Randy Moss is Worth a First Pick, Easily.

[salty]

Sorry to be blunt, but some of you guys are really stupid. Randy Moss is an albatross around the Raiders' neck. They are stuck with his huge contract, which is not only a waste of money, but also is really messing up their cap situation. And all that for what? A guy who hasn't done much of anything since 2003, and openly admits that he "doesn't care."

The Raiders should be desperate to off load him. I'd say a 4th or 5th round pick would be about the right asking price, but Randy would have to agree to a major re-structuring of his contract first. Plus, that assumes the Pats even want him at all, which I think they do not.

So lets stop with the g0ddamn Randy Moss threads, alright?

 

[shirtsleeve]

Sorry to be blunt, but some of you guys are really stupid. Randy Moss is an albatross around the Raiders' neck. They are stuck with his huge contract, which is not only a waste of money, but also is really messing up their cap situation. And all that for what? A guy who hasn't done much of anything since 2003, and openly admits that he "doesn't care."

The Raiders should be desperate to off load him. I'd say a 4th or 5th round pick would be about the right asking price, but Randy would have to agree to a major re-structuring of his contract first. Plus, that assumes the Pats even want him at all, which I think they do not.

So lets stop with the g0ddamn Randy Moss threads, alright?

Thanks, Salty. Again.

 

[evendelae]

Randy Moss not only makes Brady Better, He makes Watson, Maroney, Welker all Much Better, Not too mention the O-Cordinator look like a Genius. When Randy Is on his game, he can change the way a D-fence plays us, like no other player can.

If Welker is worth a second and Branch is worth a First.

I say a chance that Moss Could Live up to his talent is Worth a First, Easily.

Randy Moss against Champ Bailey this year:
1 catch 8 yards.

 

[Return of the Nizz]

Randy Moss against Champ Bailey this year:
1 catch 8 yards.

Randy Moss' QB against Champ Bailey this year: Andrew Walter.

I'm ambivalent about all the Moss rumors but I saw that game. Walter is terrible.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Randy Moss against Champ Bailey this year:
1 catch 8 yards.

First I'm don't want to see Moss come here, but his qb was Andrew Walter and Aaron Brooks. Champ Bailey is the best cb in the league.

One game can't be a fair assessment of his performance.

Did champ cover him the entire time? were they playing zone or mancoverage? how often did the raiders throw to him? did they put him in motion?

 

[evendelae]

First I'm don't want to see Moss come here, but his qb was Andrew Walter and Aaron Brooks. Champ Bailey is the best cb in the league.

One game can't be a fair assessment of his performance.

Did champ cover him the entire time? were they playing zone or mancoverage? how often did the raiders throw to him? did they put him in motion?

Champ Bailey burned Moss really good in that game. I don't have the game on Tivo, so I don't know what they were running for most of the game, but the particular play I'm thinking of was man coverage. Champ generally just lines up at LCB and covers who is there, instead of following the #1, but I think he was covering Moss for the vast majority of the game. I am a Bronco fan, so choose to believe me or not, but Champ Bailey ran better routes than Moss and got INT's because of it. It wasn't hard work like his INT against Cinci. Moss is washed up. He used to be a good player, but I think he just doesn't care anymore. I hope you guys don't pick him up, because I like having him in the AFC West as a doormat for the Broncos D. Jerry Porter is better than Moss at this point, imo.

So, surprisingly, there was an interception last year which was not the QB's fault!

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Champ Bailey burned Moss really good in that game. I don't have the game on Tivo, so I don't know what they were running for most of the game, but the particular play I'm thinking of was man coverage. Champ generally just lines up at LCB and covers who is there, instead of following the #1, but I think he was covering Moss for the vast majority of the game. I am a Bronco fan, so choose to believe me or not, but Champ Bailey ran better routes than Moss and got INT's because of it. It wasn't hard work like his INT against Cinci. Moss is washed up. He used to be a good player, but I think he just doesn't care anymore. I hope you guys don't pick him up, because I like having him in the AFC West as a doormat for the Broncos D. Jerry Porter is better than Moss at this point, imo.

So, surprisingly, there was an interception last year which was not the QB's fault!

ya I think Moss is washed up too. Hasn't been good for three years.

 

[koolaid23]

Champ Bailey burned Moss really good in that game. I don't have the game on Tivo, so I don't know what they were running for most of the game, but the particular play I'm thinking of was man coverage. Champ generally just lines up at LCB and covers who is there, instead of following the #1, but I think he was covering Moss for the vast majority of the game. I am a Bronco fan, so choose to believe me or not, but Champ Bailey ran better routes than Moss and got INT's because of it. It wasn't hard work like his INT against Cinci. Moss is washed up. He used to be a good player, but I think he just doesn't care anymore. I hope you guys don't pick him up, because I like having him in the AFC West as a doormat for the Broncos D. Jerry Porter is better than Moss at this point, imo.

So, surprisingly, there was an interception last year which was not the QB's fault!

dillon was the same way. you get sick of losing. you get sick of the players not caring, the coaches or the front office. whats the point of running great routes all day long if you know the ball is never coming cause the quarterback is on the ground all game long. look im not a randy moss fan, but anyone that says that if he were to sign here, he wouldnt greatly help us is an idiot. we would have a deep threat. and teams would have to respect our passing game. now they know the receivers wont beat them so they either stuff the run or blitz the he'll out of brady. a couple play action passes 50 yards down the field to moss and all the sudden its 6-7 in the box as opposed to 8-9. then brady and maroney will pick them apart all day long.

 

[iguide]

No he is not worth a #1. He is to lazy and he has a history of quiting.

 

[BradyManny]

you cant tell me that is a telling stat though. ken walters? aaron brooks? kerry collins? the o-line in oakland? lack of a run game? these are all problems that are non-existant in NE. is he not worth a first if he brings in 1300 yards and 12 touchdowns?

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts everyday would be XMas.

And his dip of production doesn't simply trace back to Oakland. Nate Burleson outproduced him in 04, by about 20 catches and 250 yards. In fact, he solid season in 05 for Oakland, but 2 out of 3 mediocre seasons is enough to convince me he's not what he once was.

 

[koolaid23]

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts everyday would be XMas.

And his dip of production doesn't simply trace back to Oakland. Nate Burleson outproduced him in 04, by about 20 catches and 250 yards. In fact, he solid season in 05 for Oakland, but 2 out of 3 mediocre seasons is enough to convince me he's not what he once was.

are u talking about 2004? you left out the fact that he missed 3 games due to a hamstring injury while burleson played all 16. you also left out the fact that he still managed to score 13 touchdowns in those 13 games. while burleson had 9...in 16 games. you cant call it a bad year if he gets hurt. i would love one of our wideouts to play only 13 games and have 13 touchdowns. of course hes not what he once was...in 1998. 9 years ago? who was? but hes still better then any receiver we have on the roster.

 

[BradyManny]

are u talking about 2004? you left out the fact that he missed 3 games due to a hamstring injury while burleson played all 16. you also left out the fact that he still managed to score 13 touchdowns in those 13 games. while burleson had 9...in 16 games. you cant call it a bad year if he gets hurt. i would love one of our wideouts to play only 13 games and have 13 touchdowns. of course hes not what he once was...in 1998. 9 years ago? who was? but hes still better then any receiver we have on the roster.

Fine, over 16 games, its about 900 yards, still less than Burleson.

The point is, this guy is not the monster he once was, and his production isn't worth the headache he is, the contract he carries with him, or the draft picks required to get him. End of story.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

Sorry to be blunt, but some of you guys are really stupid.

Can I "Borgie" that for my sig?

 

[koolaid23]

Fine, over 16 games, its about 900 yards, still less than Burleson.

The point is, this guy is not the monster he once was, and his production isn't worth the headache he is, the contract he carries with him, or the draft picks required to get him. End of story.

no, its not the end of the story. if moss played those 3 games he prob would have come close to 1000 yards. and taken rec and yards from your buddy burleson... he wont be here if the contract isnt worked out, and im sure NE will protect themselves in case he turns into this "headache" your talking about. ask yourself, if we had moss in the AFC championship game this past year, dont you think we walk out of their heading to the super bowl?

 

[BradyManny]

no, its not the end of the story. if moss played those 3 games he prob would have come close to 1000 yards. and taken rec and yards from your buddy burleson... he wont be here if the contract isnt worked out, and im sure NE will protect themselves in case he turns into this "headache" your talking about. ask yourself, if we had moss in the AFC championship game this past year, dont you think we walk out of their heading to the super bowl?

If a quarter of the team didn't have the flu, we go to the Super Bowl. I don't like playing those hypotheticals...

Moss just isn't the piece I want to add to the puzzle for the price it requires. Its not that I don't like him as a player - if the price weren't so steep I'd be absolutely fine with him being on the Pats.

 

[PantsB]

Moss is
-A clubhouse cancer
-Lazy on the field
-An off the field (read criminal) problem
-Ridiculously overpaid and a nasty cap hit the Patriots could no longer absorb without cutting players
-Three years removed from a true #1 WR season
-30 and already well into his decline

and people want to give up a first for him?

Oh and
-He doesn't fit the Patriots WR mold: Poor route runner, relied on height/jump balls/physical dominance when he still had it, at his best wasn't that quick, a deep threat/vertical WR instead of a smurf.
-The Patriots aren't going to put that much emphasis on Moss: A 2nd and 7th for a perfect fit, young up-and-coming WR/KR like Welker is one thing, giving up salary cap space and a high draft pick for a declining (and declined) malcontent who doesn't fit your system anyway?

I wouldn't give up a 7th even if he restructured significantly. Gabriel wasn't enough of a hard worker/team guy for the Patriots and he was the best behaved out of the Oak WR.

 

[brdmaverick]

There is definitely a legit argument that he is worth a first round pick.

1.)Wide receivers are always a crapshoot. (Charles Rogers, Mike Williams, , etc.) the players drafted in 2001 have been around long enough for us to look back and judge their careers. In 2001 the following were drafted in the first round......David Terrell, Koren Robinson, Rod Gardner, Santana Moss, Freddie Mitchell, and Reggie Wayne, Of that group, Wayne and Moss were the only ones that weren't complete busts.

2.)As we have seen with Chad Jackson, rookie wide receivers are projects. We need a proven commodity in Randy Moss.

3.)The way the contracts are set up and with the big free agency pay days, most rookies will have contracts of four years. For a wide receiver, the first two years they are learning the NFL. Moss can give us three good seasons easily with no learning curve needed.

 

[PantsB]

There is definitely a legit argument that he is worth a first round pick.

1.)Wide receivers are always a crapshoot. (Charles Rogers, Mike Williams, , etc.) the players drafted in 2001 have been around long enough for us to look back and judge their careers. In 2001 the following were drafted in the first round......David Terrell, Koren Robinson, Rod Gardner, Santana Moss, Freddie Mitchell, and Reggie Wayne, Of that group, Wayne and Moss were the only ones that weren't complete busts.

2.)As we have seen with Chad Jackson, rookie wide receivers are projects. We need a proven commodity in Randy Moss.

3.)The way the contracts are set up and with the big free agency pay days, most rookies will have contracts of four years. For a wide receiver, the first two years they are learning the NFL. Moss can give us three good seasons easily with no learning curve needed.

Assertion 1- True.
Assertion 2A-True.
Assertion 2B- Does not follow. The Patriots have never needed to bring in a "proven commodity" WR to win a SB. Randy Moss is no longer a "proven commodity"
Assertion 3C-Moss hasn't had a very good season in three years. There is no reason to believe at 33 he will be playing like he did when he was 25. He does not know the Patriots offense and has never played in an offense remotely like it. Caldwell, Welker and Brown all had superior years to Moss last season. Branch did so the last two years (or in the last 3 if comparing seasons when they played double digit games).

Thats before we get into Moss's character and cost. It'd be a horrible decision and luckily one that will never happen.

 

[koolaid23]

Assertion 1- True.
Assertion 2A-True.
Assertion 2B- Does not follow. The Patriots have never needed to bring in a "proven commodity" WR to win a SB. Randy Moss is no longer a "proven commodity"
Assertion 3C-Moss hasn't had a very good season in three years. There is no reason to believe at 33 he will be playing like he did when he was 25. He does not know the Patriots offense and has never played in an offense remotely like it. Caldwell, Welker and Brown all had superior years to Moss last season. Branch did so the last two years (or in the last 3 if comparing seasons when they played double digit games).

Thats before we get into Moss's character and cost. It'd be a horrible decision and luckily one that will never happen.

where are u getting 33 from? the air? hes 30.your comparing receivers with one of the best QBs in the game to a rec that has had a rotation of 4 QBs in the last 2 years. of course we dont bring in moss if its a $11 million cap hit. but if he restructures then we do it with a big smile on our face. of course he dosnt know the patriots offense..news flash...wes welker dosnt know the patriot offense either...he will by preseason though.

 

[brady199]

I'm more interested in the player, not his production or lack of, because of the lack of talent around him, what did he do with culpepper.

how good would marvin harrison's numbers of been on the raiders last year?

how good would randy's numbers be if he was in indy last year?

Bottom Line - He Changes defences like no one ever has, not rice not harrison, not t.o. not even like stanley morgan.

so BRADYMANNY2334 Give it a Rest Already with the Numbers, his value goes way beyond that, your not going to find that in a stat book, so I'm gonna Tell You Again, Randy is the MAN!!!

Trust me I know his Numbers sucked I drafted Him with my second pick in fantasy football. so don't tell me how many guys outproduced him, it's nonsence. I'm talking about football, and your talkin rubish.