Question for Patriots Fans - Please Help me Understand

[Lloyd_Christmas]

On your original point, I don't think the refs are against us. I believe they call the game to try to keep it close. Obviously, we are not talking about all the crews, only some of them.

Because our scoring was so prolific, it seems like some crews let the other teams get away with more to try to even out the odds and make the game more interesting. It may have been subconscious, but I believed it happened in the Indy game as well as the Ravens game. Some might argue that it has happend in other games as well. Those are the 2 that stick out in my mind.

In both of those games, when the game looked lost for the Pats, the refs backed off a bit and called the game they way they should have all along. In the Raven's case, they had begun to take for granted that they would not be flagged, and they were not happy that all of a sudden, the game was being called properly.

We fans call the coaches, GMs, and players of other teams Whiners... not the fans... at least that's what I see. I think as fans, we have a right to gripe. Players, coaches, and GMs should make their complaints in confidence to the officials, not the press. Polian always seems to make a big fanfare out of his complaints and what the Ravens did/said was ridiculous.

 

[FootballFan85]

The NE cameraman was on the Pats sideline, which is why he was able to film the Jets sideline.

You have the rule way wrong, and you apparently didn't follow the story too closely; it has everything to do with the filming area not being enclosed and being accessible to staff during the game.

Um no. From everything in the media (at least in this part of the country), the cameraman was on Manginis sideline.

 

[FootballFan85]

and what the Ravens did/said was ridiculous.

That I agree with.

 

[Fixit]

Um no. From everything in the media (at least in this part of the country), the cameraman was on Manginis sideline.

Interesting, seeing as there was leaked videotape.

 

[FootballFan85]

Interesting, seeing as there was leaked videotape.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7216044

"NFL security confiscated a video camera and tape from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella on Sunday when he was working on the New York Jets' sideline during New England's 38-14 victory. The league has confirmed that it is investigating whether the Patriots were taping the Jets' defensive coaches as they signaled to players on the field."

 

[Fixit]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7216044

"NFL security confiscated a video camera and tape from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella on Sunday when he was working on the New York Jets' sideline during New England's 38-14 victory. The league has confirmed that it is investigating whether the Patriots were taping the Jets' defensive coaches as they signaled to players on the field."

I'm pretty sure they confronted him on the way to the locker room. The videotape clearly shows him taping from New England's sideline.

Regardless, which sideline he was taping from is irrelevant.

 

[FootballFan85]

I'm pretty sure they confronted him on the way to the locker room. The videotape clearly shows him taping from New England's sideline.

Regardless, which sideline he was taping from is irrelevant.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/mcclain/5377850.html

"Still, the Jets turned in the Patriots in the season opener for videotaping signals from the visiting bench area"

I havent seen any leaked footage, Im just telling you what was in the media around here, and that was that the taping was done from the Jets side.

 

[Fixit]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/09/12/nfl_reportedly_faults_patriots/

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3012989

 

[FootballFan85]

Boston.com might be a bit biased

But ESPN is not. Strange ESPNs story contradicts FOX Sports story.

Now Im not so sure.

Does anyone know what he looks like?
Most of the pictures seem to indicate this:
http://images.sportsbybrooks.com/7/f/7f87f2146c0b403c3af0eaf11161c92c_belichickcameraman.jpg

In which case hes on the Jets sidelines, but again, Ive never seen the guy so who knows if thats him.

 

[Ethan 55]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/mcclain/5377850.html

"Still, the Jets turned in the Patriots in the season opener for videotaping signals from the visiting bench area"

I havent seen any leaked footage, Im just telling you what was in the media around here, and that was that the taping was done from the Jets side.

The Patriots were the visitor that day, so this jives with it being on the Pats sideline. Plus the video was on TV and it's a head-on shot. If he were on the Jets sideline he'd be filming the guy's back.

 

[Fixit]

Boston.com might be a bit biased

But ESPN is not. Strange ESPNs story contradicts FOX Sports story.

Now Im not so sure.

Anyway, it makes no difference which sideline he was taping from. What does make a difference to us Pats fans is that Mangini has admitted to taping from an equally-unauthorized location and so far hasn't been disciplined whatsoever.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

Which is why I appologized for bringing it up.

While I dont agree it was the correct call as the rule is written, I brought it up more as a demonstration that what one team considers "the refs out to get them" another team considers "the right call".

When you guys see a player make contact with Randy Moss 6 yards past scrimage, you say "thats a violation, we just got screwed", while the other team sees it as something so insignifiant as to not matter. Its insignifianct but its a rule.

Likewise, when Randy Moss puts his hand on a corner and gives a little love nudge, you guys see it as insignifianct, which it is, BUT its still against the rules. The refs call it, you guys go nuts, the refs dont call it, the other team goes nuts.

It goes both ways and every team around the league has fans that feel THEY are the ones getting screwed.

Thats been my point the whole thread.

Fair enough on the apology. I missed it.

As for the rest, like I said... that was years ago and it was only ONE call. I wouldn't complain about a single call. I look at trends within games since looking beyond a game involves different officials.

 

[Fixit]

Boston.com might be a bit biased

But ESPN is not. Strange ESPNs story contradicts FOX Sports story.

Now Im not so sure.

Does anyone know what he looks like?
Most of the pictures seem to indicate this:
http://images.sportsbybrooks.com/7/f/7f87f2146c0b403c3af0eaf11161c92c_belichickcameraman.jpg

In which case hes on the Jets sidelines, but again, Ive never seen the guy so who knows if thats him.

That photo was debunked. The cameraman is real, but he's not a Pats employee. Another thing that was never quite explained.

 

[FootballFan85]

That photo was debunked. The cameraman is real, but he's not a Pats employee. Another thing that was never quite explained.

Ah fair enough

Removed

 

[Fixit]

Ah fair enough

That then begs the question if hes not the Pats guy, and hes clearly not wearing the vest, does that make him a Jets guy doing the same thing going the other way?

Oh, you should have been here that week.

 

[FootballFan85]

Oh, you should have been here that week.

Lol in that case Ill edit my post as to not reopen any giant cans of worms.

 

[CrazyDave]

The whole point of the rule is to eliminate the refs trying to guess what the QB was going to do. So if the ball is in the process of moving forward, even slowly, it's an incomplete pass. Whether you've got one, two, or ten hands on the ball makes no difference. (2-handed shovel passes have happened. )It's all about the forward motion of the arm.

Now, common sense does tell you he wasn't going to throw that ball. It's plain as day. However, the rule exists like that because there are other cases where it's close enough that the ref would be left guessing as to whether the intent was to pump fake or to throw it. So to remove that aspect, the rule is simple. If the ball has any forward motion at all, it's an incomplete pass.

There you have it.The right call... period.
What other team's fans think does'nt matter, most of them are clueless anyway. Just like we're cheaters and our coach is a jerk.
I think other coaches are jerks. I don't like Dungy, or Fisher.
The OP sounds like thinly veiled baiting.
A stupid topic from the get-go. "why do pats fans complain so much?"
Because we have to deal with so many people like you.

 

[Mayday Malone]

http://www.provencehome.org/refsuck/images/passfumble.gif


Hopefully this works for the OP. All bets are off after the blow to the head, IMO.

 

[FootballFan85]

http://www.provencehome.org/refsuck/images/passfumble.gif


Hopefully this works for the OP. All bets are off after the blow to the head, IMO.

Good view. I dont disagree. After seeing that view there was definitely contact that shouldve been called.

 

[Hollywood_Brady]

its the "us against the world" mentality... being undefeated and still having a chip on the shoulder... go pats..