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Discussion in 'The PatsFans.com Pub' started by 3 to be 4, Sep 16, 2006.

  1. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Due to such concern of the effects of "Proselytizing" on the children and the corresponding lack of concern regarding the whole Tyler Faith issue, It brought a question to mind.

    If you had a daughter, which would bother you more, if she grew up to accept Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior and devoted much of her time spreading the Gospel, going on missions to try to convert people, you know, the dreaded "proselytizing" etc etc.
    OR

    if she grew up to be a porn star?

    which, as a parent, would concern you more?

    Just a question. It should be revealing (no pun intended) :)
     
  2. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing - so at one level I'd probably be worried about either extreme.... either an addiction to sex or an addiction to God (specifically a belief that she's right and everyone else is wrong on issues of God and religion.)

    I think that's worth noting here, as I don't think people are so much rejecting God - they're rejecting your attitude that your way is the one right way.

    There's a certain amount of distrust of those who have somehow convinced themselves that they are right and everyone else is wrong - that they've brainswashed themselves in some way - and desparately need to reinforce their beliefs by insisting that everyone believe the same as them.

    I'm not saying your way is a wrong way - I'm just saying its not necessarilly THE way for everyone.

    And the more you try to convince people that your way is the one right way, the more you are going to push them away - towards Tyler Faith if you will.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2006
  3. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    good points. But heres the thing. In what way have I "insisted"? Do I force people to read anything? If they dont want to believe in Jesus, do I somehow threaten them in any way. Unless im being attacked personally, have I said anything nasty to anyone, called them names.

    You see, to me, thats key point. In every category, from sports, politics, movies etc, people here give their opinion on something, and in so doing so, try to have others see things their way. In fact, if you look on the political forum ,its downright ugly most of the time how peole talk to each other trying to get a Democrat to be a Republican or visa versa. If I say, i think the Patriots are going to stink this year, am I not trying to get others to agree with me?

    So when someone here posts that Clinton is an idiot, does that make a Democrat run to Tyler Faith? (well, maybe bad example. hahah)

    Christians are called scum on this board, literally. Was that "proselytizing"?

    But when I assert my beliefs, im somehow "insisting" that you change? On what supernatural power? You guys give me much too much credit.

    So all these post and threads talking of the threat of my words? And its effects on the children?

    Granted, a religious sicko like Jim Jones is probably worse than being a run of the mill porn star. But have I achieved the level of Jim Jones? Really??
    because of music videos and Salavation invitations?? On a effen chat room?

    Check out for real the life of a porn star. Then think about the supposed "threats" I pose on a keyboard in my spare time.

    Because thats the question, and truly, most Gospel spreading Christians probably are more middle of the road mainsteam people than I am.

    So,again, if you had a daughter, you'd rather have her be porn star than be a devout Christian that invites people, albeit sloppily, to Christ?

    really????
     
  4. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    Here's a question for you, 3/4: Do you consider Tyler Faith a "sinner"? If so, why? Please explain to us why sex outside the missionary position in the confines of "holy matrimony" is "bad." Do your best, and then I'll explain how you've been brainwashed by faulty doctrine. (Hope you're up on your Christian history there, dude!)
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2006
  5. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I don't think the word "insisted" was anywhere in my post - nor was the notion of whether you insist that people read your posts relevant to my comments.

    I'm pretty sure you've made it pretty clear in your crusade that Jesus is the only way to salvation. (and I use that word for a reason given what others have done when convinced that there was only one right way to achieve salvation)

    In taking that approach, as good intentioned as you may be, you are driving people away. This is what I think people here are rejecting - not Christianity per se.

    While I understand why you are asking people whether they would choose between your lifestyle and Tyler Faith's for their child, the vast majority of the people are not one extreme or the other. It's also clear that you feel that others have wronged YOU for rejecting your call - and are further insulted by the lack of rejection for Tyler Faith.

    Ultimately, the thought that any of us could "choose" a lifestyle for our child is folly as well - if I attempted to choose either lifestyle for my daughter I'd expect she'd reject the choice that I make for her, insisting that she have a chance to decide for herself.

    She would be right in doing so. I would be wrong to force my beliefs - that I've developed through decades of introspection and life experience - on her, denying her the same experience that allowed me to have the strong beliefs that I do.

    What you need to recognize is that they need to make decisions themselves in the context of their own lives, and learn the lessons for themselves.

    I'm glad for you that you've had whatever revelation you have had - now allow others to discover their paths in their own way, just as you did/

    The best thing you can do is simply tell them your story - of how you strayed and how you came back - and how you continue to lapse and seek forgiveness. Feel free to talk about yourself, and only yourself - but I'd advise that you not be judgemental of others or you'll continue to force many to turn away from your God, rather than towards him.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2006
  6. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Pardon me 3tobe4, but I wouldn't really be so proud to go around beating my chest stating that my religion is more noble and pure than pornography.

    As a father of two children, the choice you present is a bit like telling me to choose beteen living in Baghdad or Kabul.

    For such a high flyer, aren't you lowering the bar a bit?
     
  7. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    "It's also clear that you feel that others have wronged YOU for rejecting your call -"

    Again, really??? No. I feel wronged for being called names like disgusting, pathetic, an anti-semite, etc etc etc for doing so.
    If nobody accepts the call, thats fine. Just dont call me names for making the invitation.
     
  8. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    "There's a certain amount of distrust of those who have somehow convinced themselves that they are right and everyone else is wrong - that they've brainswashed themselves in some way - and desparately need to reinforce their beliefs by insisting that everyone believe the same as them."


    btw, the last sentence. the word "insisting"
     
  9. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I don't know.........I've heard good things about the Kabul school system.
     
  10. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    for one thing, according to the Bible, if Tyler Faith, or anyone else, has not accepted Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior she is already a sinner. But beyond that, sex outside out marriage is called "fornication" in the Bible.

    thats another reason im not into all this focusing on Gays that the Right Wing does to score points politically. Yes, technically, homosexuality is a sin. So is sex outside of marriage. So is lying. So is pride. So is arrogance. Envy. etc etc. Homosexuals are scapegoated because it scores points in winning elections. the motive behind the focus is dispicible. but i digress..........

    then, to take it further, someone who fornicates constantly for money, prostitutes themselves, i would call that sinning. Again, not to say its worse than other sins we commit, but the thought was brought up that "proselytizing" was a danger to our children somehow. And the same source didnt feel that way about Pornography. So i think its a fair question to ask what would concern a parent more. and the most tangible comparison would be ones daughter, although boys can turn out to be porn stars as well.

    but go ahead, tell me why "free love" is condoned and encouraged in your Bible.
     
  11. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    chalk up one father, who given the choice between their kids being porn stars and Christians, has no opinion.

    that really speaks well for your side now doesnt it?
     
  12. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Question to you, 3tobe4:

    Do you actually proselytize to children of other faiths? Without their parents permission?
     
  13. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Right you are! I guess I overlooked my own use of the word "insistance" -

    But am I wrong that you insist there is only one way to salvation?

    Ironically my beliefs are closer to yours than you might realize - but I don't think my way is the only way.

    Have you not said that the only way to salvation is through Jesus?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2006
  14. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Just what is Shmessy's "side"?

    And why this need to break this down to "sides" - are the "sides" those that believe as you and those who do not?

    I'm not the best Christian and not up to speed on all my theology, (as I do very much believe in the divinity and message of Christ) but aren't we all sinners?

    Aren't you a sinner yourself? In fact, aren't you and Tyler Faith, shmessy and myself, all sinners?

    Which one of us is the biggest sinner? Who is to say? Who is to judge?

    Surely not me.

    And most surely not you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2006
  15. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Wow, do you twist the words of people! Is this part of your sect's playbook method, to twist others' words? People on this board are pretty knowledgeable and can see through that amateur wordsmithing.

    Where do you get the idea I have no opinion? Just because I think Kabul and Baghdad are equally bad places for me to move to and raise my family doesn't mean I have no opinion of them.

    The choice as you originally put it wasn't merely between "porn stars and Christians", it was between porn stars and Christians LIKE YOU. If my daughter, at an AGE OF MAJORITY, decided to become a Christian, I would be saddened but would respect her decision. If she became a Christian LIKE YOU, she would obviously have become somewhat anti-social, disrespectful of others and, quite frankly, unbearable to most others. In that case, I would say our relationship would be rather strained.

    I'm beginning to think you may not be the brightest bulb in that Kansas suburb. And obviously, you have never been a parent.
     
  16. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    ABSOLUTELY NOT

    i am responding to 2 threads on this board that say my posts are something parents are to warned about.

    anything unclear about that?
     
  17. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    yes, you DO have an opinion of them. they are equally bad places. You say you think of it the same way. So pornography and Christianity are equally "bad
     
  18. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I think what might be driving shmessy's analogy is what he perceives as a warping of Christianity akin to the Crusades - where non believing heathens were murdered.

    Not everything associated with Christianity need be good.

    Do YOU feel the Crusades were good? How would you compare the the attrocities conducted in the name of Christ with something like pornography?
     
  19. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    That is not what I say. That is what the Bible says.

    So, yes, i could be PC and avoid the question like a lot of folks do in this feel good society. But I wont here. According to the Bible, "No one comes to the Father except through the Son"

    Not my rules.
     
  20. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Do you have ANY idea how pathetic you must seem to others here by warping what people say?

    I have already made the CLEAR distinction between Christianity and YOUR VERSION of Christianity.

    Keep up the obvious word twisting. You are beginning to cast yourself in an even worse light with your very own posts.
     

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