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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Jul 30, 2006.

  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is early, but we've had months since the draft, a couple of minor camps, some roster moves and a couple of days of training camp.

    RECEIVERS
    Caldwell is a major pickup. Thomas is an excellent receiver. Maroney is fine coming out of the backfield. Brown is on the veteran practice schedule, and should contribute. Jackson looked great in minicamp, pulled a hammy, and will be back in a few days.

    We need Branch to sign, and still have room to continue the competition for the #5 receiver, although having a couple of youngsters on the PS could work as well. I'd rather bring in another returner like Dwight and Davis last year to be the #5 receiver.

    QB, OL, TE, RB, FB
    There are no real issues other than who will win the various competitions for playing time. There are also some roster spots, but the competition is there.

    DEFENSIVE LINE
    The top four are ready, the backups are not. We need three to share some reps. Wright is stepping up, and has a great attitude, and should stick at a backup NT and as a special teamer. Hill is hurt. Sullivan is Sullivan and Smith and Thomas are the youngsters with a roster shot.

    LINEBACKER
    We have our four starters. The backups seem to be Banta-Cain, Brown and Gardner. We have youngsters competing for a spot or two in Alexander, Mincey and Roach. And we have top special team leaders in Davis and Izzo. Somehow this looks much better than a couple of month's ago, or even two weeks ago.

    CORNER
    Who will win the competition to start? We have lots of nickel backs. We have five corners plus Wilson; hopefully we'll find our starter, now that Law is not an option.

    SAFETY
    We have serveral who can start, or share starting depending on the opposition. We have seven competing for six spots, but Wilson could win a corner spot, and all could make the roster.

    KICKER
    Both seems fine.

    RETURNERS
    The search continues. Will we need to use a roster spot on a returner?

    SPECIAL TEAMS COVERAGE
    We brought in Mitchell and Jones to replace Chatham, and perhaps the decreased effectiveness of Davis. Wright will be more active. We should see some improvemnt.

    BOTTOM LINE - WHAT ME WORRY?
    For me, the open questions and potential weaknesses are at corner, returner and at wide receiver (until Branch is back).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2005
  2. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Premature at best on Caldwell and Maroney, at least see how they do as receivers in the Atlanta scrimmage before giving them a thumbs up.
     
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  3. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #15 Jersey

    Ditto for the kicking game. I'm wondering if Automatica edges out the rook for the kicking spot, would we keep two kickers. Gramatica is long on kickoffs, so it might not even be a consideration.
     
  4. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

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    I am encouraged that Troy Brown looks good so far. We really may need him to step up yet again this year and be our miracle man like so many times before! If Caldwell and Branch start, it is likely that Brown will have to play a lot while Jackson learns the ropes and/or if anyone gets injuried. I bet Brown has a solid year this year, with 40 catches. I also think Caldwell may be a pleasant surprise, and make us forget Givens.

    If Light is hurt again, and Kaszur is out, or O-Line is taking yet another step backwards. This could end up being an area of concern yet again!

    I believe that Mike Wright makes the team ahead of Hill, who is either fragile or injury prone or has bad luck or is a slow learner, or........
    I never thought Sullivan had a great chance to make the team, it's his crappy character that keeps him out of shape.

    I like the theory that Vrabel will be used more inside to sub for Beisel if Beisel can't cut it, and that Chad Brown will look better at outside linebacker than inside, to sub for Vrabel and Colvin. I still think Chad may make the team and redeem himself.

    I like our depth at safety but not at cornerback. I see Wilson as maybe being one of our starting corners, and I will judge how 'supernatural' Hobbs is after seeing him go thru a whole camp and play a whole year as a sophmore. Lots of players look good for a brief period of time, but a 5'8" C.B. will have to be special to look good for a whole season after the league has gameplanned against him for a while. Maybe Hobbs is special, that would be fine with me. Asante, Asante........(sigh)

    Returners: Willie Andrews on kicks/Faulk on Punts, with emergency man Troy Brown.

    Worried about Corner, health of O-Line. Not Returners. I think we have enough TE/FB/RB's to cover WR depth, and Brady says Branch will be back.

    LB has some depth at this point, like Tully, Alexander, Izzo, Gardner, Chad Brown, Mincey. D-Line does not have much depth, IMO, unless Thomas and Smith pick up the two gap system well.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2006
  5. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not seeing where you're getting that.

    The DL has and will remain the deepest position on the team.
     
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  6. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

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    That's what a lot of people think Pats1, which is why I included 'IMO'.

    With Seymour on the sidelines, as he is prone to be from time to time, we need Wright to make a four man line. And behind Wright is, ummmmm, Hill is injuried every single time he takes the field, Sullivan is recovering from a donut overdose, so I guess that would make Thomas and Smith, who have never taken the field in a two gap system.

    It would limit our ability to run any 4-3 fronts if we lose any of our starters or Green. If we lose one more guy, we are counting on Wright for an extended period of time in the 3-4.

    IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2006
  7. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Jarvis Green says hello.

    Any position on any team is going to be prone to injuries to any of their players. No team is realistically going to have a full second string worth of starting-quality players. What the Pats have though in Green, Hill, and Smith/Sullivan is pretty damn close.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2006
  8. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

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    Jarvis Green makes for a 3-4 front, Wright would be our only option to run a 4-3 front as I see it.

    If anyone else goes down for any period of time as well, then Wright is in the 3 man front.

    Hello.
     
  9. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

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    You think much more highly of Hill/Sullivan/Smith than I do, apparently.

    As far as having a 'full second string', we have Green and then a drop off to Wright. Two guys, IMO. Only Wright as a back-up if we go to 4-3.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2006
  10. I'm Ron Borges?

    I'm Ron Borges? On the Game Day Roster

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    Putting Alexander and Roach in the same category is crazy. Alexander is in his third year in the system and has lined up with the second-team defense so far. Roach is an undrafted free agent who has barely stepped on the field yet in training camp. I've been to three practices and haven't seen him out there once. Just because you know the name "Freddie Roach" doesn't mean he has a chance to make the team. From what I've seen so far, he's even behind Corey Mays, who you didn't even mention. Alexander is way ahead of Roach at this point.
     
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  11. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    5RingsforBrady wrote: ".....and Brady says Branch will be back."
    __________________________


    I missed that. Where did you see it?
     
  12. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

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    I will check Brady's press transcript, but I thought he mentioned that he was in touch with Branch and that Branch would be back at some point.

    Edit: I re-read the press transcript and Brady was talking about 'when Branch gets back', although it was mostly in response to the media questioning.

    What I meant was that Branch will be back in the sense that he is not going to skip the whole season or anything crazy like that, or Brady probably would have had an inclination about it since he does talk to Branch frequently. I didn't mean to imply that Branch will be back next week or anything, but at least Brady seems comfortable that he won't be out for good.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2006
  13. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Singing to the choir...We've also been penciling Gay in (some as a starter) based on he played well late in his rookie season which was 2 years ago. Haven't seen him since, and he's starting out on PUP.....(sigh) ;)
     
  14. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm still not following you.

    Seymour, Wilfork, and Warren make the 3-4 front. Green added at DE, and Seymour or Warren shifted inside makes the 4-3. Another option at the 4-3 is Sullivan inside. Add in someone like Hill who simply hasn't had a decent chance to show what he's made of (considering who is in front of him), and Wright who can play across the line, plus L.K. Smith as a developmental type player, that's depth.

    The DL roster is shaping up like this:

    DE - Seymour
    NT - Wilfork
    DE - Warren

    DE - Green
    DE - Hill
    DL - Wright
    DT - Sullivan/Smith/Klecko/Thomas (pick 1, maybe 2)

    Last year, it looked like this:

    DE - Seymour
    NT - Wilfork
    DE - Warren

    DE - Green
    DE - Hill
    NT - Wright (Thomas Week 17)
    NT - Klecko
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2006
  15. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

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    Pats1- Like I said, you apparently believe in Hill/Sullivan more than I do. Based on REAL playing time, the back-ups are Green then Wright and then, at a distance, Hill, if he doesn't get traded or cut this camp for spending literally all his time here injuried so far, including this camp.

    Look at our depth TODAY in Camp: Seymour is out with an injury, Hill is injuried after one practice, Sullivan choked on a donut and is out. So our first back-up right now is Wright. And he would be starting if we attempt to go to a 4-3. This scenario is happening today in camp, and I don't think it is that far fetched that we could be in the same situation during the season.

    As always, this is my opinion. If you believe in Hill/Sullivan, than don't worry, be happy. ;)
     
  16. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And right now, today in camp, Matt Cassel is starting at QB. John Stone and Matt Shelton are starting at WR.

    At this point in the "season," anything goes.

    Do you really think Seymour and Sullivan will still be on the PUP list next week, nevermind September?

    The Pats' DL, as we know, is probably the best in the league. With high quality players like Seymour, Wilfork, and Warren, guys like Hill, Wright, or Sullivan aren't going to get much playing time, if any. Green gets his playing time as a situational rusher, but Hill is a bigger run stopper. There just isn't that much playing time to go around.
     
  17. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

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    Difference of opinion. Hill will NEVER play in a meaningful way in the NFL, IMO. Sullivan just won't fit in, IMO. Seymour misses time EVERY season, IMO. I don't care who is playing Q.B. today in camp, because if it were a game then Seymour might not be able to play if he is injuried, like during each regular season. If Green gets dinged up, then Wright is on the field just to complete a 3 man line.

    I see our depth as thin and you see it as overflowing, END of DEBATE! ;)
     
  18. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But tell me, what team has the depth at ANY position to have an adequate replacement for a replacement for a starter?

    If Brady goes down and Cassel gets dinged up, then Bramlet will lead the offense.

    What are you looking for the Pats to have, also keeping in mind it's the salary cap era?

    If Seymour goes down, then Julius Peppers gets dinged up, they'll then have Michael Strahan?

    Hill hasn't been injured as much as you think.

    Also, I don't know why you think Hill is worthy of getting cut. Quite simply, he's a second round pick who is competing for playing time behind an All-Pro.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2006
  19. Digger44

    Digger44 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    What is your fascination with the 4-3??? Granted there are sets in which we will use it, but those are in the minority because we base our defense off of the 3-4. We don't need a four man line with great depth because we run and have a three man line with great depth. What you imply is that we need to gain 2 roster spots for 2 other DL because you think we run a 4-3 and need the depth to support a 4-3. We don't. WE RUN A 3-4.
     
  20. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

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    What I think is that Hill is a bust and that Sullivan won't work out in the long run, and may not make it thru camp. I think that we will be okay if Thomas or Smith prove to be better than Hill, but since I don't know yet, I am skeptical that they will pick up the two gap system. It seems to be a really personal thing whether D-Linemen can learn to play Belichick's defense correctly.

    I'm not expecting everyone to share my viewpoint, and this thread is hopefully about more than my opinion on the D-line.

    I would have been okay with things if Hill didn't get hurt INSTANTLY like he always does, or if Sullivan was in shape. But that didn't happen. Also, Seymour is great but he misses a fair amount of time. That's why we need depth. We don't even know what it would be like to lose Warren or Wilfork for a few weeks as well, thank god.
     

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