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Questioning Coaching Priorities

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, May 1, 2013.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    WR
    We seem to have it right. We have an OP, wide receivers coach and a former wide receivers coach all focusing on working on one of our two major team issues.

    DB
    Where is the emphasis? Where is the plan? It seems that we have brought in players for several years and hoped. Why should we expect this year's crop to better than those of the past. Sure, if Talib stays healthy, we are likely to be OK for this year. But it is a bid troublesome to be 25 or worse against the pass year after year.

    IMHO, Belichick doesn't have enough coaches. Clearly, we carry fewer than other teams. IMHO, we could use more help with the defensive backs. Obviously, Belichick could personally take a more active role, but he has enough on his plate as it is.

    We say that adding Armstead, Kelly and Collins will make the secondary appear better. I agree. The stats would likely to improve. HOWEVER, in some sense this masks the issue. We have spent lots and lots of resources on the defensive backfield and continue to have among the worst pass defenders in the league. And yes, I do understand that we a better on a shorter field. We can suck it up in the red zone. After all we are above average in points allowed. HOWEVER, compare this to the offensive oriented 2007 team which was 4th best in points allowed.
     
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    First he does not know how to draft.. or is influenced by his son.

    Now the contention is that he does not have enough coaches, one might think with his record and experience in the NFL he might have more of a clue..

    You can have 10 more coaches, but if you are not in sync and cannot adhere to the same philosophy it means nothing..

    People continue to reach and look for reasons to denigrate BB, however most of what has happened are a series of unfortunate events.. injuries, dropped balls, brain farts etc.

    Next will be the obligatory the Training Staff caused all the injuries.. particularly Gronkowski's arm problems..
     
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    We have two DB coaches - in the past we haven't always had two. How many do you want ?
     
  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good article.
     
  5. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Perhaps the safety coach and the corners coach are simply not effective. Perhaps the DC doesn't provide adequate leadership. I do NOT know the problem. However, IHMO, better coaching would help, perhaps a overall secondary coach in addition to Boyer and Flores.

    IMHO, when there is an issue, one approach (a good one) is to use additional resources to get the best candidates you can for the positions. This approach must include coaches.

     
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We've had one secondary coach before, it's crazy to want three. I don't know how good Boyer and Flores are except for a few tweets from Boston writers over the last 3 months or so from "sources" that said things like "it's not the coaching" and the "Flores may be a riser on the staff".

    Don't ask for links, they're just tweets I remember reading. I think it's safe to say it's been a player problem not a coaching problem. Let's see how they do this year with everyone coming back and not having to be reshuffled almost in their entirety at the bye like last year.
     
  7. edboc

    edboc On the Game Day Roster

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    Isn't this a talent issue, not a coaching issue? You can reference the effectiveness of the secondary pre vs post the Talb acquisition (when he was healthy).
     
  8. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Let's look at the number of coaches the Pats have, and compare that to some other teams.

    Pats: 16 - Official Website of the New England Patriots | Team - Coaches
    Steelers: 15 - Pittsburgh Steelers | Coaches
    Ravens: 22 - Baltimore Ravens | Coaches

    Similarities:
    - Head Coach
    - Asst HC who also handles one unit (OL, DL, ST)
    - OC
    - DC
    - ST
    - OL
    - RB
    - WR
    - TE
    - DL
    - LB
    - Strength & Conditioning
    - Asst Strength & Conditioning
    - Coaching Asst
    - Special Teams Asst

    Differences:
    - Pats do not have a dedicated QB coach (McDaniels is OC/QB coach)
    - Pats have one coach for CB, plus one for S; Pittsburgh and Baltimore have only one for all the defensive backs
    - Steelers and Ravens have an Offensive Asst; Pats do not
    - Steelers have a Defensive Asst; Pats and Ravens do not
    - Ravens list a Defensive Quality Control coach; no other QC coaches are acknowledged by any of the three teams
    - Pats and Ravens both have an Asst Strength & Conditioning coach; Pittsburgh does not
    - Pats list a 'Coaching Asst', Ravens list a 'Asst to HC'; Steelers have neither
    - In addition to a RB coach, the Ravens have a 'Run Game Coordinator'
    - In addition to a LB coach, the Ravens have an ILB coach
    - In addition to the ST and Asst ST coach, the Ravens also have a 'Kicking Consultant'
    - In addition to the OL coach, the Ravens also have an Asst OL coach
    - Ravens list an Executive Asst. My guess is that the other Head Coaches both have an Exec Asst also, but they're just not listed on the website



    What I would take away from this brief look at a couple of other teams is that if the Pats are in need of any additional coaching positions, then perhaps it would be an Offensive Asst and Defensive Asst. Along with Pittsburgh, other teams like the Giants, 49ers and other have separate people in those positions.


    As for the Pats and their secondary coaching, they have made some changes in recent years. Brian Flores has been the Pats safeties coach for just one year. Josh Boyer was the DB coach, now has one year as strictly the CB coach. Whether or not they are doing a good job may be up for debate; as edboc said, we can only speculate whether the issue is the talent level of the players, or the talent level of the coaches.
     
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The other issue is the overall number of years of NFL experience, at one time last year our total NFL experience for out Defensive Backfield was less than 5 years..

    It got better as time went on, however playing together and overall experience can make a D backfield better... I suspect that this year with the addition of Adrian Wilson things will improve, also McCourty and Dennard have additional time working together..

    Things are getting better.. be an optimist, maybe this year we can win a few games and maybe get to the playoffs.. oh I forgot.
     
  10. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This principle applies to players and coaches.

     
  11. Oswlek

    Oswlek In the Starting Line-Up

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    The problem is very simple. Bill's first attempt to rebuild the secondary (the entire defense, actually) was a complete failure. Because of this, there is a dearth of experienced pros hitting their prime after percolating in the system for a few years.

    Bill is now in rebuild #2, which appears to be far more successful, to my eyes.

    What is confusing you is that there were holdovers from the prior regime in the early part of those draft failures, so it all looks like a steady decline. But from a talent acquisition standpoint, it really wasn't. Even from a statistical standpoint, the defense has been improving and was legitimately good (not great) when fully stocked in the second half of last year.

    As for the questions about the secondary, I see nothing strange about NE targeting a couple guys. When you consider how much drop-off there was when Talib went out (and God forbid if Devin got hurt) clearly NE needed to upgrade the depth in a big way.
     
  12. Synovia

    Synovia In the Starting Line-Up

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    We have an All-Pro level FS (McCourty), a very good LCB (Talib), a good-to-very-good RCB (Dennard), and a bunch of guys fighting over the SS position, one who was a rookie last year and was pretty good (for a rookie).

    They have an average to slightly above average NFL secondary, that is very young, getting better, and has a ton of developmental upside. The depth isn't particularly good, but nobody has good depth. What the hell is the problem?
     
  13. chasa

    chasa 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #87 Jersey

    your posts seem to get more and more insane.

    we came in third last year, we came in 2nd the year before that, our team has only gotten better and younger this offseason.

    The issue isnt the we have bad coaches, not enough coaches, too much sunlight while we are on defense, or any other ****amamie excuse, the issue is we are constantly playing against the very best teams in the playoffs and recently coming up just short of winning it all.

    half the NFL would give their first born for the quality of team, players, and coaches we have in a heart beat.
     
  14. Synovia

    Synovia In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't know why people can't seem to understand this.

    Losing the superbowl, or a championship doesn't mean your team is inherently flawed, or a failure. **** happens.

    At that level of competition, talent margins are thin. Often smaller than homefield advantage. Or smaller than one really bad call. Or smaller than one lucky bounce. Or smaller than one team having a good day.

    The Patriots had a whole bunch of lucky bounces 2001,2003,2004. They've had a whole bunch of unlucky ones the last couple of years. It happens.

    If you're good enough to win 12+ games in the NFL, you're good enough to win a superbowl. Being good enough to win the superbowl doesn't mean you are going to though.
     
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