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Random Thoughts on Pats/Colts Take 2

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by aluminum seats, Nov 6, 2007.

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  1. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'm just reposting this because I took a bit of time w/it and then the thread got all weird--not that it's timeless prose or anything, but what the heck.
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    So much stuff going on in this game I thought I’d get a few of my thoughts down before doing too much reading—I’m sure there are some points here addressed elsewhere, but let me get some things out unfiltered.

    ---First, I will admit the game did not go as I expected, although I thought (and said) that the Colts likely have the best defense of any team the Pats will face. Couple that with the fact that these teams know each other so well by now, it’s almost like playing a divisional game. Basically, the Colts were controlling the lines, which is what football’s all about. The enormous amount of time Brady’s been having to throw wasn’t there, and the Colts weren’t blitzing to achieve it. Offensively, the first few plays of the Colts were a little scary, due to the ease they were running. We’ve seen a few teams run a few plays like that before the Pats tightened up, but the Colts continued to run with success.

    ---I didn’t understand—and maybe I’m wrong that they played it this way—but it didn’t look as though the Pats had Samuel on Wayne throughout the game. It seems to me that would have been the best way to take him out of the game, but there were a couple of big catches that Wayne made where it looked as though Hobbs was on him. If someone could explain that to me, please do.

    ---I have to admit that I’m a little disappointed in what we’re seeing from Thomas. I don’t really have anything negative to say about him, but I was expecting this guy to just make more plays—to put it in a simple way, I’d like to hear his name more during the game. I hope (and think) that he’ll continue to improve within the Pats’ D, but I thought he would be an immediate and huge difference-maker.

    ---The officiating was truly horrendous, to the point where I started to have dark thoughts about whether it was just incompetence. The pair of long pass interference calls against the Pats were awful—one was bad, the other was truly horrendous, while the non-call on the 3rd down play to Faulk was so egregious I thought Brady was gonna hit somebody. Just terrible. That’s not to mention the bizarre first down the Colts mysteriously had at the end of the first half when it clearly looked as though they had been stopped.

    ---Speaking of officials, kudos to Asante Samuel for his immediate reaction to the Colts’ reception the refs mistakenly says was in bounds—he instantly raced to the sideline to get the Pats to throw the red flag. But how sad is it that a player can so quickly get a call right when the ref can’t? I’m pretty sure Samuel has another job on the field, right?

    ---The receivers. What can you say about Moss, the guy is just sick. His one-handed grab in the middle of the third when the Pats were pinned down by their goal line was a huge play, as the Pats didn’t want to give the ball back to the Colts with good field position. Speaking of field position, Welker had one good punt return after another—he’s just a tremendous player. And was anyone else hit by the symmetry of the Pats needing to convert a 3rd and 4 play to run out the clock, and Welker—who many have compared to Troy Brown in his prime, running a great route for the game-clinching conversion, compared to the AFC championship game, when Brown’s confusion (or so it seemed) on his rout led the incompletion and the rest of it.

    ---On Brady’s jump ball pick, I was surprised his target was Stallworth. I was sure when he let it go it was going to Moss. I don’t think that’s Stallworth’s strength, so I don’t think we’ll see Brady make that kind of throw again.

    ---Last, it’s an obvious point but it seems to be forgotten a lot of times. Teams don’t stay the same over time, and when the Pats and Colts play in January (and yes, I think the rest of this season is 1. Can the Pats go undefeated, 2. I hope the Pats stay healthy, and 3. the Pats and the Colts meet for the real Superbowl in Foxboro in January) these teams will not be the same. Yes, Harrison will likely be back for the Colts, but more importantly to me, Belichek and Co. will have had time to analyze this new version of the Colts, Seymour should be fully back, Thomas totally at ease in his role, etc. Considering the fact that the Pats won in Indy, with terrible officiating, with that fluke TD at the end of the half (similar to a kickoff return td, etc.), I think the Patriots have reason to be hugely optimistic. One thing I’ve always noticed in sports is you don’t tend to get the same exact result twice. Many were expecting a blowout here, but it’s tough to blow out a good (great?) team like the Colts twice. Here’s to the blowout happening in January, or at least another win. And if the Pats DO go 19-0, nobody will be able to say that they didn’t have another team in the league to truly test them.
     
  2. He Ban Me

    He Ban Me Banned

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    Tired of the "fluke" TD BS. Everytime Brady rolls the dice and throws a jump ball for Moss, you could call it a "fluke". Relying on a 55 yarder game in and game out is no way to live.
     
  3. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Plus both teams will probably have a couple more guys out for the season, and a lot more physically limited in various ways.
     
  4. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    something BB said on WEEI caught my attention today

    http://allthingsbillbelichick.com/transcripts/2007/07nov05bigshow.htm

    So although the first half looked bad and outplayed. We actually moved the ball on them.
     
  5. solman

    solman Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    It is a "fluke" if its an event which is very unlikely to be repeat.

    Tom Brady and Randy Moss playing catch across half a football field is "typical" or "expected".
     
  6. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats In the Starting Line-Up

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    This is exactly right. The kind of jump ball to Moss has an expectation of success; a check-off pass to Addai is not expected to score a touchdown. They're not equivilent.

    I would agree that Moss' talent is a fluke. The guy is a freak of nature.
     
  7. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale In the Starting Line-Up

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    The Pats like Samuel at LCB and Hobbs at RCB. Wayne lines up at SE, opposite Hobbs. If the Pats played exclusively man coverage with their CBs, I could see them interchanging, but for the other coverages it appears that BB likes them to stay where they are.

    He played great vs. San Diego, stuffing LDT and playing great short middle coverage. I think the injury he suffered vs. Cleveland is a lot more painful than he and the team are letting on.

    I don't think the intent was to create a jump ball situation, but rather either a bad throw or a bad route (or both) just ended up causing it. Brady's roll right was supposed to draw the coverage in that direction, allowing Stallworth to break off his post to the backside corner. If Brady threw the ball deeper or Stallworth cut to the back corner (and Brady threw it there), it was an easy 6.

    I look forward to a rematch in Foxboro. As good as Freeney and Mathis are, I don't think Light and Kaczur play as poorly for the first three quarters as they did Sunday. Look at how the Pats moved the ball in the 4th quarter once Brady had protection...two TDs and killed the clock. Brady can try and draw the Colts offsides with hard counts rather than be forced to run a silent count. Light and Kaczur will be able to hear the snap count instead of wait until the ball is snapped or time their movements with the predetermined silent count.

    Regards,
    Chris
     
  8. Oswlek

    Oswlek In the Starting Line-Up

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    I just want to point out a couple things:

    2003
    38-34 coming down to the final play of the game
    24-14 in a game that really wasn't that close

    2004
    27-24 with a fumble recovery at the one and a missed FG at the end
    20-3 beatdown with little doubt as to who the better team was.

    2006
    20-27 in a game that really wasn't that close.
    34-38 coming down to the wire.

    In every other season that NE and Indy battled twice, NE's best game - by a wide margin - came in the second one. Yes, Indy is a much better team than they have ever been, but so is NE. I fully expect NE to handle Indy again despite how good they are.
     
  9. Oswlek

    Oswlek In the Starting Line-Up

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    While NE has had some tackling issues, there is no comparison between that play and a bomb to Moss.

    The fact that NE completes a long pass to Randy every game is a testament to how "unflukey" it is. Addai's may have a long play against NE next time, but he isn't going to be able to stroll down the field while NE defenders flop down by his feet.
     
  10. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Its not a fluke because they didnt execute the play and deserve the TD.
    Its a fluke because it was the longest of longshots, and if they hadn't converted it, they would have gone to halftime.

    If you ran that play to Barry Sanders, or whoever you want to fill in as the best ever, 10,000 times against the worst defense ever, he may score once. Thats the point, not just that it was a fluky play (which you have to admit) but that given the situation, the half was over otherwise.
    I've said myself that while the Hobbs pi call was horrendous (I am sure you agree with that) I don't consider it a gift of points, because it happened on first down. There is no valid assumption that without that bogus call you wouldnt have scored any way, but there is certainty that without the fluky Addai play you wouldn't have.

    Brady doesn't throw jumpballs. He throws to Moss when Moss has position, and he knows if Moss has position he is coming down with it.
     
  11. FrontSeven

    FrontSeven Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Somebody explained that as a screwup (probably Stallworth's) about what happens when a safety bites on that route. I guess Sanders did bite and Stallworth broke the route the wrong way.

    Or something like that. Whatever, it was a flesh wound compared to the carnage of last year.
     
  12. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    LOL, that's like saying relying on Tiger Woods hitting a clutch shot on the 18th hole is a fluke, or relying on Michael Jordan burying a fade-away jumper is a fluke. Moss is the king of jump ball receivers, there's nothing flukey about it. This guy can go up and get it.

    Brady has a player that can do that better than ANYONE ELSE IN THE LEAGUE, possibly ever, there's nothing flukey or chancey about that.
     
  13. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Complete ditto. For Moss, that's a TD. Brady threw a poor pass, Stallworth totally misplayed it, Bethea made a great play. 2 bad plays by Pats players, 1 good play by a Colts player = INT.

    If it's Moss, he makes up for Brady's poor throw and grabs that before Bethea can.
     
  14. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I don't understand why so many people overrate Samuel and underrate Hobbs to such a degree. Wayne had what like 5 catches for 60 yards? The in-cut that Marvin and Wayne run is almost impossible to defend, especially in man coverage. You can't bite on it because it's too risky (remember last year when Samuel bit and Marvin then proceeded to run back up field for a wide open TD).

    Hobbs is our best cover corner IMO. He sticks to his man and has great technique, though he can't always make up for his lack of height against some of the really tall WRs. Samuel is more of a risk taker with better instincts and ability to read the QB and jump the route.

    I'm fairly certain that Hobbs had CJ in the Bengals game for most of the game, even switching sides of the field with Samuel to stick with him (though I do believe they did have double coverage on CJ the whole time too, Hobbs stuck on him like glue).


    Covering the Colts WR's is no easy task, and not just because they are great, but because of Manning, their OC, their scheme etc... Both Hobbs and Samuel did a fine job according to me in that game. Early bad tackling on Addai was really the only major blemish we had on defense.
     
  15. He Ban Me

    He Ban Me Banned

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    "He throws it to Moss when Moss has position"?? Respectfully, this is whacked. At what point in the route do you think he throws that ball? How long do you think it takes to get there? How many yards do the players cover in that time frame??

    The Addai play, while unexpected, still counts, right?? I mean, we can't just "take away" that play, right?? Last season, I argued that for the most part, the Colts defense (while at many times abysmal) could stop the run. In MANY games, it was 1 or 2 runs out of 30-35 that really helped skew the numbers out of favor. I was lambasted for it (not here). The play also began with :28 left. A healthy 20-30 yard gain probably takes 10 seconds, and gives us a shot to at least move into FG range, so who knows how that ends if that "fluke" doesn't happen. It WAS kinda funny that Harrison took his own player out of the play :)

    BTW, that 73 yard play took 23 seconds, yet NE fan was worried about the Cowboys scoring TWO touchdowns in a span of 20 seconds, starting from 95 or so yards away. Kinda ridiculous, eh :rolleyes:
     
  16. Oswlek

    Oswlek In the Starting Line-Up

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    Fluke \= doesn't count.

    It just means that it isn't likely to happen again. The Moss deep ball is more likely to happen. I don't see why you would argue this.
     
  17. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'm a fan of Hobbs, but it seems to me that Samuel, at this point, is the better, more consistent corner--it's not something I've really researched, more of a sense as to where they tend to be in relation to the receivers they're on.
     
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