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Putin---Georgia---Death

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Harry Boy, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Do you know what the issue is? The South Ossetians want independence and have largely achieved it. They have far closer relations to the Russians than the Georgians. Despite that, the world regards South Ossetia as part of Georgia. The North Ossetians are part of Russia. The Georgians invaded South Ossetia to try to reclaim them, but Russia defended it's ally, the largely autonomous South Ossetia. Why don't you see South Ossetia like the other Soviet states (such as Latvia and Lithuania) and support their right to self-determination?

    And frankly those pictures pale in comparison to photos from our war on Iraq.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2008
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ok-------------
     
  4. Richter

    Richter In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think part of the problem is that Russia has long acknowledged Georgia's sovereignty and its claim to South Ossetia. South Ossetia is only around 70,000 people. It's hard to justify a full scale land war against another nation over an autonomous region within that nation, no matter how close ties are with the government of that region. And what changed that Russia suddenly doesn't recognize Georgia's claim to the region, despite having done so since 1991? The story describes the territory as "disputed", but it hasn't been in dispute by anyone (including Russia) but the South Ossetians since that time. Something more is at work than Russia altruistically riding in to the aid of Ossetia like a white knight. As for whether Ossetia should in fact receive independence, or more likely annexation by Russia... I'm not about to offer an opinion. Just don't believe that Russia isn't acting in its self interests here.
     
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just to be clear, I certainly don't mean to defend Putin who probably took steps to provoke this situation. It is a complicated story, especially given this

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_ossetia

    "The modern-day South Ossetia was annexed by Russia in 1801, along with Georgia proper, and absorbed into the Russian Empire. Following the Russian Revolution, South Ossetia became a part of the Menshevik Georgian Democratic Republic, while the north became a part of the Terek Soviet Republic."

    Apparently, there's general agreement that the South Ossetians want to be independent and associated with Russia, not Georgia. Why the international community is respecting Soviet era boundaries is probably political.

    It seems to me it's a messy situation with no easy answer, but certainly Georgia's incursion was really stupid, and Putin's retaliation was equally stupid.
     
  6. Richter

    Richter In the Starting Line-Up

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    The south Ossetians have long been considered Russian, and identify ethnically as Russians, so it is something of a mystery why, when the U.S.S.R dissolved, and Georgia gained its independence, South Ossetia did not become part of Russia. But that was the agreement at the time, and the international community respected it, so it is what it is, to quote a certain accomplished coach. Georgia was probably going to attempt some sort of ethnic cleansing, but that isn't why Russia went in. They wouldn't be bombing Georgian civilian targets and strategic locations outside of South Ossetia otherwise.
     
  7. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

  8. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey


    In another thread I think Georgia used the Olympics in this case. Perhaps thinking Russia would do nothing until the Olympics were over.
    I agree with your post above ... the media is portraying Russia as the bad guys but I don't think that's the case.
     
  9. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I agree. My first knee-jerk-uninformed reaction was anger against the Russians. Then I actually read about the situation and its background and believe the Georgians are probably more at fault there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2008
  10. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey


    Sometimes I wonder why Obama wants to be President. He's a good intelligent senator with a nice wife and 2 kids ... he needs his head examined.
     
  11. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Imagine the good he could have done in the poor neighborhoods with all the money that is being spent to get him a job that only pays about $400,000 a year.

    He better not have anything hidden in his closet the wretched rotten Clintons will find it and we all will surely know about it in October.

    Messiah Obama ties his ears down when he sleeps.
     
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    The rest of the world wants us to stay out of things which don't involve us so . . . have at it.
     
  13. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    you could say that of every presedential nominee
     

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