Questions for Floyd Reese

[TomPatriot]

1.) Since you traded Cassel for something that was not "very, very expensive", was your January valuation of Cassel incorrect??
2.) Why did New England, your current employer, not bide their time??

If you believe Mortensen, Reese was right. TB offered a 1 and a 3.

Reese doesn't make the final decision.

 

[okterrific]

Thread should've ended after upstater's post. Reese knew he was going to be with the Pats, he was talking up their trade chip. When's the last time a player got traded for a 1st AND a second rounder? That's ridiculous.

 

[BPF]

On January 12th you were quoted as
"It would have to be multiple choices and very high choices to get Cassel," ESPN analyst and former Tennessee Titans general manager Floyd Reese said. "Two first-rounders, or a one and a two and a three ... It'll be something very, very expensive."

Reese claimed the Patriots could wait as long as they wanted and still have eager trade partners.

"It's definitely a seller's market," Reese said. "A team like New England can sit back and bide their time.

"If you take the actual number of franchise quarterbacks in the NFL, there's maybe 15. Who's Detroit's starting quarterback? You can go down a long list. All of those teams would be in the bidding.

"You don't have to be in a hurry. There's always teams out there in need of a quarterback, teams who'll think 'We don't like this guy. We can't win with him.'"

Cassel trade talk opens with high 1st-rounder - AFC East - ESPN

1.) Since you traded Cassel for something that was not "very, very expensive", was your January valuation of Cassel incorrect??
2.) Why did New England, your current employer, not bide their time??

It has nothing to do with valuation of a player's talents but rather market valuation.

 

[billdog3484]

good questions. however, i am not about to get on a guy, who in all likelihood shared the same sentiment with BB and Cesario. Who knows how much pull he has at this point. i think it would be unfair to blame him.

 

[jmt57]

Thread should've ended after upstater's post. Reese knew he was going to be with the Pats, he was talking up their trade chip. When's the last time a player got traded for a 1st AND a second rounder? That's ridiculous.

Didn't Joey Galloway (to Dallas) and Keyshawn Johnson (to Tampa Bay) go for two firsts? I know, that's a while ago - but they're receivers, not quarterbacks!

And then of course, there's the running backs - Ricky Williams and Herschel Walker.

Rare, yes; but it does happen once in a while.

 

[jmt57]

Reese could have said Cassel should be very, very expensive but will not be because the Pats will have to deal him early in free agency in order to sign players. He did not. Knowing that tagging Cassel would hinder the Pats' cap flexibility he still contended that the Patriots could wait for the best offer.

Yep, you're absolutely correct there.

Now the question is, was Reese incorrect in his assessment - i.e., neglecting to factor in the need to make a deal quickly? Or did he already know he was headed to the Pats, and was using his platform in an attempt to pump up the value of an asset of his soon-to-be employer?

 

[spacecrime]

It seems to me that the Pats had two options:

1.) Hold out for the best offer, as Reese had outlined earlier - and miss out on potential free agents and re-signing of current players due to salary cap limitations; or

2.) Trade quickly, sacrificing the best potential return in trade value in order to obtain immediate cap space and the ability to sign more players.


I don't think it was a case of Reese's January evaluation of cassel being incorrect; I just think BB decided the flexibility of immediate cap space had a higher value than the improvement in exchange for Cassel at a later date.

This makes a lo of sense to me. Not that I hadn't hoped for more, but sometimes the market isn't what you want, and who could have figured the Vikings would think that the winner of a Taveres Jackson-Sage Rosenfells competition was the future of their franchise?

 

[spacecrime]

If anyone's able to follow that logic, they also have to ask themselves if Cassel would willingly play coy in allowing the Patriots to drive up the asking price for his services. Ultiamately, Cassel stands to benefit by having the Chiefs keep their 1st round pick. Anything Cassel could say or do to give him and his new team as many weapons as possible could only HELP him in the long run.

Very very interesting!

 

[spacecrime]

It has nothing to do with valuation of a player's talents but rather market valuation.

SOme very astute observations in this thread!

 

[b72s]

I Agree

I believe FA and cap flexibility was a critical component.

The best FAs are gone early so need to pounce early.

Also need to tie up Vince.


A 1 and 3 two's brings alot of players into camp or trade bait if needed.

Fans are upset at high expectations and Vrabel but end of day cap flexibility, FA and draft
process will answer fans concerns

 

[Water Boy]

5. The Must Trade Theory: Belichick franchised Cassel knowing full well that he must be moved fairly early in the free agency period. Franchised him early to get the clock started and serve notice to the other GMs. Once he got an offer that was acceptable, he took it. Waiting for an optimal offer and potentially getting stuck with Cassel's cap number was unacceptable. Risk management may have cost the Pats some spots in the draft, but the downside was just too high to play around.

Well put, metaphors. If there were any teams with real interest in Cassel besides KC, they had ample time to negotiate a trade in principle with the Pats prior to FA.

 

[WhiZa]

Somewhat on topic question, if the Pats went over the cap before trading Cassel would they be penalized? Something like a deadline for being under the cap or do teams always have to be under, and if they go over at anytime they are penalized?

 

[smg93]

It is what it is! The deal wasn't great but there are much worse alternatives out there such as having two QB's being paid 14 mil each. No use crying over spilled milk now.

 

[Michigan Dave]

Somewhat on topic question, if the Pats went over the cap before trading Cassel would they be penalized? Something like a deadline for being under the cap or do teams always have to be under, and if they go over at anytime they are penalized?

When he was franchised, and signed the tender that money hit the cap. They had to stay under the cap. When a player is franchised but doesn't sign the tender, the team always has to remain enough under the cap so that if the player were to sign the tender, it would fit under the cap.

 

[jmt57]

Somewhat on topic question, if the Pats went over the cap before trading Cassel would they be penalized? Something like a deadline for being under the cap or do teams always have to be under, and if they go over at anytime they are penalized?

I could be wrong, but as I recall teams have 24 hours to make cap room, or else the transaction is not approved by the league. It makes sense for the NFL to do it this way, rather than have a team cut a player (in anticipation of a signing or trade), and then have the deal fall through - and also lose the player they cut.

 

[shakadave]

5. The Must Trade Theory: Belichick franchised Cassel knowing full well that he must be moved fairly early in the free agency period. Franchised him early to get the clock started and serve notice to the other GMs. Once he got an offer that was acceptable, he took it. Waiting for an optimal offer and potentially getting stuck with Cassel's cap number was unacceptable. Risk management may have cost the Pats some spots in the draft, but the downside was just too high to play around.

Yup, 5 it is!

 

[Fencer]

On January 12th you were quoted as
"It would have to be multiple choices and very high choices to get Cassel," ESPN analyst and former Tennessee Titans general manager Floyd Reese said. "Two first-rounders, or a one and a two and a three ... It'll be something very, very expensive."

Reese claimed the Patriots could wait as long as they wanted and still have eager trade partners.

"It's definitely a seller's market," Reese said. "A team like New England can sit back and bide their time.

"If you take the actual number of franchise quarterbacks in the NFL, there's maybe 15. Who's Detroit's starting quarterback? You can go down a long list. All of those teams would be in the bidding.

"You don't have to be in a hurry. There's always teams out there in need of a quarterback, teams who'll think 'We don't like this guy. We can't win with him.'"

Cassel trade talk opens with high 1st-rounder - AFC East - ESPN

1.) Since you traded Cassel for something that was not "very, very expensive", was your January valuation of Cassel incorrect??
2.) Why did New England, your current employer, not bide their time??

Good catch!

I hadn't realized Reese was one of the experts predicting a windfall for Cassel.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Good catch!

I hadn't realized Reese was one of the experts predicting a windfall for Cassel.

Keep in mind, though, that it was under the assumption that the team would be signing Cassel to a long-term deal.

If the Chiefs are only guaranteed one or two years of Cassel, then a second is a steal for New England.

 

[spacecrime]

Somewhat on topic question, if the Pats went over the cap before trading Cassel would they be penalized? Something like a deadline for being under the cap or do teams always have to be under, and if they go over at anytime they are penalized?

They cannot go over the cap.

If they ry to sign a player and that contract would bring them over the cap, the contract will not be approved by the NFL.

 

[Fencer]

Keep in mind, though, that it was under the assumption that the team would be signing Cassel to a long-term deal.

If the Chiefs are only guaranteed one or two years of Cassel, then a second is a steal for New England.

Right. It was a three-way negotiation, with Cassel holding the strongest hand (namely, the right to be paid more than he's worth).

The Patriots actually gambled a LOT of money just to get a 2nd round pick.