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Questions for Floyd Reese

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Miguel, Mar 1, 2009.

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  1. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    On January 12th you were quoted as
    "It would have to be multiple choices and very high choices to get Cassel," ESPN analyst and former Tennessee Titans general manager Floyd Reese said. "Two first-rounders, or a one and a two and a three ... It'll be something very, very expensive."

    Reese claimed the Patriots could wait as long as they wanted and still have eager trade partners.

    "It's definitely a seller's market," Reese said. "A team like New England can sit back and bide their time.

    "If you take the actual number of franchise quarterbacks in the NFL, there's maybe 15. Who's Detroit's starting quarterback? You can go down a long list. All of those teams would be in the bidding.

    "You don't have to be in a hurry. There's always teams out there in need of a quarterback, teams who'll think 'We don't like this guy. We can't win with him.'"

    http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-4-743/Cassel-trade-talk-opens-with-high-1st-rounder.html

    1.) Since you traded Cassel for something that was not "very, very expensive", was your January valuation of Cassel incorrect??
    2.) Why did New England, your current employer, not bide their time??
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
  2. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    If I get a question related my prospective employer's assets, I too would talk them up. If I'm interviewing for a job at, say, the Boston Herald, I would note how brilliantly they handled the aftermath of the Spygate-Tomase fiasco.
  3. Absurdly Metro

    Absurdly Metro Rookie

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    A very astute question Miguel. One I think many of us would love to have answered. Unfortunately I won't be holding my breath on one forthcoming from Foxboro anytime soon.
  4. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Aren't you letting BB off the hook? I thought he had ultimate authority on personnel moves.

    Basically SP undressed them in front of the rest of the league. It is what it is, nothing can be done about it now.
  5. dtbrks

    dtbrks Rookie

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    Guess he was wrong :mad:
  6. Lampshade

    Lampshade Rookie

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    Unfortunately a team cannot accept hypothetical trade offers.
  7. Michigan Dave

    Michigan Dave Rookie

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    I look at it like this:

    Had the Pats let Cassel walk, they'd likely get a compensatory 3rd round pick in 2010. That's effectively a 4th rounder, as those are end of the round picks. Instead, they franchised him right away and moved him right away for effectively a compensatory 1st round pick, as the #34 is early in the 2nd round. If you consider the difference between what the realistic best-case situation was (I'd say a pick in range of #20 overall, maybe a 3rd as well?) and what we received, and the fact that waiting for that offer ties up such a significant portion of the available money...I'm completely OK with what we did. We can better judge this deal in a couple of months when we see the totality of the off-season, and what we do with 4 first-day picks and this space under the cap.
  8. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It seems to me that the Pats had two options:

    1.) Hold out for the best offer, as Reese had outlined earlier - and miss out on potential free agents and re-signing of current players due to salary cap limitations; or

    2.) Trade quickly, sacrificing the best potential return in trade value in order to obtain immediate cap space and the ability to sign more players.


    I don't think it was a case of Reese's January evaluation of cassel being incorrect; I just think BB decided the flexibility of immediate cap space had a higher value than the improvement in exchange for Cassel at a later date.
  9. Michigan Dave

    Michigan Dave Rookie

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    Exactly. It was a balancing test to me. Option #2 won out over option #1.
  10. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Rookie

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    Exactly. And making the deal quickly was important to get out of cap hell and reduce risk of NOT being able to trade later. I'm ok with this, I think some people are being babies about this tough market and deal....
  11. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Reese could have said Cassel should be very, very expensive but will not be because the Pats will have to deal him early in free agency in order to sign players. He did not. Knowing that tagging Cassel would hinder the Pats' cap flexibility he still contended that the Patriots could wait for the best offer.
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think this hits the nail on the head. I can think of only a few possible answers:

    1. The Supply and Demand Theory: Reese and the Pats totally mis-judged the market, and had to eat crow.
    2. The Salary Cap Theory: Reese and the Pats mis-judged their ability to handle the cost of the franchise tag, and decided they needed to dump Cassel quickly, so they settled for the best deal.
    3. The Conspiracy Theory: Reese and the Pats actually work for the Hunt family and Scott Pioli, and wanted to send Cassel to the Chiefs at all cost.
    4. The Free Agent Theory: Reese and the Pats identified a FA or trade target, and needed to free up Cassel's cap hit in order to go after it.

    I'm not sure I can think of any others. I have a hard believing the Pats were naive about the market for Cassel, or their ability to sit until the demand escalated, which is why I am waiting to see what they do next.
  13. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    5. The Must Trade Theory: Belichick franchised Cassel knowing full well that he must be moved fairly early in the free agency period. Franchised him early to get the clock started and serve notice to the other GMs. Once he got an offer that was acceptable, he took it. Waiting for an optimal offer and potentially getting stuck with Cassel's cap number was unacceptable. Risk management may have cost the Pats some spots in the draft, but the downside was just too high to play around.
  14. BSR

    BSR Rookie

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    Was there ever really a chance that the Patriots would be stuck with Cassel's cap number? I doubt it. If you need to dump him that badly just dangle him out there for a third.

    Personally I'll propose the No-Sign Theory. Cassel and his agent are insisting that he will only play for the Franchise number and want to renegotiate next year under what might be an uncapped year. In that case, no team will be able to sign him for a long term deal and the compensation reflects the additional risk. That is the only way I can make sense of what on the surface looks like a lopsided deal.
  15. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Take KC out of the equation (sticking with Thigpen or fine drafting Stafford/Sanchez) and tell me where you turn. Minnesota, Chicago and SF wanted nothing to do with Cassel. TB and Detroit didn't want him and that resulted in the 3-team mess with Denver. So KC and Denver were the only viable options I've heard of.

    If the only alternative to getting pick #34 was hoping that a 3-team deal for #20 went through, I don't blame Belichick for jumping. A #34 in the hand is worth more than a #20 in the bush...especially when the bush has a $15M cap charge hanging over it.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
  16. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    Is everyone assuming that Cassel was just a passive bystander during all this trade talk?

    Or have they factored in the fact that he had the power to block any trade and could effectively dictate where he would go by letting it be known he'd refuse to negotiate a long-term deal with other teams.

    While I don't view the Broncos as a bad place for Cassel to be at all - if Cassel's preference was to go to a team with enough cap space to pay him, and enough cap space to buy a good team, run by a Belichick protoge GM - he might have had no desire to start from scratch negotiating a new deal with a new team.

    In short, the Broncos, Bucs or any other team might have offered the Patriots their next 10 years of first round draft picks and it wouldn't matter. Cassel was the one who ultimately was going to decide where he was going to go, which might have limited the Patriots bargaining power.

    If anyone's able to follow that logic, they also have to ask themselves if Cassel would willingly play coy in allowing the Patriots to drive up the asking price for his services. Ultiamately, Cassel stands to benefit by having the Chiefs keep their 1st round pick. Anything Cassel could say or do to give him and his new team as many weapons as possible could only HELP him in the long run.

    Going to a team that was willing to give up several high picks in return for his favor is likely something that Cassel was smart enough to understand was NOT in his best interest.
  17. yopats

    yopats Rookie

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    Bottom line is that they wanted to get this handled asap.. and they tried to drum up interest early.. and the Chiefs were smart.. The complexity of that trade between TB / DEN and NE would have been immense.. it looks like sour milk from both those two now.. especially TB.. who has been sleeping at the wheel so far this FA period.
  18. BSR

    BSR Rookie

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    You don't think more team would have been involved if they thought they could have him for a second round pick? You have no idea what position Minnesota, Chicago or SF would have had toward Cassel if they had known the price. Everyone was talking about multiple high round draft picks. Someone would have taken him eventually for a second. No doubt about it.
  19. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    But the real bottom line is that all the football commentators are totally ignoring the fact that Cassel ultimately was the one and only person who was going to decide where he was going to go.

    And like Brady deferring salary so his team could give him the supporting cast he needed, Cassel had every interest in seeing his future team give up as little in return for him as possible.
  20. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Gosh, a business executive talking out of his ass.
    I'm shocked and surprised at this unique occurance.

    Ranks up there with congress speak "There's nothing wrong with Freddie Mack or Fannie Mae", just not as devestating.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
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