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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by tatepatsfan, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. tatepatsfan

    tatepatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Neither George Bush nor Howard Dean is the "enemy of America"...

    I read these boards frequently but don't comment because of the nature of the posts.

    I am politically moderate, yes I have very sharp and well formed opinions of both parties and their ideologies, and do associate myself with one of the major parties.

    But calling the "head" of either party the enemy of America is ridiculous. The polarizing effect of political extremism is terrible for this country. Most Americans are either slightly liberal or slightly conservative, and generally non-combative when they talk politics. There is no service done by blasting political opponents, and this is not just limited to us.

    Let's take Ted Kennedy, whom I consider to be the most liberal senator, and John Cornyn, whom I consider to be the most conservative (obviously both titles can be open for debate). Simply blasting the other side for disagreement is not the way a functional democracy ought to work. America craves compromise, and until it happens, the political debate will only grow more and more combative, and less and less effective.

    Just my two cents
  2. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good post, your to smart for this forum, liberal sore loser Bush haters make me sick and I make liberal sore loser Bush haters sick.
    :bricks:
  3. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    Tatepatsfan...you are 100% correct and I'm glad you said it. But some here are so polarized and so emotional about politics that it's hard for them to see any virtue in the other side. Keep plugging away. I will join you.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2005
  4. gomezcat

    gomezcat It's SIR Moderator to you Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great post. The problem is that people of most nationalities will vote for the "least bad" option as they see it. They don't join their local party, they don't make a noise at local level and they leave parties to the people whose main interest is power and fame. I think that what would surprise most people is how MUCH they have in common, not how little. As an example, everyone on this board believes in democracy, most of us believe in the free market, most care about poverty and everyone would rather avoid war than fight as a first option. Most people agree that dangerous criminals should be locked up and that it is a good thing that we have armed forces to defend ourselves. Anyone care to disagree with the above, WITHOUT REFERRING TO WHAT YOU THINK ARE YOUR OPPONENTS' VIEWS?
  5. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    NEM, by their measurements, they are just as patriotic as you are. They are doing what they think is right. Their motive is not to sabotage the US, it is to make it stronger and safer. You and I both believe they are dead wrong in practically everything they do, but that's not the point, and it's probably not correct.

    NEM, it is obvious how strongly you feel about this, but the Republicans and/or the Conservatives are not devils. They are not idiots either. They are worth listening to. And if we expect them to listen to us, to respect us, to consider our ideas, we must do the same for them.

    I said this before, but I cannot say it too often: We all want the same thing. We disagree about the way to achieve it. But the truth may well include ideas and policies from both of us.

    I cannot remember a time in history, or a nation in history, that has succeeded by following an extremist policy, liberal or conservative. The nations that persevere, the nations that survive, are those that stick to the middle.

    It happens, NEM, that you and I generally agree. But we do not agree at all about tone or rhetoric. I think your rhetoric only drives those you disagree with to extremes. (And some of them are guilty of the same, but I'm not talking about them.).

    Polarization is one of the greatest dangers the America we both love faces today. What are you doing to reduce it?
  6. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    You are a true believer, NEM. True Believers, by definition, cannot see both sides of the argument. True Believers are beyond persuasion. At worst, True Believers are capable of doing anything to enforce their beliefs. They are not subject to persuasion. Their minds are closed.

    I have to admit I'm uncomfortable with True Believers, even when I agree with them. I always want to at least hear what the other guy has to say. I want to judge it afresh. I have preconceptions, but I try to suspend them and determine the validity of a position on its merits.

    I'm not blaming you for being a True Believer, or putting you down. It's part of your character. You could no more change it than you could fly. My guess is that it's in your genes.

    But you should know that being a True Believer puts you at a serious disadvantage in any debate. It's hard for you to respect the other person's position and therefore, it's hard for the other person to respect yours. As a result, you get into barking matches and no one gives in. Ever. Nothing is accomplished, not even the exchange of views, since neither person is listening to the other.

    You do seem to have plenty of time to post and your posts are entertaining, but if you ever get busy with other things, you could accomplish about the same thing you do now by posting a single sentence: I'm NEM and you know what I think.

    I haven't been posting on this forum very long, but I've been on the board for awhile and I suspect you've heard all of this before. I feel like saying, to anyone new, "Oh, that's just NEM. Don't mind him."

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