Raheem Brock Has "Great" Workout With Patriots [update: signs with Seattle]

[Froob]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

Wow, I though Brock went to the eagles and was basically done. Had no idea he had a career year with the seahawks. Sign the beast!

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

The more this goes on, with the Patriots and Colts looking at the same kinds of d-linemen and the Pats shedding 3-4 types, the less that "base D" looks like the base....

Well the Pats and Colts have both had 1 backup DL in for a visit. I dont think that is a trend of them looking for the same kinds of DL.
I don't see where the Pats 'shed 3-4 types'. I am not on board with the thinking that Ty Warren loses value in a 43. Warren is gone, but scheme had nothing to do with it. We still need the same number of DL in a 43 as a 34. (Plus needing to turn some OLBs into DEs)
I think the speculation has gone crazy and everything that happens is now the evidence of 'the change' even if it really doesnt do anything to indicate it.
We are having a 34 OLB and a sub package pass rusher visit, and people are calling that proof we are changing to a 43.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

How is Roth more important. Brock is the better pass rusher.

Roth is a better football player. Roth will play 3 downs.
Brock will be a sub package inside pass rusher.
Btw, you do realize that before last year Brock had a total of 12.5 sacks in the last 4 years, with no more than 3.5 in any of those seasons, right?
Roth had 12.5 in the last 3 years.

So, including last years career year, the 32 year old Brock has 21.5 sacks in 5 years, or playing DL and rushing on every snap he is on the field, 4.3 per year, while Roth, 28, while playing OLB and not rushing every snap, has 4.17 sacks per year.
0.13 sacks per year is one every 7 seasons. I would assume Roth could get 1 more every 7 years if he was allowed to rush on every pass play, wouldnt you?

Also, it has been reported that Roth led the league in QB pressures. What does that do? It gets sacks for other players.

 

[Triumph]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

Well the Pats and Colts have both had 1 backup DL in for a visit. I dont think that is a trend of them looking for the same kinds of DL.
I don't see where the Pats 'shed 3-4 types'. I am not on board with the thinking that Ty Warren loses value in a 43. Warren is gone, but scheme had nothing to do with it. We still need the same number of DL in a 43 as a 34. (Plus needing to turn some OLBs into DEs)
I think the speculation has gone crazy and everything that happens is now the evidence of 'the change' even if it really doesnt do anything to indicate it.
We are having a 34 OLB and a sub package pass rusher visit, and people are calling that proof we are changing to a 43.

Brock played for the Colts.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

I'd be happy with either one.

 

[Username]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

I'd be happy with either one.

As would I, although I'd slightly favour Raheem Brock

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

Roth is a better football player. Roth will play 3 downs.
Brock will be a sub package inside pass rusher.

Why is it that every player you don't like or want is a sub package player but every player you like is a 3 down kinda guy?

Btw, you do realize that before last year Brock had a total of 12.5 sacks in the last 4 years, with no more than 3.5 in any of those seasons, right?
Roth had 12.5 in the last 3 years.

Yes, let's have a look at their sack numbers since Roth and Brock have been in the NFL - 2005 onward.

So, including last years career year, the 32 year old Brock has 21.5 sacks in 5 years, or playing DL and rushing on every snap he is on the field, 4.3 per year, while Roth, 28, while playing OLB and not rushing every snap, has 4.17 sacks per year.

[B]Year    Matt Roth   Raheem Brock[/B]
2010    1.0/16.0     9.0/16.0
2009    4.0/10.0     3.5/16.0
2008    5.0/16.0     3.5/16.0
2007    3.0/13.0     2.5/11.0
2006    3.5/16.0     3.0/16.0
2005    1.0/16.0     6.5/16.0
[B]Output 17.5/87.0    28.0/91.0[/B]

Interesting choice of time frames there. How about a direct comparison when both players were in the NFL.

Funny how that changes the argument.

0.13 sacks per year is one every 7 seasons. I would assume Roth could get 1 more every 7 years if he was allowed to rush on every pass play, wouldnt you?

Irrelevant.

Also, it has been reported that Roth led the league in QB pressures. What does that do? It gets sacks for other players.

Provide a link to a credible website thanks. Pro Football Focus is not a credible website.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

i would hope they get osi, who would be the anwser , and with cuningham coming along... but a brock and a roth signing would be a good alternative....

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

i would hope they get osi, who would be the anwser , and with cuningham coming along... but a brock and a roth signing would be a good alternative....

My preference is for Umenyiora but I wouldn't scoff at acquiring Brock or Roth. My ire is drawn when people warp arguments to suit their own agenda rather than looking at the total picture.

 

[Displaced - Fan]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

My preference is for Umenyiora but I wouldn't scoff at acquiring Brock or Roth. My ire is drawn when people warp arguments to suit their own agenda rather than looking at the total picture.

They could probably get both Brock and Roth for the price Umenyiora is looking for. I'd be up for signing both of them :rocker:

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

I think Brock is very interesting, more so than Harris, looking like 4-3 based with 3-4 mixed in this year. Interesting season, can't wait to see the first preseason game. Do we carry 8 DL now?

I would think so, but keep in mind that in the 4-3, Cunningham and Moore would be considered DE, where last year they were more OLB. So they kind of fill both depth charts depending on how we line up.

 

[TomPatriot]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

I think the pool of linebackers out there is so diluted...it makes creating a good 3-4 defense more difficult to assemble.

Or the Patriots have LBs designed for a 4-3. Guyton should be a very good Will. Mayo is excellent as a Sam or Mike. Spikes should be a good run Mike, though I could see 4-2 nickel on passing downs or Mayo moving to the Mike in a sub package on 3rd down.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

You know, some want Roth and some want Brock. I'm going to tweak my answer. Since the Pats will have interviewed and worked out both here shortly, I'm going to say my pick is the one they like better. I can't really say the one they sign, because the one they like better may or may not be the one they sign.

 

[captain stone]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

Brock will be a sub package inside pass rusher...

Why does Brock have to play inside during passing downs? Why can't he play DE?

 

[Username]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

Why does Brock have to play inside during passing downs? Why can't he play DE?

That's gonna be Osi's job

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

I think the speculation has gone crazy and everything that happens is now the evidence of 'the change' even if it really doesnt do anything to indicate it.
We are having a 34 OLB and a sub package pass rusher visit, and people are calling that proof we are changing to a 43.

Huh, au contraire, Brock has played nothing but 4-3 defensive end his whole career, 8 seasons with the Colts and 1 season with the Seahawks. How does that translate to 3-4 OLB in your mind? At 32 I think it's a bit late to turn him into a conversion project.

At 6'4", 274 lbs Brock is strong enough to set the edge (having also played defensive tackle at times for the Colts), meaning he could play left or right end for the Patriots. At this point in his career, I do not see him making the transition to outside linebacker.
Patriots Looking at Free Agent Pass Rushers Matt Roth and Raheem Brock - Pats Pulpit

There's a pink elephant in the room and that is the emergence of the 4-3 for the Pats defense this season. I expect to see way more 4 man fronts in 2011 simply because that is the type of personnel we are stocking up on thus far.

 

[D-Money]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

Get Brock on the cheap and trade for Osi.I want pass rushers!!

 

[mrscruff]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

RapSheet on twitter

"With the Patriots. Interesting... RT @RaheemBrock Had a great workout today! ......Decisions....Decisions....Decisions..."

 

[patsfan13]

Re: Pats hosting Raheem Brock on Wednesday

I hope Brock is healthy he represents good value IMO.

Going after Roth? Depends on how much 4-3 we are going to tun as opposed to 3-4. If 4-3 is going to be the primary package for passing situations/teams then Roth isn't a great value. In the 4-3 Spikes makes sense as the Mike, if you are in the nickle with 3 LB, it would be Guyton/Fletcher IMO Roth doesn't add a lot of value. He may add more value in 3-4 situations, but the upgrade over Ninko (presuming J Cunningham is still viewed as a 3 down player) isn't that great IMO, if Carter show something in camp Roth is a minimal upgrade.

How many DL to carry and the mix will be very telling, if we are going more 4-3 could we carry 8 DL?

This is a very fascinating off season.

 

[PushnPencils]

Raheem Brock Twitter Page

Twitter

He thought it went well.