Randall Gay to visit Jets

[italia44]

There is NO negotiation. If the Jest sign him to an offer sheet then the Patriots either match or get their 2nd rounder. It's just that simple.


I heard this on TV as well.
Of course, BB has the last word.

My point is that if Mangini signs him to an offer sheet,for a 2nd rd D/choice ......he's lost it.

The negotiation part comes when Mangini tells BB,"We are interested,but not for a 2nd round.

"Can we work out something else"?

BB to Mangini:yes
BB to Mangini:no

 

[danny88]

My point is that if Mangini signs him to an offer sheet,for a 2nd rd D/choice ......he's lost it.

The negotiation part comes when Mangini tells BB,"We are interested,but not for a 2nd round.

"Can we work out something else"?

BB to Mangini:yes
BB to Mangini:no

After the reports of you inflating Asantes ego? NO

 

[BradyManny]

I've been a fan since I first started watching and understanding the game of football back in 93-94 (I'm only 24 now). Anyway, I know that Eugene was MOVED to safety, but they STUCK with him at FS throughout the years and have YET to move him back. IF they thought he was better at CB, he would have been back to his "natural" position as soon as they got a replacement, say the following year. Thing is, he did such a good job at FS that BB decided to keep him at that position for the BEST of the TEAM OUTCOME.

Necessity moved him into the Safety position, what is to say necessity doesn't move him back to CB? He was a good enough CB in college to be the fourth player selected in the 2nd round.

 

[hobbsownscoles]

Wilson's looked decent playing CB the few times he's played there over the last few years

 

[VJCPatriot]

This has got to be a bluff. Gay is not worth a 2nd rounder and the Jets know it. I would be surprised as hell if they gave up a 2nd rounder for him. Much as I liked Gay "when healthy", key word healthy, I would easily let him walk for a 2nd rounder in return.

 

[italia44]

After the reports of you inflating Asantes ego? NO

with the recent story about the BB/Mangini rapproachmente......I think they will be civil and negotiate.BB is too smart not to listen to offers,
mais non?

 

[sebman2112]

Um, did I miss something? A second rounder for Randall Gay? I really like the guy, but he hasn't been healthy since 2004. If I could get one of the Jets second round picks for a guy who was originally an undrafted free agent, and hasn't played anything close to a full season since 2004....I might just call the Jets and thank them for the gift!


I mean, seriously the Patriots could get one of Josh Wilson, Tanard Jackson, Brian Leonard, Josh Gattis, Eric Weddle, David Harris, LaMarr Woodley, Stewart Bradley, Hughes, Blalock, J. Hill, Tony Hunt, McCauley, Pittman, Spencer, Bennett, Craig Davis, and Jonathan Wade with that pick.

 

[danny88]

with the recent story about the BB/Mangini rapproachmente......I think they will be civil and negotiate.BB is too smart not to listen to offers,
mais non?

I thought there was recent speculation of Mangina trying to screw up contract talks w samuel.

 

[The 12th Man]

Wilson's looked decent playing CB the few times he's played there over the last few years

Decent-Yes. Starting CB - NO. That's my point.

 

[BradyManny]

Decent-Yes. Starting CB - NO. That's my point.

Honestly, how can we know either way?

In 03 would you have known if Wilson was a starting caliber Safety?

I think people take for granted the fact that no NFL team goes into the season with all starting spots on both sides of the balls locked in with a borderline Pro Bowl caliber player.

Again, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt at CB. He was an early 2nd round pick as a CB, and the only reason he hasn't played CB has been necessity. Now, necessity may demand him to play CB.

 

[The 12th Man]

Honestly, how can we know either way?

In 03 would you have known if Wilson was a starting caliber Safety?

I think people take for granted the fact that no NFL team goes into the season with all starting spots on both sides of the balls locked in with a borderline Pro Bowl caliber player.

Again, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt at CB. He was an early 2nd round pick as a CB, and the only reason he hasn't played CB has been necessity. Now, necessity may demand him to play CB.

Where a player is drafted doesn't correlate with production all the time. If you remember when we drafted him, nobody even expected him to go that high. Anyway, he has played CB in TC for a few years and ended up being a FS again, even when we had plenty of FS on the roster. Given that Pats are now looking for another CB in FA (Tory James a possibility), there is a better chance of him remaining at FS (where he's best suited to play). Don't get me wrong, I like Eugene and hope he stays healthy for us this year along with Rodney. But IMO, (and BB's I guess), he is better at FS than CB. I think BB would play Troy Brown at CB before Eugene. OK, maybe not. Also, if you take Wilson from the FS position, you're creating another hole there. Who will play in his spot if he's a CB? Hawkins? I hope not, he couldn't cover my grandma. I would not like to see him starting.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm in the camp that says that if the Jets talk to the Patriots ahead of time about compensation, they should look for a 2nd and 7th in return

 

[DaBruinz]

I disagree. Wilson is not that good of a CB (hence BB moved him to FS where he's better). The reason they considered him at CB is for depth, injury, etc. I would not be happy with Eugene as our starting CB. Hobbs is OK, but Eugene is not a starting CB IMO. He can still be moved to CB, but definitely not a starting CB. If we trade Asante and lose Gay, we are in big trouble unless we trade for someone that can start. I'm not too high on a rookie(s) starting, even if it's Revis.

As another poster mentioned, they put Wilson at FS because they had let Milloy go and Antwan Harris had failed miserably. Wilson was the player more ready to play in the game in general than Samuel was.

Personally, I think Samuel would make a GREAT free safety right now. In fact, I think Samuel could be an All-Pro free safety. I don't believe that he'll ever be an All-Pro CB with the Patriots or with anyone else.

Also, there are still FA CBs available, though we may not like them. There is interest in Tory James, supposedly.

 

[DaBruinz]

I've been a fan since I first started watching and understanding the game of football back in 93-94 (I'm only 24 now). Anyway, I know that Eugene was MOVED to safety, but they STUCK with him at FS throughout the years and have YET to move him back. IF they thought he was better at CB, he would have been back to his "natural" position as soon as they got a replacement, say the following year. Thing is, he did such a good job at FS that BB decided to keep him at that position for the BEST of the TEAM OUTCOME.

You really don't know what you are talking about.

The Pats haven't moved Wilson back to CB for several reasons. The first is that for the 1st 2 years, they had Ty Law and Ty Poole manning the starting CB positions. During the 2nd year, when both Tys were hurt, they put in Gay because he showed he could play and they didn't have a free safety to put in if they moved Wilson up to corner, though it should be noted that Wilson DID play at CB during the 2nd half of the Pittsburgh game. The second reason is that they haven't had a capable back-up free safety until they got Chad Scott 2 years ago, but neither Scott nor Wilson have been healthy. That is why they got Artrell Hawkins, though he faltered at the end of last season as well. 3rd, the Pats DID, in fact, play Wilson at CB during TC last year. He didn't play in any games, but they did have him doing drills back there.

Who, who would the Pats have put at FS if they had moved Wilson back to CB prior to now?

 

[DaBruinz]

Decent-Yes. Starting CB - NO. That's my point.

Except that you've already proven you don't know what you are talking about.

And that is the case here. You don't know if Wilson could move to CB and be a starting CB for this team.

 

[DaBruinz]

Where a player is drafted doesn't correlate with production all the time. If you remember when we drafted him, nobody even expected him to go that high. Anyway, he has played CB in TC for a few years and ended up being a FS again, even when we had plenty of FS on the roster.

This is just garbage. The Pats have NOT have plenty of FS on the roster. Please stop because you are just digging a deeper hole for yourself.

The Pats didn't reach for Wilson, btw. He was rated the 5th best CB of the 2003 draft and projected to go in the 2nd round. Where did the Pats take him? The 2nd round. So its plain garbage that no one expected Wilson to go that high. I think you are getting Wilson confused with Bethel Johnson. No one expected Johnson to go in the 2nd round. Most had him as a mid-late 3rd.

Given that Pats are now looking for another CB in FA (Tory James a possibility), there is a better chance of him remaining at FS (where he's best suited to play). Don't get me wrong, I like Eugene and hope he stays healthy for us this year along with Rodney. But IMO, (and BB's I guess), he is better at FS than CB. I think BB would play Troy Brown at CB before Eugene. OK, maybe not. Also, if you take Wilson from the FS position, you're creating another hole there. Who will play in his spot if he's a CB? Hawkins? I hope not, he couldn't cover my grandma. I would not like to see him starting.

You don't know that Wilson is "BEST SUITED" to play FS. Hell, the Pats could be looking at Tory James for the FS position because of his age and ability as a replacement for Hawkins.

 

[rookBoston]

If we got the Jets' 2nd for Gay and the Redskins' 1st in 2008 for Samuel, I let them go with our thanks and find the veterans on the waiver wire who were looking for work. Then draft a handful of Day One talent into the secondary, and ride those guys to another couple of SBs.

We're talking about a smooth running UDFA and a slightly undersized 4th rounder with good hands. But let's not forget how these players got so good: they were coached up over the years, and played in a scheme that maximizes what they can bring.

This is so similar to Branch and Givens that I'm stunned the rest of the NFL hasn't figured it out. Branch and Givens only became household names because of the team they played on, and their willingness to be a part of it. Swapping them for Caldwell and Gaffney, a 1st, a 6th and pot load of capspace is one of the great coups of the modern era.

It's happening again, and I know BB/SP are prepared to let it happen, and adapt their offseason plans to take best advantage. Two first day picks, plus the cap space is gold to these guys. Better than most any other team, BB/SP will cash it in, and come away stronger.

Samuel and Gay have already more than paid off the investment that the team has put into them, simply based on their play on the field. If we get top quality residual value out of them too....! End of story.

Scott, Hobbs, Wilson, Harrison, Sanders, Hawkins... we have plenty of warm bodies to field a team, and the rest of the offseason to fill out the depth chart. And I'm sure SP will find a David Patton or a Stephen Neal sweeping out a Burger King somewhere, who can play CB in the NFL.

 

[shakadave]

I would have traded Bethel Johnson for a 2nd.
I would trade Marquise Hill for a 2nd.
I don't especially like Blue Gay for a 2nd.

 

[italia44]

DaBruinz has this nailed.Wilson is a CB,who filled a need at FS in his first year and struggled afterwards.

Both due to injury,and the loss of his mentor Rodney
Harrison.Wilson also struggled with the fact that,as with most teams,the FS helps to call the coverages in the secondary.The Patriots are a little different than this,as the SS,Harrison,makes most of the secondary adjustments.

Of course,Wilson struggled with this.....he's a CB,
not a FS by design,but by need.

Don't sell BB short on this.....with or without Asante,he's looking at Wilson at corner,Hobbs and
Gay at SS and possibly Tory James at FS.

James is 6'2",experienced,and has good hands and
I definately think he's worth a look as a FS and back-up CB.

Chad Scott and Hawkins are stop-gap solutions,Gay,Hobbs,Sanders,Wilson and Tory James or a FS draftee have value and potential.

Like chess pieces.....BB sees the board,way before
anyone else.

 

[The 12th Man]

You just think you're so smart DaBruins, but you're not. I'll just wait and remind you later when Eugene Wilson is still our starting FS in game 1 of the regular season and not our starting CB. If the Patriots wanted to get another FS all those years and put him back at CB, they could have easily done it. It's not that difficult to find a capable FS over that many years, right? And like I said, by moving Wilson to CB it would create a whole in the FS position. If you think they're looking at Tory James to play FS, that's fine. Your opinion. And I have my opinion. I'll just remind you on day 1 who our FS will be when time comes.