Question about OL

[Poll]

As a reason for a poor running game, the makeshift OL is mentioned with 2 rookies on it.
But on the other hand, people say that the OL will be great/good next year.

Does the addition of Light and Koppen just make this happen? Are we being too enthusiastic?

 

[dalero]

I don't know many OLs that wouldn't be improved with the addition of Koppen and Light.

 

[Poll]

But are Mankins and Kaczur instantly that much better?

 

[dalero]

Unless the "Sophmore Jinx" hits, yes I think with a year under their belts they will be better.

 

[3 to be 4]

add Light, Koppen, to what the rookies were able to accomplish last year and add another good draft pick and i think OL is a major strength in 2006.
Also, the secondary.
Add Harrison, Eric Warfield, Tebucky Jones (with a coach who knows how to get the most from him), and possibly Law to Wilson,Samuel, Hobbs, and Gay??
that sounds fine too me!!
its the LB position i worry about.

 

[JR4]

Posted on this topic elsewhere but revised here
I feel there could be unexpected changes on the OLine.
The Only sure starter I see is Mankins.

Assume Light and Koppen are recovered enough to compete.
Injury recovery is only reason that either of these guys lose their jobs.
Kaczur could compete with Light but he'll probably win out over RT competition as of today.

O'Callaghan, I read, is projected as an NFL Guard and that changes things
quite a bit. He could compete and win out over Neal. He has the size
and power advantage and from what I read he could be a significant upgrade.

For Neal supporters, remember Neal was a FA and couldn't land a job
elsewhere. There was a reason for that.
Even though BB brought him back, I believe this is one position the saying
"the best man will get the job " ... will really apply.

I hope O'Callaghan is all he is suppose to be because this is one position,
at the beginning of the off season, I was really hoping would get upgraded.
I like Stephen, nice guy, but he just got out matched too often. He would
provide real good backup up insurance and get paid well for it if
O'Callaghan wins out.

The backup group will be highly competitive and we will probably see
some unexpected changes there.

 

[pats1]

As I've said before, I don't think Light's recovery is any problem. Recall that the Patriots - the PRIMARY source - kept him on the roster until December, even though he was injured in September.

Why? Because they, being the closest witnesses to his rehab, thought he would still be ready to start in the playoffs. When they finally saw that wouldn't happen, late in the season, they put him on the I.R. to end his season.

And we know how Beioli values Patriot roster spots...

 

[arrellbee]

Posted on this topic elsewhere but revised here
I feel there could be unexpected changes on the OLine.
The Only sure starter I see is Mankins.

Assume Light and Koppen are recovered enough to compete.
Injury recovery is only reason that either of these guys lose their jobs.
Kaczur could compete with Light but he'll probably win out over RT competition as of today.

O'Callaghan, I read, is projected as an NFL Guard and that changes things
quite a bit. He could compete and win out over Neal. He has the size
and power advantage and from what I read he could be a significant upgrade.

For Neal supporters, remember Neal was a FA and couldn't land a job
elsewhere. There was a reason for that.
Even though BB brought him back, I believe this is one position the saying
"the best man will get the job " ... will really apply.

I hope O'Callaghan is all he is suppose to be because this is one position,
at the beginning of the off season, I was really hoping would get upgraded.
I like Stephen, nice guy, but he just got out matched too often. He would
provide real good backup up insurance and get paid well for it if
O'Callaghan wins out.

The backup group will be highly competitive and we will probably see
some unexpected changes there.

I think maybe a couple other things figure into the mix, perhaps.

Neal will be 30 in October. But he is is pretty solid and experienced and will be hard to beat out.

It is my impression that Belichick likes to rotate OL to keep them fresh if he has a chance. He will certainly be in a much stronger position to do that this year it looks like. I think that will be interesting to watch.

O'Callaghan is a 5th round pick - I'm not sure you can really expect him to win a starting job (usual caveat - with BB, you never know). He has BIG size as a plus (343#) but may not have the quickness to pull - that will have to figure into pass protection and the type of running plays. Maybe he is a plus on running downs with Corey Dillon up the gut but maybe not so strong for Maroney or Faulk style running or pass/run option downs. Just a thought.

 

[patchick]

As I've said before, I don't think Light's recovery is any problem. Recall that the Patriots - the PRIMARY source - kept him on the roster until December, even though he was injured in September.

The signs do look good for Light, but I'm more concerned about Koppen -- I wouldn't even be surprised to see him on the PUP list. A severe rotator cuff tear is nasty business for a guy who relies so much on arm strength.

 

[drpatriot]

But are Mankins and Kaczur instantly that much better?

No, but after practice and playing for a season they have become much better. The line played better in the playoffs than it did in October.

 

[spacecrime]

But are Mankins and Kaczur instantly that much better?

Not instantly, but between last January and next September I expect them to improve. An NFL off-season, with workouts geared to thier position, not the Combine tests, gong through training camp, this time understanding better the plays and nuances, etc.

Most rookies make a jump between rookie and sophomore season. I don't expect them to play like rookies next year.

 

[mgteich]

Light,Mankins,Koppen,Neal,Kaczur

Which should NOT be expected to be better than last year? Perhaps Neal.

And are not Hochstein and Gorin better than last year's backups.

This presumes that O'Callaghan and Tucker don't take away one of the backup spots or even a starting spot.

----------------------------------------------
This group is a much stronger unit that played last October. By mid-season, it should be much better than the unit that played in playoffs.

 

[braveht]

re: Neal

BB/SP just spent $3.2M in signing Neal to a 4 yr $10.5 M deal. I don't think they would have done that if they imagined (as some posters do) that a 2nd day draftee could beat him.

 

[patsox23]

Mankins and Kaczur - besides now benefiting from the into-the-fire experience of their rookie seasons - WERE NOT THE PROBLEM LAST YEAR so their improvement seems a kind of tangential point here. If we can add Koppen and Light to those two, who were arguably the stalwarts of what was otherwise a spotty, inconsistent OL, we'll be more than fine.

Do people honestly think THOSE two were the problem? I thought they were, more than any, the silver lining on the cloud of offensive line play in 2005.

 

[JR4]

BB/SP just spent $3.2M in signing Neal to a 4 yr $10.5 M deal. I don't think they would have done that if they imagined (as some posters do) that a 2nd day draftee could beat him.

Let me ask you a question. If O'Callaghan is what some say he is and
is put in competition with Neal and shows himself to be the better guard
do you really think BB would say to himself , well I spent 3.2M in signing
Neal so I got to stay with him?

IMO, If Neal starts over someone else it is because he is better in the eyes
of the coaching staff ... not because of the money paid or not paid.

 

[arrellbee]

Let me ask you a question. If O'Callaghan is what some say he is and
is put in competition with Neal and shows himself to be the better guard
do you really think BB would say to himself , well I spent 3.2M in signing
Neal so I got to stay with him?

IMO, If Neal starts over someone else it is because he is better in the eyes
of the coaching staff ... not because of the money paid or not paid.

I think you have an excellent point. Anyone who doesn't think so should remember Starks and to a certain extent Poole (500K).

But I'm curious about what seems so positive about a 5th round pick like O'Callaghan. It seems like his main positive is that he is just a big bruiser. But there is a LOT more to playing OG than just being a big bruiser. In fact, that may be one of the lesser of the qualifications ?? ?? ??

 

[jczxohn1]

Neal/ O'Callahan will be rotated, IMO. Neal's strength is in pulling, pass protection was a problem last year. He will probably start, O'C may become part of a short-ydg, goal-line Jumbo pkg, possibly with Britt. As the season rolls on, he may be in on obvious passing downs if he seems better than Neal in pass protection. Neal may well improve, last yr was only his 2nd as a full time starter.

 

[mgteich]

I expect that Neal will start. I agree with his re-signing. That being said, I would be happy enough if someone beat Neal out. That would mean that the team is a better team.

BB/SP just spent $3.2M in signing Neal to a 4 yr $10.5 M deal. I don't think they would have done that if they imagined (as some posters do) that a 2nd day draftee could beat him.

 

[JR4]

........
But I'm curious about what seems so positive about a 5th round pick like O'Callaghan. It seems like his main positive is that he is just a big bruiser. But there is a LOT more to playing OG than just being a big bruiser. In fact, that may be one of the lesser of the qualifications ?? ?? ??

Here is one scouting report ... was posted the other day

Scouting Report: A two-time All-American, Callaghan is capable of simply flattening defensive linemen. While not an elite athlete, O'Callaghan has all the other ingredients NFL scouts and coaches look for when building an offensive line. O'Callaghan had great success in college thanks to his superb size and power, but also because he's a solid tactician who plays with constant intensity and a real edge. He was out-and-out dominant at the college level plowing the field for Cal's rushing game, but he isn't likely to be able to just manhandle defenders in the NFL. That said, his prospects for pro success are excellent. He's a true warrior and a team-first type, one who will battle on every down. His lack of lateral mobility and quickness make him a bit of a liability picking up pass rushers so a move to guard is likely. O'Callaghan also needs to prove he can stay on the field, as injuries have hurt him in the past. All in all, he's a bona fide NFL O-lineman.


http://www.forecaster.ca/dallasnews/football/draft-team.cgi?NE&DraftID=11#7808

Besides this I was listening to a JETs fan talk about him. He watched him a lot and is a pretty knowlegable fan and thought O'Callaghan was a steal.
Guess will know soon.

 

[jczxohn1]

Here is one scouting report ... was posted the other day

O'Callaghan also needs to prove he can stay on the field, as injuries have hurt him in the past. All in all, he's a bona fide NFL O-lineman.
/quote

Inaccurate. Despite operations to both shoulders and a broken hand, he missed no more than one game in college.

Somewhere there is a picture of him biting the head off a duck.(Hello, Oregon.) Maybe we can get him to redo that with a fish.