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Question/Clarity on Washington's Blocked Punt

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by AirForcePatFan, Dec 17, 2007.

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  1. AirForcePatFan

    AirForcePatFan Rookie

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    When Washington blocked the punt, it looked like a Jets player recovered the ball... So, if a punt is blocked, does the ball automatically go the receiving team regardless of who recovers it? I haven't seen that before, and I've always assumed that however recovers the ball, it's that teams ball... Clarification, please?!?!?
  2. ShrewBeer

    ShrewBeer Rookie

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    4th down turnover on downs
  3. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    I beleive it becomes a loose ball, but it the JEST had recovered it, they'd have had to gotten 1st down yardage in order to keep it. On a blocked punt , it would almost never happen though.
  4. AirForcePatFan

    AirForcePatFan Rookie

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    Ah, now that makes sense... Thanks...
  5. AirForcePatFan

    AirForcePatFan Rookie

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    Thanks.. That had been bugging me... Thanks for clarifying...
  6. pats63

    pats63 Rookie

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    Sweet block he has been a beast on "ST".....I think he earning a spot for '08...
  7. AirForcePatFan

    AirForcePatFan Rookie

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    It was a good block, if not a little unexpected... He really shined on Sunday in ST...
  8. ShrewBeer

    ShrewBeer Rookie

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    if you wanna get technical,
    once the ball is touched by the punter's foot, it is considered a punt. once it is considered a punt, the the offense cannot advance the ball, only lose yardage. so if a punt is blocked, and the punters foot touched the ball, the punting team cannot recover and run for a first down, only secure the ball and turn it over where the ball is recovered. however, the opposite is true in that if the punter does not touch the ball with his foot, the ball can be advanced to the first down marker to get a new set of downs. also, if one were to punt or kick on 3rd down for some reason (ive seen kicks), once the ball is touched with the foot, your set of downs is over. so if you had a blocked punt or kick on 3rd down and you recovered it, you cannot get another shot even though you still would have 4th down. you just turn it over.
  9. PatsFaninAZ

    PatsFaninAZ Rookie

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    I'm pretty certain this isn't correct. Kicks from scrimmage (punts and field goals) are live balls if they hit a defender before the line of scrimmage and do not pass the line of scrimmage before they are next touched. At the point, the kicking team can recover, advance the ball, pass the ball, or rekick the ball. If the line of gain isn't made, it's either the next down, or if the kick (as is usually the case) was on fourth down it's a turnover on downs.

    Punts that are blocked but make it past the line of scrimmage are treated like any other punt. If they are touched by the non-kicking team, it's a live ball (or "muff") and may be recovered by the kicking team. A kicked ball that is blocked that goes past the line of scrimmage and is touched by the kicking team is dead there, just as on any punt.

    Perhaps are you thinking of the rule that says a ball recovered by the kicking team past the line of scrimmage can't be advanced?

    A blocked punt that does not make it past the line of scrimmage is totally fair game. See number 4 in this link from the NFL's digest of rules. http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/kicksfromscrimmage

    Edit: Just a statistical point of interest regarding this rule: The block of the jets punt actually goes down statistically as a turnover on downs.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2007
  10. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Close. I believe once a kick (punt or FG) crosses the LOS, possession effectively changes. You can advance a block as long as it hasn't crossed the LOS. Once it crosses, if the kicking team touches the ball first it is considered an "illegal touching" penalty. The penalty is just change of possession at that spot so it is rarely called as such.

    This is why you sometimes see the situation where a member of the kicking team touches a punt (but doesn't down it) and a member of the return team charges in to try to advance the ball. There is no downside to the returning team since even if they fumble, they get the ball back because of the "illegal touching" penalty.

    A situation I've never seen before is a team kicking a FG on 3rd down and getting it blocked. If the ball doesn't go past the LOS and the kicking team recovers, do they get to try another kick? I think that they do but I've never seen it happen.
  11. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    Sorry, didn't see that you got there first.
  12. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    Blocked kicks -- punts or field goal attempts -- that do not pass the line of scrimmage can be recovered by the kicking team (offense) and advanced for a first down or a touchdown.
  13. ShrewBeer

    ShrewBeer Rookie

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    sorry- missed the LOS point detail.
  14. PatsFaninAZ

    PatsFaninAZ Rookie

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    Yup. I think it's also more technically accurate to say they get another down if the ball is first touched by a defender behind the LOS and then next touched again before the LOS, regardless of where the ball actually ends up.

    You could have a scenario where the ball actually does get past the LOS, but it would still be the kicking team's ball. For example, blocked field goal comes back to the kicker, he tries to gather it up and run with it, but ends up batting it forward, where it's kicked and batted by other players trying to get it and goes past the LOS. If the kicking team recovers it now, it's still 4th down even though it's past the LO (Or a TD or a 1st down if they made the line to gain).
  15. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    That's what I thought too. Thanks, I was going from memory.
  16. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    There was a game earlier in the year, where a team was punting, and I believe the ball was blocked. That team recovered the ball for a first down. I had never seen that before.
  17. godef

    godef Rookie

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    I believe thatthe ball has to make it to the line of scrimmage to be officially considered a punt, otherwise it is a turnover. If the kicking team picks it up, they can run for a first down since a punt has not occurred.
  18. JJP

    JJP Rookie

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    According to the Official Rules of the NFL, Rule 9 (Scrimmage Kick), Article 4: "When a kick is from behind the line, any touching on or behind the line by any offensive player is legal and any player may recover and advance."

    So when Washington blocked the punt, it was behind the LOS, and a live ball for either side. It was "recovered" by the Jets; however, as the recovery occurred well behind the LOS in reality it was a net loss of yardage for the Jets on fourth down. Therefore the play resulted in a turnover on downs to the Patriots, and very favorable field position as a result (on the 3-yard line as memory serves).
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2007
  19. godef

    godef Rookie

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    OK, but that rule as quoted doesn't indicate whether this is considered a current or new possession, only that they may pick up the ball and advance. The original question basically asked if, to paraphrase, upon a punt being blocked, has the punting team already given up possession, so that if a member fo the punting team recovers, it is a first down. The answer is no, the punting team never gave up possession of the ball, so it is still 4th down and whatever it was.
  20. JJP

    JJP Rookie

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    The rule establishes the blocked kick, behind the LOS, as a live ball. It doesn't matter what procedure is being employed by the offensive team on fourth down, it matters whether the ball is alive or dead, and the position of the ball at the end of the play. Say the Jets tried a fake punt and the punter ran the ball, but was cut short of the first down, the result would be the same: over on downs. In the case in point the punt was blocked by Washington and as it was behind the LOS it was a live ball. If the Jets scooped up the ball after Washington blocked it, and the recovering Jet, instead of falling on the football ran forward and gained enough yards for a first down, then it would have been first and ten, Jets. What happened is that the recovering Jet fell on the ball and was down by contact at the Jets' 3-yard line. The reason that ball turned over on downs was then when the ball went from live to dead it didn't even make it back to the LOS, never mind gaining enough ground for first yardage. That is the critical issue: where was the rock when the play was called dead. Answer: deep behind the original LOS. Net result: over on downs to Patriots.
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