowski may prove to be a HOF'er but he's not been in one single pressure kick in the NFL. If you were to go into a huge game and you needed the three points to win who would you want to kick that fieldgoal?? I think if you took a poll across the nation Aadam would top the list, you honestly don't see that??

Based on what Adam has done to date, sure. But apparently BB didn't think he was indispensable and let him go for what I'm sure are sound reasons. Adam may very well be on the downslide (he missed an important kick in the playoffs against Denver, remember). Losing Adam was disappointing for sentimental reasons, but whether it makes a difference on the field in 2006 is yet to be seen.

 

[feelthepain]

And don't forget about that 43 yarder he missed in the 4th quarter of the Denver game which would have put the Pats one possession away from tying it.

Didn't Bardy ever ovethrow a WR?? In a key situation?? You seem to be looking awful hard to find Adams flaws. Who's to say if Adam would have made the 43 yard kick NE would have been able to score again?? You're really stretching on this one.

 

[drpatriot]

I know you guy's think all you need is Brady to win every single SB, but Adam was clutch and he will be missed. Not just a little!

I love how my fellow Pats fans are blasting this guy so much. I urge everyone to take off the rose-colored glasses (don't think that doesn't include you too, feelthepain) and look at this objectively.

Though I don't think that we will miss him as much as people think, the fact is that he WAS a really important part of our Super Bowl run so far. If both Gostkowski and Gramatica struggle (which I believe most Pats fans, including myself, see as an unlikely possibility), we WILL miss him. We will probably miss him a little even if one of the two aforementioned kickers plays well. It has not been frequent that rookie kickers have played well immediately in the NFL, so despite all of the good vibes, I still have my doubts.

As others have stated, the kicker only comes on the field four or five times a game. However, these four or five times are all EXTREMELY important as they either determine the field position for the opposing team*, or earn us between one and three points. If a kicker cannot perform well in this setting, the team itself will not perform well in this setting. Missed field goals resulted in many of the Cowboys' losses last year, and if this scenario occurs here, however unlikely, we will struggle in the same way that they did.

*I realize that other players on the field are also important, but the kicker's placement of the ball is an extremely key role.

 

[pats1]

No one is saying you have to wait till a player is past their prime. But Adam isn't past his prime.

What?!?!?!

 

[QuiGon]

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/15067096.htm.

Before I clicked on this link, I said to myself "If this writer has any clue whatsoever or expects to be taken seriously, he better have Detroit at the very bottom." So I gotta salute the writer..!!

"32. . . . Detroit . . . Matt Millen . .. . Averaging nearly 12 defeats per season in Millen's five years."

 

[Willie55]

I love how my fellow Pats fans are blasting this guy so much. I urge everyone to take off the rose-colored glasses (don't think that doesn't include you too, feelthepain) and look at this objectively.

Though I don't think that we will miss him as much as people think, the fact is that he WAS a really important part of our Super Bowl run so far. If both Gostkowski and Gramatica struggle (which I believe most Pats fans, including myself, see as an unlikely possibility), we WILL miss him. We will probably miss him a little even if one of the two aforementioned kickers plays well. It has not been frequent that rookie kickers have played well immediately in the NFL, so despite all of the good vibes, I still have my doubts.

As others have stated, the kicker only comes on the field four or five times a game. However, these four or five times are all EXTREMELY important as they either determine the field position for the opposing team*, or earn us between one and three points. If a kicker cannot perform well in this setting, the team itself will not perform well in this setting. Missed field goals resulted in many of the Cowboys' losses last year, and if this scenario occurs here, however unlikely, we will struggle in the same way that they did.

*I realize that other players on the field are also important, but the kicker's placement of the ball is an extremely key role.

Who's blasting him. Personally I said everybody appreciates what he did. But there was an obvious decline in his kick-offs and field goals.

 

[coltshater]

Oh ok, find a post where I don't give Brady or BB credit.

It isn't that you haven't given TB and BB credit, it is the overstating AV contributions. Adam made the kicks he had to make after his teammates put him in the position to do so.

 

[pats1]

I love how my fellow Pats fans are blasting this guy so much. I urge everyone to take off the rose-colored glasses (don't think that doesn't include you too, feelthepain) and look at this objectively.

Though I don't think that we will miss him as much as people think, the fact is that he WAS a really important part of our Super Bowl run so far. If both Gostkowski and Gramatica struggle (which I believe most Pats fans, including myself, see as an unlikely possibility), we WILL miss him. We will probably miss him a little even if one of the two aforementioned kickers plays well. It has not been frequent that rookie kickers have played well immediately in the NFL, so despite all of the good vibes, I still have my doubts.

As others have stated, the kicker only comes on the field four or five times a game. However, these four or five times are all EXTREMELY important as they either determine the field position for the opposing team*, or earn us between one and three points. If a kicker cannot perform well in this setting, the team itself will not perform well in this setting. Missed field goals resulted in many of the Cowboys' losses last year, and if this scenario occurs here, however unlikely, we will struggle in the same way that they did.

The same thing can be said with any loss of a player. It's always about him versus his replacement, when in reality that's not the entire picture.

Take Wilson replacing Milloy, Gay/Samuel/Hobbs replacing Poole/Law, Koppen/Mankins replacing Woody/Andruzzi, etc. The replacements didn't stack up to their predecessors, but they brought a new dynamic to the game to a team that can adjust to change seemingly at the snap of a finger.

*I realize that other players on the field are also important, but the kicker's placement of the ball is an extremely key role.

And Adam was hurting us in that department lately. His kickoffs were suffering.

 

[drpatriot]

The same thing can be said with any loss of a player. It's always about him versus his replacement, when in reality that's not the entire picture.

Take Wilson replacing Milloy, Gay/Samuel/Hobbs replacing Poole/Law, Koppen/Mankins replacing Woody/Andruzzi, etc. The replacements didn't stack up to their predecessors, but they brought a new dynamic to the game to a team that can adjust to change seemingly at the snap of a finger.

This may be true with offensive/defensive players, but not with kickers. A kicker's performance is vastly more individual than any other player's. Also, the only new dynamics which a kicker can bring are better kickoffs and clutchness. Vinatraitor had both of these.

And Adam was hurting us in that department lately. His kickoffs were suffering.

This is a common misconception. Vinatieri's kickoff stats last year were only a half a yard worse than his career stats. He also had a career high in touchbacks (10), which shows that he still has good leg strength.

Ten characters.

 

[Ring 6]

What I'm saying is Adam is as important to the Pats wins as Brady was or BB or Dillion. I'm not the one saying Adam won't be missed, Pat fans are.

That is just a ridiculous statement. The kicker is not as important as the Qb, coach or RB, by any definition.
Look a great kicker makes his kicks and gets those opportunities because 11 players on the field do well. Put Vinatieri in Arizona the last 5 years, and do they win anything? Of course not. Put BB or Brady there and maybe they still don't buit the chances are a whole lot better.

You are way too wrapped up in the guy that does the routine thing to culminate what the rest of the team set him up to do.
A kicker is paid to make kicks. Good ones make 90% of them. Bad ones make 80%. Tom Brady meant a hell of a lot more in 3 SB wins than the guy who converted 3 times what a bad player is 80% at. Vinatieri missed some also in SBs.
The kick that sent the snow bowl into OT was legendary. Vinatieri may have been the only man on the planet who could have done it. However, he never gets that chance without Brady. The rest of the FGs that Vinatieri contributed to the cause were routine, but clutch.
The common sentiment is that the Patriots are going to need a routine kick to win a Sb and instead of Vinatieri they will wheel a quadrapalegic in. They will send out a competant professional who is capable of and expected to convert something that is an 80% proposition.

 

[Ring 6]

What do you think would have been the results in the Indy game last year had Adam kicked the field goal in the game against Pittsburgh rather then Vanderchoke?? I think Pittsburgh wouldn't have been in the SB last year. When the game is on the line and you need the kick to win the game Adam is clearly the man you want kicking the ball. If you think that's not as important to wins and losses as any part of a teams game then you're lying to yourself.

If Brady had been the QB, he would have given Vanderjagt a makable FG. (Wouldnt have played so poorly they fell behind also)

 

[Ring 6]

No one is saying you have to wait till a player is past their prime. But Adam isn't past his prime. He is a player that isn't rattled by pressure and when the big game is on the line he's clutch. That's a loss for the Pats at this point, maybe in three years it will be different, but we are talking about here and now, it's a loss for the Pats plain and simple.

Every team sustains losses every year, and makes gains in other areas.
This is a minor loss, its a KICKER.

 

[Mike the Brit]

So everytime I post my opinon it's smack??? Why don't you make up a few more rules that only apply to non Pat fans. I was giving a Pat player credit and all you see is smack. Why don't you go out of your way to find trouble.

You've turned a discussion of front offices into yet another discussion of how much of a loss was Vinatieri. Congratulations, troll!

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Mike the Brit: I hear you on that!

 

[feelthepain]

You've turned a discussion of front offices into yet another discussion of how much of a loss was Vinatieri. Congratulations, troll!

I forgot I'm the only one posting in this thread.