Question to people about McFadden

[NEfan32]

I've been sitting here and trying to come up with a way to put equal perspective on drafting McFadden if the opportunity presents itself. I came up with this.

For the people who want to trade the pick. What if McFadden is the next LT or Bo Jackson and we know that for a fact. Would you still want to trade the pick?

For the people, like me, who want to keep the pick and take McFadden. What if McFadden turns out to be a Cedric Benson or K'jana Carter. But there is a 30% chance of that happening. Would you still want to draft him?

My point is, people who want MacD are saying he is the next LT, so why would you trade that away because of money, because if they are LT they are worth the money. People who don't want the pick are saying, well he is going to be a bust and I don't want to take that chance and the money he will turn out to be a bust.

 

[mcsully]

I've been sitting here and trying to come up with a way to put equal perspective on drafting McFadden if the opportunity presents itself. I came up with this.

For the people who want to trade the pick. What if McFadden is the next LT or Bo Jackson and we know that for a fact. Would you still want to trade the pick?

For the people, like me, who want to keep the pick and take McFadden. What if McFadden turns out to be a Cedric Benson or K'jana Carter. But there is a 30% chance of that happening. Would you still want to draft him?

My point is, people who want MacD are saying he is the next LT, so why would you trade that away because of money, because if they are LT they are worth the money. People who don't want the pick are saying, well he is going to be a bust and I don't want to take that chance and the money he will turn out to be a bust.

Law of diminishing return states beyond some point, each additional unit of variable input yields less and less additional output. HOw much better does McFadden make the offense? There is only one ball to go around.

Up right runners have a short career.. And when paying big bucks like that, I tend to believe the pats will look else where or trade down.

The Peterson bandwagon is over.. He took one shot and has been out for a couple weeks..

The defense can use an injection of youth at Corner and LB (this is assuming Samuel leaves)



We trade down..

 

[patsox23]

I think the fact is we can't know. All we know is that the RB position is filled ably - perhaps to some not well enough or disappointingly or whatever - but it's certainly true that our RB roster is completely getting the job done. That is undeniable.

We will NEED LBs and CBs to replenish an aging LB corps and/or a thinning CB group. This is a HUGE, lucked-out, unique opportunity to do so in an enormously impactful way - with either a top 5 pick or the assets we receive in trade for a top 5 pick. To me it's a no-brainer that you don't pass that up on what would be, IMO, a luxury pick.

 

[NEfan32]

Ok, I ask this. IF WE DO NOT TRADE THE PICK, who do you take at number 2?

I also remind people, the Pats never draft LB's, and there is no corner worth drafting right now either in the top 5. No Deion Sanders-like player. Also, BB finds good corners in later rounds, aka Samuel, Sanders, Hobbs, Gay. Also, if they resign Asante, they won't need a corner badly.

 

[SVN]

in my opinion and iam going to get flamed for this, you dont need an LT to win many games and SB's.
A decent and good RB is sufficient along with a good D and a great defense. Times have changed so much that running the ball first is hardly the first preference. Its just old fashioned now to have the concept of "run the ball and stop the run" to win games.
Also chris mortenson brought this topic up last night and he said according to parcells, lot of teams dont want to invest in a top 5 pick in a RB because the life of RB's at their is 5-6 yrs which is a lot of money these days upfront for 5 yr player.
Adrian peterson and LT are great players and provide great highlights but they cannot do much other than provide frequent highlights.Imagine mcfadden in the backfield and brady throwing all over the field to moss and welker . The talk will be "is mcfadden a bust" ? LoMo is good enough for us in my opinion and he will only improve. Just my 2 cents.

 

[mcsully]

Ok, I ask this. IF WE DO NOT TRADE THE PICK, who do you take at number 2?

I also remind people, the Pats never draft LB's, and there is no corner worth drafting right now either in the top 5. No Deion Sanders-like player. Also, BB finds good corners in later rounds, aka Samuel, Sanders, Hobbs, Gay. Also, if they resign Asante, they won't need a corner badly.

BB never drafted a Guard in the 1st round until Mankins. And you make a good point about BB drafting corners in the later rounds.. WHy use the # 2 pick when you can get more players, later in the draft, for less money..

If we stay at # 2, I wouldn't be shocked to see us draft Dorsey, if he is there.. BB loves big men who can run..

We're moving back.. no question..

 

[NEfan32]

in my opinion and iam going to get flamed for this, you dont need an LT to win many games and SB's.
A decent and good RB is sufficient along with a good D and a great defense. Times have changed so much that running the ball first is hardly the first preference. Its just old fashioned now to have the concept of "run the ball and stop the run" to win games.
Also chris mortenson brought this topic up last night and he said according to parcells, lot of teams dont want to invest in a top 5 pick in a RB because the life of RB's at their is 5-6 yrs which is a lot of money these days upfront for 5 yr player.
Adrian peterson and LT are great players and provide great highlights but they cannot do much other than provide frequent highlights.Imagine mcfadden in the backfield and brady throwing all over the field to moss and welker . The talk will be "is mcfadden a bust" ? LoMo is good enough for us in my opinion and he will only improve. Just my 2 cents.

I agree about 5-6 shelf life, but my argument would be, if you have BOTH Maroney and McFadden splitting carries, aka McAllister/Bush, Jones/Barber, Taylor/Peterson, you make their career longer. So instead of 5-6 years, its 8-9 years.

 

[The Gr8est]

The last RB we drafted from Arkansas was Cedric Cobbs who was a bust. Now one of the reasons why Cobbs struggled was due to his lack of ability in the passing game, both as a receiver and in blocking for the pass. I do not follow the college game as closely as many here, so my question would be "Is the Arkansas offense still the same as the one that Cobbs played in"?

If so, I would think that McFadden's passing game skills would need work like Cobbs' did, and make him a lesser prospect as a result.

 

[mcsully]

I agree about 5-6 shelf life, but my argument would be, if you have BOTH Maroney and McFadden splitting carries, aka McAllister/Bush, Jones/Barber, Taylor/Peterson, you make their career longer. So instead of 5-6 years, its 8-9 years.

In today's NFL you would never be able to afford both for 8-9 years.

 

[SVN]

I agree about 5-6 shelf life, but my argument would be, if you have BOTH Maroney and McFadden splitting carries, aka McAllister/Bush, Jones/Barber, Taylor/Peterson, you make their career longer. So instead of 5-6 years, its 8-9 years.

but in this new style of offense how many carries do we have right now to split.? Two #1 picks is a lot of money and investment. if maroney was 4-5 yrs into his carreer mcfadden may make sense .
My observation is that you dont need a great RB to win and be successful. Every time i hear analysts that green bay doesnt have a running game and in the past they said the same about philadelphia i always wondered.
Even this yr everyone is saying LT should get more touches. He isnt superman to run through 8-9 men in the box. The fact that their QB and WR's suck make him useless. On the flip side if he has a great QB and WR's he doesnt need to be LT, a decent good running back is sufficient.

 

[tombonneau]

Ok, I ask this. IF WE DO NOT TRADE THE PICK, who do you take at number 2?

I also remind people, the Pats never draft LB's, and there is no corner worth drafting right now either in the top 5. No Deion Sanders-like player. Also, BB finds good corners in later rounds, aka Samuel, Sanders, Hobbs, Gay. Also, if they resign Asante, they won't need a corner badly.

If they stay at two I'm fairly confident they'll take whoever is remaining between dorsey and long. IMO those are the only two players worth taking at that spot.

 

[VJCPatriot]

If they stay at two I'm fairly confident they'll take whoever is remaining between dorsey and long. IMO those are the only two players worth taking at that spot.

Or McFadden, if he is available.

 

[BPF]

The last RB we drafted from Arkansas was Cedric Cobbs who was a bust. Now one of the reasons why Cobbs struggled was due to his lack of ability in the passing game, both as a receiver and in blocking for the pass. I do not follow the college game as closely as many here, so my question would be "Is the Arkansas offense still the same as the one that Cobbs played in"?

If so, I would think that McFadden's passing game skills would need work like Cobbs' did, and make him a lesser prospect as a result.

There is simply no comparison between the two players. McFadden is an all around talent. He has speed, he can catch and he can throw. He is a great football player. Cobbs was a one trick pony and an average one at that. It's way too early to tell who the Pats would take but it's clear that at this point McFadden would be the #1 player on most teams draft boards.

 

[VJCPatriot]

There is simply no comparison between the two players. McFadden is an all around talent. He has speed, he can catch and he can throw. He is a great football player. Cobbs was a one trick pony and an average one at that. It's way too early to tell who the Pats would take but it's clear that at this point McFadden would be the #1 player on most teams draft boards.

And a voice of reason is heard!

 

[maseda17]

If they are forced to pick #2 I'd like them to take McFadden. I think he is a very sure thing. What do we care about the signing bonus, it has no effect on the cap. It appears as though Asante is going to walk so there is money freed up even with an extension of Moss because if Moss is looking for that 8-9m a year he won't be resigned.

 

[dryheat44]

What do we care about the signing bonus, it has no effect on the cap.

WHAT???????

 

[patchick]

For the people who want to trade the pick. What if McFadden is the next LT or Bo Jackson and we know that for a fact. Would you still want to trade the pick?

In fact, I would. I'm going to quote myself from another thread...

Let's just assume for the sake of argument that the Pats are disappointed in Maroney and think McFadden is a Pro Bowl talent. I still wouldn't dream of taking him in the top 5. In the current NFL game that privileges the passing game above all, with Tom Brady at QB, I would not spend $10 million/year on ANY running back.

I just look at this team with the likes of Moss, Wilfork and Mankins needing to get paid, and upcoming gaps at CB and ILB, and the offense currently setting all kinds of records...and I don't think an RB is a good use of $10 million. Nothing against McFadden, it's just a matter of priorities. I said early on that a franchise LT, a shutdown CB and a pass-rushing-havoc OLB are the only positions I could see shelling out for at the top of the draft and I'm sticking to that. For now.

 

[JaredOfNazareth]

In fact, I would. I'm going to quote myself from another thread...



I just look at this team with the likes of Moss, Wilfork and Mankins needing to get paid, and upcoming gaps at CB and ILB, and the offense currently setting all kinds of records...and I don't think an RB is a good use of $10 million. Nothing against McFadden, it's just a matter of priorities. I said early on that a franchise LT, a shutdown CB and a pass-rushing-havoc OLB are the only positions I could see shelling out for at the top of the draft and I'm sticking to that. For now.

I couldn't agree more. It is about priorities. When you have an offense that may break the single season record for points scored you do not need more weapons on offense. Tackle is the only offensive position that would benefit the team. Maybe an RB in round three at the highest. I don't care if Barry Sanders is there for the taking in the top five. Trade down and take Gholston, Sam Baker, or Jenkins CB from OSU.

 

[cstjohn17]

For the people, like me, who want to keep the pick and take McFadden. What if McFadden turns out to be a Cedric Benson or K'jana Carter. But there is a 30% chance of that happening. Would you still want to draft him?

My point is, people who want MacD are saying he is the next LT, so why would you trade that away because of money, because if they are LT they are worth the money. People who don't want the pick are saying, well he is going to be a bust and I don't want to take that chance and the money he will turn out to be a bust.

I don't want to keep the pick, but if there are no trade options then I think if Mcfadden is there at 4 then you take him (assuming Jake Long is gone). It is not my money and he would improve the team.

Again, I don't like it, I don't want it but we are 'stuck' with the pick then taking McFadden wouldn't make me cry.

I would feel better if he was one of those rare ILB/CB hybrids that can help the Patriots at two positions of critical need.

 

[patchick]

I like this thread because it gets beyond Maroney bashing to actually talk about decisions to be made. Thanks, NEfan32 -- and here's one back at you:

Assuming again that McFadden is the real deal, would you rather have McFadden or Asante Samuel?

I think it's a realistic question, their contracts should be fairly close. You'd be looking at 2008 with the following players under contract...

Scenario 1
RB: Maroney, Morris, Faulk, Evans
CB: Samuel, Hobbs, Richardson, E. Jackson

vs.

Scenario 2
RB: McFadden, Maroney, Morris, Faulk, Evans
CB: Hobbs, Richardson, E. Jackson

Note that in Scenario 1 you'd also have extra draft picks, something like a mid-round #1 and #2.